For me, I think strategic planning is of course necessary and real. As a scout, when you set up camp, you make sure there are no dead trees around you, the earth beneath you is solid, and flat, and doesn't look like a dry stream bed,etc. These are Real threats, and no brainers to obey.

The explanatory form of Feng Xui however seems to be picking on issues that might not be so critical. It's like saying radiation from electrical appliances will effect your health. But we didn't realise that the amount of radiation is actually unsubstantial, and that we also get radiation from our environment naturally.

When it comes to statistics, any statistician or mathematician will always tell you the numbers never lie. When you hear they say statistics in Feng Xui, it's usually just that, but where are the numbers? How was the sampling done? If you go around and ask all those with pak koas on their houses, surely almost all of them will tell you that Feng Xui is real.

If however the claims are true, then you'd see a trend even now; Houses that face West will see continuous quarrelling, robbery, and misfortune. But we don't, so surely there is something not right about the claimed "statistics".

Explanations to Feng Xui? Sure, anybody can imagine up an explanation, but that doesn't mean that something is true. We must ask ourselves, how believable are the explanations, and how does it fair in the real world?

The problem with Feng Xui is, it does not need to explain itself, any d***, Tom, Joey Yap or Lilian To, can claim that because Venus is align with Mars that good luck will come to you because the male and female elements are balanced. And you will get all worked up about their "Revelations".

How many of you would dare to sleep in a hotel with the mirrors facing you? Do you have a hard time sleeping because of that? You see, it actual harms your quality of life, not help it.


Confidence is when you know what you're doing, if you have confidence, simply because of your horoscope, then that's ridiculous and potentially harmful too.

I believe with Feng Xui you don't gain confidence... you gain peace of mind, from imaginary "bad luck" which they would have you believe.

---

Added on July 27, 2010, 1:54 pmSorry, since it was mentioned, I had to touch on it too.

The truth about casinos

Even if your odds are exactly as good as the house.

Let me ask you, do people go in, with a fixed number of bets to be placed?

No, they keep playing until either they loose their limit, or they get tired.

Just imagine, what are the odds that you keep winning until you're tired?
Those are the few good stories.. The other players are all losers.

It's great to be the house!!




This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 27 2010, 01:54 PM

Yes... And I can hear the "I love the main land" song being sung.

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Added on July 28, 2010, 8:57 amLet's talk origins, and the people who had the BEST chinese medicine of the time...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elixir_of_life

Elixir of life anybody?

If we'd still be following some traditional medicine, we'd be pissing out gold, and vomiting blood, and we'd still be blaming 'heatiness'.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 28 2010, 09:00 AM

Is that how traditional wisdom is derived? You've proven why it's unreliable.

First you describe it as Wiki "FACTS" because you know they are right.
then you ask us to reveal the details of this "chinese wisdom" you subscribe to; we could name you more, but none that you would approve.

It's like a hen who blames the cock for not laying eggs.

If you really know something show it. Don't make empty assertions that your words are right over others.

Give your supporting points, and see how it stands against logic.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 28 2010, 09:42 AM

I insert it pretty well mine you.

You are telling us, that there is another school of knowledge which we do not know, but you are well versed in. You are asking us to quote from that school of knowledge which you know we don't know, or at least whatever we think we know, you will say it isn't what you had in mind.

You have just set a trap, for us that we can never answer. (Asking a cock to lay eggs)

Whereas who else better to prove an assertion than the person himself? The claimer that Traditional Chinese Wisdom is true, realistic, and applies to the real world? (The hen should do it)

Now on the other hand, you're agreeing that whatever you say, won't stand a chance against logic. You're saying that you'll make more assertions, and we'll shoot it down making it pointless.

I'm here with an open mind, if you can find something which can't be dismissed. Then you're right.

---

Added on July 28, 2010, 10:49 amIt's not only in Malaysia. China has lots of poor folks. Only those in major cities are well to do.

If you can identify which person is a true master. Lets take a random sample, of one of his new clients and see if his luck improves.

Who says it's unprovable? or unable to use modern scientific methods?

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 28 2010, 10:50 AM

I know what you mean about time lines. You're saying that the I-Ching came later than the Qin Dynasty. But who cares about timeline... I'm refering to the source of where traditional Chinese believes come from. (As you can see, I was not talking about the I-Ching in particular.) The I-Ching comes from this same form of reasoning. The same reasoning that you are displaying.

JR Tolkien wrote a book called The Lord of the Rings, you argue that it can't possibly be true, because from all the fairy tales no one has ever found remains of elves or giants. And a fan rebuked, "there are no Giants in LOTR you dumbass!!" thus LOTR must be true.

You can say that others do not know the I-Ching, and critisize them for being ignorant. But it's silly to call people ignorant expecting people to know something that you do not reveal. It's like a magician who refuses to let people see what he has inside his box, then calling them dumb for not believing that he has magically made the rabbit in it dissapear.

Show us, evidence that the I-Ching is indeed wise.

