IS there a logic behind feng Shui?? oR it was just superstitious?? Is it real??? Is there a science behind it?? Most importantly, Could u philosophize feng Shui???

I am so curious

believe got, no believe dun hab. haha simple and ez

it's said that feng shui is a form of psycho-physics(i don't know the term but this is what i remember)

basically it's the use of stuff around you to affect your psychology subconsciously.

Basically it is a very very expensive placebo.

Ask Joey Yap or Lillian Too

its about how the environment affects you.....
basically its common sense plus some superstition

expensive way to add clutter

it depends on you.

It's an ancient Chinese statistics about how things around you can affect you, but no official/systematic recording were really being written down, only observations.

For those who don't believe it, don't trash it until you have ample knowledge on reading and understanding ancient Chinese writings. Go learn it for yourself and see if you can understand it. I'm not fluent in ancient Chinese writings, but from what I understand, there are some truth behind it.

Nowadays people tend to bash Feng Shui simply because they don't understand it and lack of scientific proofs, but most importantly TOO MANY BLOODY LIARS CHEATING PEOPLE AROUND WITH HALF-ASS KNOWLEDGE IN FENG SHUI. Nuf said...

same like religion...also have people abusing it for their own agendas like those extremist.

wanna knoe about feng shui??go genting area..esp casino place...see a lot feng shui designed 2 eat all our $$$..u will see a lot mirror above casino & mirror everywhere...

got reason y fengshui can make us gamble until lose $$$ de..

The gambling system designed in casino is such that the banker always have higher odds. Therefore, overall banker will always win. This is nothing to do with fengshui or devil worship.

If need to depend on fengshui for casinos to make money then places like las vegas will be gone already.

Fengshui is more psychological than science and magic.

something that cause a magnetic field that can make someone more positive...eg.visiber

gambler are gambler because they dont understand odds, the house however have it all figure out, all the odds have been prearranged, of cause there is people will win big from time to time, but if they keep on playing the odds will take over and house will surely win.

the fengshui today is full of con man giving BS advice for large fee, there are some part fengshui that i believe work because it basiclly good design for house to face some direction to get the morning sun and have good air circulation, but most of the other stuff or just BS add in by con man to make money.

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Added on January 21, 2010, 9:30 pmcasino are design to keep you playing, the design will no make u lose money, the game itself will take all your money



This post has been edited by robertngo: Jan 21 2010, 09:30 PM

Yup agreed... Casino depends on higher odds to win customers

Customers who believe in fengsui in the end will still lose to casino

yeah, i'm really really interested to know as well.

nowadays even foreigner also learn feng shui. TV programme on feng shui, books/magazines on feng shui everywhere etc etc.

i'm sure it "may" work for someone right?

agreed with some of the forumers that alot of so called "feng shui sifu" BS around, hope that some forumers that experience "changes" through feng shui can share in this thread.

joey yap yes...

lilian? NEVER.... she makes buddhism and feng shui looked stupid

Feng Shui have been around for more than 5000 years.

As long as we are still living in this earth. Feng- (Wind) Shui (Water) is de most important element in human kind.

So it's not superstitious belief coz it's already Scientifically proven on how a Good Feng Shui changes on someone health and wealth.

If u guys really wanna know more, of course, hiring a Master will be expensive. BUT there are always a cheaper way, JUST buy a book a learn it by yourself slowly.

And yes, forget about LILIAN books...she is more focus on preaching feng shui.

Get those books from HK Famous Feng Shui master, Mr. So Man Foong or our local boy, Mr Joey Yap. They are more practically explain on how to improved one person fengshui.

Cheers and gong Xi Fa Cai

I do believe this... feng shui is just another way of looking at natural phenomenon... where science is another angle too....

I used to think feng shui was BS.. till I read about the four elements in Buddhism.... Earth, fire, water & wind

where earth is symbol of solid, inertia, weight, soft, hard etc

fire is heat, energy etc....

water is fluidity of things... (water, wind, blood, etc)

wind is movement of air

which scientific study can you provide to prove feng shui have anything other than placebo effect?

i always thought feng shui is based on the recommended place to build your house in ancient times

i.e, it must be at a place of good air circulation, feng (wind) as you dont have fan or air con then (and it can get hot in summer). it must also be at a place of easily available water from spring, river, lake, or well (shui) as they dont have modern piping, tanks, and pumps.

everything else is bs.

i will agree with that, it is basically a best practice for architecture in ancient china, which still can be applied today to make a more pleasant living condition. but then there is so much other stuff that are being added into feng shui that are being claimed to be able to change your luck or give you better health which have no fact to back up its claim.

I suggest u get a book from Master Joey Yap or Master So Man Foong to understand better on how they Scientifically proven.

any research paper by real scientist that can be refer to?

feng shui...my granny always practices things like 'how to place a certain items around the house'.

For me, I do not believe it...not that i'm disagreeing of its existence. Juz that, I've never got any benefit from it. Not just me, my entire family as well. We alwiz hope for some great fortunes, but still, i don't see any F430 in the garage.

If u're talking about health, my granny still has her diseases...

Safety? Uncle still involve in car accidents yo'.

Sry to say, but with all those things happen in my life, there're no way that i would believe FS.

Some1 gotto change me =D

scientifically proven is a big word. Just because someone claimed to have scientifically proven something doesn't mean it does get scientifically proven. It has to involves scientists acknowledging this proof. Which no FS masters has done.

FS is very much similar to religion. It's all about how convincing the master (preacher) is and how they can smartly link things together that is intangible and then saying smart things when it doesn't work. Just like how religion ask you to first believe in it for it to work. So when it doesn't work, it's your fault cause you did not believe in it. Cause when you already believe in it, you will not be doubting whether it work or not. See...

Pay attention to the bolded and enlarged word.

Random auntie from some random township showing random effects doesn't prove anything

Having accident and health problem is definitely cannot blame it all to feng shui.

BTW, i dont think u need someone to CHANGe you...believe it or not...it's all depend on individual.

Some Feng Shui is indeed can be based on probability statistic.

For eg. House in front of T-junction has no good Feng Shui.
As probability of a car accidental hit into the house is high based on the mentioned location.
So in this issue, it makes a lot of sense.

While some Feng Shui can lead to 'feel good' effect which can create some placebo effect as well.

Placebo effect actually can be very powerful one which very difficult to explain in word and details.

Just like confidence issue, if one is confidence doing a thing, generally one can perform the task better than without confidence even though one is having enough skill already. Just like in sport, when a player is more confidence, he can delivery 110% of the ability, while confidence low time, schoolboy error also can happen on professional player.

So placebo effect could be identical to the confidence issue mentioned.

citation please

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Added on February 25, 2010, 2:10 amyou can say that these are probably called common sense that feng shui adopt

This post has been edited by g r a p e k e y: Feb 25 2010, 02:13 AM

Houses in T-junction or with address no. 44 is all myth or urban legend. Just because all the horror story has been passed down through generations, people start to convinced it is real. But we as human being will still take it at caution even it we are non-believer. We will still avoid staying in t-junction houses because we are kiasu.

We someone shift into t-junction house, some bad accident happened and people blame it on the t-junction. But when accident happen to someone else in another house, maybe the blame is on the house number. People always have things to blame or praise. That's when fengshui comes in handy.

when you come to think of it, if a car is out of control it could have charge into any house nearby, why do we assume it is going to go straight ahead. the thing that prevent those that dont believe in feng shui but still avoid the house is because of the problem with selling the house later, alot of people will not want this house and thus reduce the price and/or take long time to sell.

human brain always try to find pattern and many time it see connection between to things that are just not related a all.

Yup.
No 44 is myth and hold not much ground. It is more about people 'feel good' factor or placebo effect. Feng Shui can have placebo effect on people as well.

But house at or infront of T-junction definitely has high probability being run into by a car. For eg. a car goes straight that break malfunction, then the probability the car will run into the house in front of T-junction is higher than the road side one.
But there is no guarantee the roadside house won't be run into by car, just the house infront of T-junction, or when car cornering time, the chance of accident is higher than ordinary straight road.
There is no guarantee the house in front of T-junction will run into by car as well. Just may be the probability is higher than the rest.

again, some fact to base your findings on. what you think is logical is not necessary true. some observation is required showing T-houses have higher accident date than non T-houses. while i dont doubt your logic, its just that
1. the care need to experience brake and/or steering failure;
2. this failure need to occur on a straight road leading to the house atthe junction
3. the driver cant control care properly to stop/evade

given that in most housing area, only residents will be traveling on the road, the speed is relatively slow, modern cars generally experience very few sudden mechanical faulure, etc etc.

it is likely that the accident rate of T houses are only a fraction of a percentage higher than non T-houses for most (a negligible value)

I've read through Feng Shui article in The Star commenting on current hot locations and explain why they are hot by scrutinizing their terrains/land (for eg, Bangsar.. and how the chi flows and made the place hot and desirable yada yada).

Why they only comment in such positive manner ONLY AFTER the place is successful?

Same goes for going into some rich man's house and then justifying his wealth by the way he arrange his furniture/renovate his house or its location. I bet there are many people with similar arrangements still struggling to strike a consolation prize in TOTO.

Same for mole reading too. There are rich aunties out there with "good" moles on their body/face, so some high-priestress of the "molereaderworld" said this justify their wealth and prosperity. And there might be equal number of poor divorced women with moles in similar area of the face/body.


This post has been edited by alanyuppie: Feb 25 2010, 04:57 PM

it's all about how convincing the person doing the talking. And how insecure the person listening.

BTW, the t-junction myth is not just about cars/lorries/motobikes strucking the house. It's also about people living in t-junction houses will get sick/accident/ill/bad luck and so on. This is the BS I am talking about.

Yes, I shared you view on this, but undeniable, in term of statistically, the rate of accident occur with T-house or house at corner is definitely higher than ordinary one, it could be fractionanl or negligible, but surely it is higher.

At cornering time, the rate is accident is definitely higher than driving straight, due to mis-control, poor judgement etc issue.

Ok, I only focus on the probability issue, the rest issue could be more about placebo effect I posted earlier.

Don't look down on placebo effect, it could influence individual quite significantly eventually affect a lot of issue afterwards.

FS1: Don't build your kitchen at the West

Explanation:
- Morning sunlight from the East is rather mild, and the heat will not spoil the food (In ancient time, the bacteria concept and its grow and its activity against temperature was unknown during the time), this observation of food against Sun movement was recorded. This statement holds true with or without refrigerator in mind.
- West is where the sun setting, heat accumulated throughout the day and the West spot is always the warmest, which is bad for food.

FS2: Build a house located at the North and facing South, and good to have a wall at the North

Explanation:
- This statement/observation is definitely recorded by people who lived in Northern Hemisphere. During winter time, snow and cold wind blows from the North, a wall built at the North would comes in handy here.
- Facing South means doors are good to be built at South, for the same reason above. Snow, cold wind blows into the house if the doors are built facing North. Inconvenience and bad for health too.

I came across these explanation from some articles on the subject. There are not many books referring to reasoning and scientific explanation on the subject nowadays.

My guess is, if someone publishes a book with this kind of explanation, Feng Shui master would have a hard time selling the concepts anymore. It has evolved from impacts of surrounding to human being towards superstitious on how they could impact your wealth, your love life, your health, your everything.....and without a need of explaining why.

Do this, or buy this crystal, whatever you dream of will come true. You only need to pay a small amount to get what you wish for.....how wonderful the deal is.....

For me, Believe in Feng Shui, yes.....Believe in Feng Shui master...probably not.

please understand the meaning of "negligible" before saying surely is higher. also there is no proper study showing that T-houses experiences more accident than non T-house

the two example are elementary feng shui that help to make a better house to live in but today feng shui master dont focus on these, they spend alot of time focus on placing stuff arround the house to improve your luck. out of the many client there is sure some that will have improvement in their health or business after doing what they told and these example will be used to sell more of their service and product. those client that have no improvement will not be mentioned.

So its nothing but a game of BIG/SMALL.

When fengshui service are rendered to let's say 100 household, 50% chances there will be certain "sort" of improvement afterwards (some winning lottery,some getting promotion/raise,health improved). These owners will live-by-fengshui-and-die-by-it, hence helping in promotion. The other 50% might not notice improvement at all, worse even (retrenced,feeling unwell often). Some fengshui master will take the chance to push even more fixes (at a "bigger" price). eventually fate has it, 50% of these bad-luckers might have a +ve turn around in some point of their life, they will be converted yet again into live-by-fengshui-and-die-by-it and advocates this method.


Even without feng shui, people's live changes for better or worse at certain point of their lives (due to fate/luck, their own effort,common sense etc). There are many "scam" to bank in on this certainty and profit hugely from it (same like magic rocks with magnetic healing power/water with extra health boosting multiple disease curing properties)

If you read between the line, you would understand my take on this subject:

"It has evolved from impacts of surrounding to human being towards superstitious on how they could impact your wealth, your love life, your health, your everything.....and without a need of explaining why.
Do this, or buy this crystal, whatever you dream of will come true. You only need to pay a small amount to get what you wish for.....how wonderful the deal is.....
For me, Believe in Feng Shui, yes.....Believe in Feng Shui master...probably not"

I am not here to promote/demote FS, I am saying it has evolved from a simpler agriculture society where sun, rivers and land could impact the productivity to money, love, health, success nowadays.

My view is instead of saying Feng Shui master could be a big fat liar and all, why not look at one's own greed, desperately wanting to full fill wishes in fastest way, and do whatever it takes to full fill those dreams.

Another way of looking at these masters is they are like a motivator who motivates the seekers that their life will improve shortly, with a price to pay of course.

Whether we realize it or not, we tend to look for a better location to park our cars, or even cinema seat. Some people goes further and hires master to provide suggestion on their business premises, houses, renovation plan and all. This is the privilege that everyone can have.

for me its just superstitious believe
nothing more than that
one can say its been around for hundreds/thousands of years but it who cares
coincidence is the words here
if feng shui works people say "waa, its really true..etc"
if it doesnt everybody keep silence
people saw it that way because they want to saw it that way

You consult 10 Feng Shui masters on the same house same person living and you can get 10 distinct Feng Shui advice.

Got... 另可信其有

yes
this is my point, but why society still believe in this shit?

Because, much like everything else in the world, it has been perverted so badly from its original form that its not recognizable anymore. Purely for the sake of none other than : money.

$$$



If they so pro why dun make themself wealthy in the first place?

Remember Nina Wong's case?
Her Feng Shui master wanna claim her inheritence against CHARITY

So desperate for money meh....


The point is.... say you're a Feng Shui Master, you consulted 100 people, no need all FARTARD(aka become filthy rich), just 1 turn rich which with or without your advice will still become rich, and he share some portion of wealth with you because he thought you made him fartard.

This is the way it works IMHO.

in terms of desperate for money, yes. There are a lot of people who are desperate for money and will do anything including kidnap and murder to get them. You do not understand why because I am assuming you were brought up in a nice environment where money has not being an issue.

There are people out there who were brought up in such harsh environment that you could never imagine.

agree that if feng shui is so powerful those so called master no need to waste time promote like hell and some even try different way to cheat people money. they could just find a auspicious day, time, position, etc and go visit uncle lim place to get $$$$.

maybe one can view feng shui as something that can "improve" luck/health/higher chances of getting something u want.

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Added on March 4, 2010, 11:48 pmanyway, i want to ask about Bazi, is it worth to pay ppl money to understand out own Bazi? to understand our future, destiny....

altho this is part of fengshui but i think this should be more "believable"

it's something like astrology right? thanks

This post has been edited by shakiraa: Mar 4 2010, 11:48 PM

how is astrology/bazi/palm reading/face reading/bone groping/entrail reading/tea leave reading/tulang nujum/etc more believable than feng shui?

This is just based on experience. Each person is brought up in their own unique environment and surroundings. When one is exposed to let's say bazi a lot during his/her childhood, then he will tend to think bazi is more believable than something new like tea leave reading.

The thing is, if you believe in something like bazi why won't you believe in fengshui? Both are based on non-tangible readings that tell you something about nothing. That is just down right contradicting.

fengshui comes from taoism. It's strongly related with (yi jing)易经 and till now not much had come really close to unfold it's mystery. The core and element of it's system way too hard.
If a fengshui fella tells u how great and good his fengshui predictions and if he knows nothing about yi jing or he is partially read on it u could be vary of such fella.
Most fengshui fellas in Malaysia only possess a few trick and tries to earn a living through it. They are nv taugh the right way and most of them learn through by studying books. No matter how talented or clever they are, they are only able to get the concept of fengshui but nv truly know what's the core. That's y most pple believe fengshui is fake because they got the wrong pple to do it for them.
Getting the wrong pple to do fengshui could only mean two possibility.
If ur lucky nothing changes and u can say it's fake which is good.
If you are really unlucky, instead of making you lucky it will spells the opposite. It could also possibly create a curse for your whole generation line.

This post has been edited by darkskies: Mar 7 2010, 02:08 PM

For personal reason, i believe feng shui very much. But do not blame everything on feng shui.

If you say its non-existantial, you're like saying Chinese traditional medicine is a lie. You're insulting 5000years of wisdom.

traditional medicine (unlike fengshui) is often testable and researchable. plenty of scientific test has been done on some traditional medicine. try doing that to fengshui.

what's wrong in insultingquestioning 5000years of wisdom is they are wrong or does not apply to current condition? Just because something is dated back to few thousand years, we must believe it's true?

If we do not ask questions, you think society will improve to be what it is now?


This post has been edited by abubin: Mar 11 2010, 12:38 PM

If u trsut it, its there. If U dun, then u doesnt exist.

Don't be lame. This has been quote thousand of years. Just because it has been used thousand of years, does not means it's correct. This is PhD thread. You want to quote this, go to religion section.

I trust you will be billionaire one day. Then you will be. Let me know when the day come.

This post has been edited by abubin: Mar 11 2010, 01:12 PM

Feng Shui is used during the ancient days, which similar to Interior/Home Designer in the modern worlds

This post has been edited by arthurlwf: Mar 11 2010, 02:33 PM

right, one reason for chinese medicine is still going strong is that there is quite a lot of testing being done on them in scientific ways. the traditional medicine doctor can point to scientific research on their herb healing property, bu fengshui cannot made the same claim.

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Added on March 11, 2010, 4:31 pmthen astrology must be true since it is also 5000 years of wisdom?

This post has been edited by robertngo: Mar 11 2010, 04:31 PM

i think traditional medicine and feng shui is totally diff things
traditional med ok...ancient ppl may use some plant or herb but they no nothing about how it works..whats the scientific explaination yadayada
but feng shui is totally rubbish superstitious believe

Lets put it in other terms. What about the kinetic theory in physics? What the heck is an atom? Why must it look the way it is? Even now we'r doing classical physics based on these assumptions because it cant be proven wrong.

Same goes for fengshui, in a way. Nobody has the right to claim it dysfunctional as it's something that can't be proven, right or wrong. The basis is there. We follow it. You tap into its potential, you prosper. It's just that these days there are just too many conmen twisting the facts of fengshui for their personal gain.

that the thing, where is the basis? is that basis testable?

and no, if you think an atom/electron is a very tiny sphere, you have not studied enough. that sphere model is a simplified version that is shown/proven to work at macro levels. rest is in quantum mechanics.

my personal peeve is when people extrapolate their lack of knowledge onto science and make it look like existing science facts is false. when it is proven to be false the science community will the the 1st to publish an addendum, thank you very much.

For me, I think strategic planning is of course necessary and real. As a scout, when you set up camp, you make sure there are no dead trees around you, the earth beneath you is solid, and flat, and doesn't look like a dry stream bed,etc. These are Real threats, and no brainers to obey.

The explanatory form of Feng Xui however seems to be picking on issues that might not be so critical. It's like saying radiation from electrical appliances will effect your health. But we didn't realise that the amount of radiation is actually unsubstantial, and that we also get radiation from our environment naturally.

When it comes to statistics, any statistician or mathematician will always tell you the numbers never lie. When you hear they say statistics in Feng Xui, it's usually just that, but where are the numbers? How was the sampling done? If you go around and ask all those with pak koas on their houses, surely almost all of them will tell you that Feng Xui is real.

If however the claims are true, then you'd see a trend even now; Houses that face West will see continuous quarrelling, robbery, and misfortune. But we don't, so surely there is something not right about the claimed "statistics".

Explanations to Feng Xui? Sure, anybody can imagine up an explanation, but that doesn't mean that something is true. We must ask ourselves, how believable are the explanations, and how does it fair in the real world?

The problem with Feng Xui is, it does not need to explain itself, any d***, Tom, Joey Yap or Lilian To, can claim that because Venus is align with Mars that good luck will come to you because the male and female elements are balanced. And you will get all worked up about their "Revelations".

How many of you would dare to sleep in a hotel with the mirrors facing you? Do you have a hard time sleeping because of that? You see, it actual harms your quality of life, not help it.


Confidence is when you know what you're doing, if you have confidence, simply because of your horoscope, then that's ridiculous and potentially harmful too.

I believe with Feng Xui you don't gain confidence... you gain peace of mind, from imaginary "bad luck" which they would have you believe.

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Added on July 27, 2010, 1:54 pmSorry, since it was mentioned, I had to touch on it too.

The truth about casinos

Even if your odds are exactly as good as the house.

Let me ask you, do people go in, with a fixed number of bets to be placed?

No, they keep playing until either they loose their limit, or they get tired.

Just imagine, what are the odds that you keep winning until you're tired?
Those are the few good stories.. The other players are all losers.

It's great to be the house!!




This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 27 2010, 01:54 PM

Trad med/Feng shui/Wu shu/fortunetelling is co-related. They came frm the same root*of course malaysian younger generation doesn't know*.
If you are a non chinese then there is nothing to blame about.But for a chinese this is indeed serious.
There are claims that can't be proof and proof that can't be experimented/explained/judged/researched upon in scientific way.
Many would have thought that it's just based on superstitious or stories.
When times of trouble came, many seeks to believe and start playing around with the vase or table(even the fridge!) by repositioning over and over again.
Of course this isn't fengshui. It's just some silly assumption that these folks nv learned and tried to do it their way.

I have no prejudice against anything that's nv proof by scientific way.
But to jump into conclusion and call it rubbish only proof that u've not come close enough to understand.

5000 years of wisdom? Or 100 years of ONE man's wisdom being repeated 50 times?

How is it a serious problem if I don't care about these things?

Another bullshit idea together with the stupid 'need' for Chinese to know Mandarin

U can don't write your chinese name if u think it's bullshyt.

Yes... And I can hear the "I love the main land" song being sung.

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Added on July 28, 2010, 8:57 amLet's talk origins, and the people who had the BEST chinese medicine of the time...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elixir_of_life

Elixir of life anybody?

If we'd still be following some traditional medicine, we'd be pissing out gold, and vomiting blood, and we'd still be blaming 'heatiness'.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 28 2010, 09:00 AM

How are the corelated? What is this common root?

It comes frm the same book and through one source.
It's rewritten by more then over hundred of wisdom and experience.
Of course folks that are educated through the western way could nv understood or perhaps get close enough to see it. Even PHDs are unable to unravel the fact of this book.Name of the book called 易經 and it's been renamed this way in the modern days.
*DON'T slap me with your wiki fact.
*DON'T say out topic because it's the source.
*TELL me how much u know if u are confident to go into details of it.
*If you don't know don't say bullshyt because it makes u look ignorant.
*As i say don't slap out the history timeline because it's another ignorant thing to do.

Alot are just assuming everything through the western culture and knowledge based on accumulated theories from westerners too.

As someone prev mentioned before, there's a basis. This basis can never be applied through westerner's formula or theories. If u guys think that u could explain or judge through ur wikifacts/westerner's view then u are wrong.

Is that how traditional wisdom is derived? You've proven why it's unreliable.

First you describe it as Wiki "FACTS" because you know they are right.
then you ask us to reveal the details of this "chinese wisdom" you subscribe to; we could name you more, but none that you would approve.

It's like a hen who blames the cock for not laying eggs.

If you really know something show it. Don't make empty assertions that your words are right over others.

Give your supporting points, and see how it stands against logic.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 28 2010, 09:42 AM

Y should i proof to u. It just run in circle because everything is debatable. Most choose to stick to their western view so y should i go into this.

U can provoke/entice me into writing facts out to proof that wiki had limited info about it. I won't elaborate it because there's no point.

How well do u insert this phrase "hen blame cock for not laying eggs" to describe my explaination.

the is not western view or western culture, during the same time of the I Ching, the western world also have all kind of superstition that claim to know the working of the natural world, but they are wrong and so is I Ching . 500 years ago when we dont know much about the natural world there may be a place for these kind of book to provide people with guidance for what they see are happening in the world, but now modern science have proven to be the best way for us to understand the natural world, there is no room for such superstition.

I insert it pretty well mine you.

You are telling us, that there is another school of knowledge which we do not know, but you are well versed in. You are asking us to quote from that school of knowledge which you know we don't know, or at least whatever we think we know, you will say it isn't what you had in mind.

You have just set a trap, for us that we can never answer. (Asking a cock to lay eggs)

Whereas who else better to prove an assertion than the person himself? The claimer that Traditional Chinese Wisdom is true, realistic, and applies to the real world? (The hen should do it)

Now on the other hand, you're agreeing that whatever you say, won't stand a chance against logic. You're saying that you'll make more assertions, and we'll shoot it down making it pointless.

I'm here with an open mind, if you can find something which can't be dismissed. Then you're right.

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Added on July 28, 2010, 10:49 amIt's not only in Malaysia. China has lots of poor folks. Only those in major cities are well to do.

If you can identify which person is a true master. Lets take a random sample, of one of his new clients and see if his luck improves.

Who says it's unprovable? or unable to use modern scientific methods?

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 28 2010, 10:50 AM

Darkskies,
Tell me which part of 易经 refers to feng shui, whch part refers to martial arts, fortune telling and traditional chinese medicine.

Feng shui is about designing the place in away that affects your mind
Every home you go to gives you a different feelign right?
So the design affects your mind and your mindset determines your success
not so much of luck in my opinion

I know what you mean about time lines. You're saying that the I-Ching came later than the Qin Dynasty. But who cares about timeline... I'm refering to the source of where traditional Chinese believes come from. (As you can see, I was not talking about the I-Ching in particular.) The I-Ching comes from this same form of reasoning. The same reasoning that you are displaying.

JR Tolkien wrote a book called The Lord of the Rings, you argue that it can't possibly be true, because from all the fairy tales no one has ever found remains of elves or giants. And a fan rebuked, "there are no Giants in LOTR you dumbass!!" thus LOTR must be true.

You can say that others do not know the I-Ching, and critisize them for being ignorant. But it's silly to call people ignorant expecting people to know something that you do not reveal. It's like a magician who refuses to let people see what he has inside his box, then calling them dumb for not believing that he has magically made the rabbit in it dissapear.

Show us, evidence that the I-Ching is indeed wise.

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Added on July 28, 2010, 1:58 pmTrue!

True!

True that's what it may hope to achieve.
But there is no proof that it is effective in the way it describes.


This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 28 2010, 02:11 PM

Dear all,

While we are on the topic. I've got a Question about Feng Shui.

Houses facing west is bad, some say because of the afternoon sun. What if it is facing South East, and it is a corner lot, so the afternoon sun still hits it on the sides. Is this acceptable or not?

Thanks.

Feng Shui? Look at the bank accounts of the Feng Shui consultants. That's proof of Feng Shui's effectiveness.

House facing direction have a lot of explanations. Some say facing sun too much, you get too much yang energy. Burn your luck and so on. But in real fengshui world, it is not about facing sun or not. It is facing direction derived from eight mansion. This eight mansion actually means the eight direction of the compass. Each year, the different direction will yield different luck. So, one year you are having great luck does not mean forever. On top of that yearly luck, there will also be luck for the next 20 years. This is derived from flying star of fengshui if not mistaken. From this school, it says if you house face certain direction, it will yield certain luck that last for 20 years. There are also more schools of teaching to apply which end up you get a lot of complexity where one says good luck and another says bad luck for a particular day, month or year.

That is why when you have bad luck in that house or room, there are always faults that can be found. Since it is so subjective, the fengshui master will calculate this and that and in the end, there will always be a reason why the RM5000 crystal you bought doesn't work. But when something good happened, the fengshui will take the credit. You did the right thing placing the crystal there that bring you good fortune and blah blah blah.

That is why I don't believe in all these fengshui, astrology, religion mumbojumbo. It's all clever marketing with loophole that cannot be proven.

It only proves it is popular, Frags. Effectiveness is still very subjective.

I think Frags was just being sarcastic.

Thanks abu bin for that explanation, that makes sense.

@Robertngo
Noone had even proof it wrong n "U" jumped into conclusion? Noone know? u think 500 yrs ago everyone are pratically idiot?
Yes superstition in western's view as i said.


@TheDoer
Yea i've notice ur insert seems to be drowning u too . U think that i'm setting a trap for you but yet u feel that i'm preventing u from riding on your own school of knowledge frm googling and wiki on my statements. This is what western view about. To shut a statement down, logic/proof/evidence if not must be false. To try to proof fengshui is equivalent to touching into religion matters. If u think religion is however superstitious shyt then go ahead with your western views.

@Faceless
U thought this is bedtime storybook ? Which chapter the prince rescue the princess and live heavily after again?

@TheDoer2again
Timelines proof nothing because "I-Ching" wasn't originally named that way. It's renamed shortly after what u googled up on.
Nope u didnt catch my phrase properly and u tried to twist what i speak and rewrote on your own understanding.
To clear up your misunderstanding,
-I mentioned that it's serious for younger chinese generation not to know it and not ignorant*don't twist what i'm saying*
-If serious to u = ignorant on the dictionary then there's something wrong with your understanding.
-I did however mentioned that "If u do not know don't say bullshyt because it makes u look ignorant.
*U've tapped the meaning wrongly with combination that i've nv stated on*
What's wrong with you ?
Ride on the google and wiki again?
Is this open mind or u are wild bashing?
I've wrote this few times again-> Use scientic formula to proof fengshui is wrong will yield no result.
Have they been proven wrong?
Of course it's wrong because they are applying the wrong formula.
Using the wrong formula to proof something is wrong of course will yield positive results that it is 100% wrong.

There's no 5000bucks makes u lucky forever. Just FYI, there are many fengshui swindlers in malaysia and china. But every swindler knows a trick or two up their sleeve. They do not know much but only know very minimal. Enough to con pple but also enough to kill pple when they applied the wrong method. Fengshui is a passive thing and it can nv be proof or experience instantly like magic. It'll accumulate over the time like how u get summons over time and not paying them.

Fengshui are exaggerated in dramas,series and movies. They are also packaged, marketed and resold into high value. These are just scams. Objects can never do much effect but it's the land itself that plays the most important part. There are not much remarkable land nowadays to pratice fengshui correctly because they are already bought off by many wealthy folks and officials who choose to believe in it. Fengshui doesnt take all the credit, it's the people who chose to believe in it and succeed ,give credits to it. It's not an object, it can never be formulated or sum up with theory.

Most of these are "formulated" in I-Ching as a method to understand the co-relation of the surrounding and every living things.Most of these are cycles which someone think is stupid, it's repeatedly done over centuries. What we don't understand is that ,we been repeating the same cycle all the while,which actually introduce "the cycle". There's more to elaborate on further but i'm very tired to go into details. You guys can read up and weighed the importance. If u guys can google and express fluently in ur understanding, y not try go into it and understand what went wrong.

As i said before if u guys want to continue on bashing u guys can do it. It helps release ur stress and boredom but u won't gain any achievement.

Then how come so many guai lous who don't know anything about feng shui and yet they are still superior in the corporate world?

i think 500 years ago people are just as smart as today people but they dont have the same amount of education, information, and knowledge that are available to us. without the scientific model to understand the natural world, all culture have their superstition and myth that try to give people answer of what they see in nature mean.

since today we have a superior way to understanding nature, to rely instead on ancient superstition will be stupid. china 600 years ago was the most rich and advance country in the world but it fence itself off from the rest of the world and watch as the industrial revolution made the european which been lagging behind china for thousand of year to surge ahead and china was powerless to stop the humiliation by the superior battleship that the european have.


the resurgence of china in the last century is not due to some ancient sacred knowledge, but in accepting new idea, in science and industry.

have u checked whether is guai lou or chinese dominating the economy now?
Check Asus,MSI,GiGabyte,Palit,HTC is under which country ^.^.
Check also all of the products u use made in ?


Softwares and chips might be states too but who manufactures the board these days ^.^

Come'on !There's no relantionship at all. It doesnt mean u don't know fengshui u must be poor.
Infact i nv stated that in my statement.
I've pointed out don't think it is bullshyt because science proof it's superstitious.
Simple as that. If still there is any complication between understanding. Go read up. Googling and wiki is wrong but using it to disapprove something is a very wrong thing to do.

Never take a ride on a stranger's car if u think it's the same destination. It'll lead to unexpected consequences.
Strangers will always smile and will nv show what they do ^.^

I just said effectiveness. I didn't say effectiveness in doing what. Clearly what I meant here is Feng Shui's effectiveness in fattening the wallet of feng shui consultants.....VERY effective.

Lol, the guai lohs are still at the top of the pile now. People even speculate loosely that it will probably lasts for another 150 years, but China has its own problems now.