---

Added on July 28, 2010, 1:58 pmTrue!

True!

True that's what it may hope to achieve.
But there is no proof that it is effective in the way it describes.


This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 28 2010, 02:11 PM

Dear all,

While we are on the topic. I've got a Question about Feng Shui.

Houses facing west is bad, some say because of the afternoon sun. What if it is facing South East, and it is a corner lot, so the afternoon sun still hits it on the sides. Is this acceptable or not?

Thanks.

I think Frags was just being sarcastic.

Thanks abu bin for that explanation, that makes sense.

And how can anyone prove it wrong? If they do, people like you back then, will just say they aren't the REAL Feng Shui masters. And heck, it's not just about the people 500 years ago, even today there are people who would believe something, even if you point out that it's wrong. case in point Feng Xui.


I was being nice, I'd sooner think you've wilfully set a clever trap for me, then you have NO points to backup your claims,and in a desperate hope to win, point the finger back at your opponent.

This is what you said previously.
darkskies,Jul 28 2010, 09:21 AM
western way could nv understood or perhaps get close enough to see it. Even PHDs are unable to unravel the fact of this book.Name of the book called 易經 and it's been renamed this way in the modern days.

*DON'T slap me with your wiki fact.

This basis can never be applied through westerner's formula or theories. If u guys think that u could explain or judge through ur wikifacts/westerner's view then u are wrong.


So how do you expect us to continue googling to explain it to you? You've already said it's all wrong no matter what we google|wiki, naturally in order for us to continue the topic, you have to lay out why you say traditional chinese wisdom is true. Because I could eloquently point to you why it is wrong, and you'd just say it does not apply and that we do not know enough of it to argue; conveniently you failed to bring any supporting points to your case.


That's the funniest thing to say. It's not a western view. Everybody does it in their daily lives. To say it does not, proves why people still believe in things that don't work.

Let me ask you, if I told you i've seen aliens landing on earth would you say it is true or false? Immediately you'd think "show me proof" am I right? If I can't present you the evidence, naturally you'd think I'm wrong. Isn't that right? Or do you start preparing for an extraterrestrial visit?

Are you saying that only in western courts need proof/evidence to prosecute someone?

If you're telling me that only westerners use this form of logic, then you've just made fun of our Traditional Chinese Wisdom. You're saying ancient chinese believe "Anything".


You'd be surprised, Westerners are a religious lot. Even on the american bill it says in God we Trust. You're just going to shut off discussion, by saying it is in par, and having the same exclusive status as religion, and should not be questioned? That probably happen back then in China.

You're right, if someone believes in something, no matter what you tell them, they will continue believing in it. You can tell them, there's no ghost under your bed, but children will still be afraid. But when someone, does not recognize that something is an irrational belief and not a fact. Then that's a serious matter. We'd soon be seeing "In Feng Shui we trust" on our bills.

You see what I mean by trap? I was looking over and over again, why you said
darkskies,Jul 28 2010, 09:21 AM
*As i say don't slap out the history timeline because it's another ignorant thing to do.
And that was the only thing I could find that was relevant. This is why you should state your views clearly. As I said, Hen asking Rooster to lay eggs.

Wah... Please look carefully at the quote that I replied to:
darkskies,Jul 28 2010, 09:21 AM
*As i say don't slap out the history timeline because it's another ignorant thing to do.
You were the one who used the word.

Please look at the Definition of Ignorant
http://www.ask.com/web?qsrc=2990&o=0&l=dir&q=define+ignorant
ignorant - Definition [ĭǵnər-ənt]
(adj.) Lacking education or knowledge.
(adj.) Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant…
(adj.) Unaware or uninformed.
I was not refering to you saying that "it's serious for younger chinese generation not to know it " but still yes, that does mean they are ignorant, why are you finding fault with the word?

I was just about to ask you the same Question.

Riding on your mystical I-Ching dragon again? ( I hate personal attacks... but you started it)

Ya, back at you.

You've not given me anything to prove wrong. I just know that the whole claim on Feng Xui is bogus, because it's a bizarre claim that doesn't seem right. (see my alien's visit earth example)

The onus is on you to prove that it works, not others to prove that it does not work.

Ya sure, tell me what is the correct formula. I'm still waiting.
But then you do realise that logic is the same no matter what you apply it on (see my example above on how ppl are prosecuted in court)? You're formula have to counter what we currently know in order for it to prove it to work.

For example, the elixir of life contains poisons, such as arsenic, unless you can show us and prove to us that a certain ingredient in it can counter react the poison and make your life longer, then naturally who would drink it?

Likewise with Feng Shui, if it seems illogical, you have to use what ever I-Ching or chinese formula to prove that it works. Alas the formula has to be logical also.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 29 2010, 10:00 AM

You're being flippant. First you say you're not stopping me from googling, then you're disapproving of me googling, but I have not done any Googling, or Wiki since your first disapproval. You don't seem to read carefully when you reply other's posts.

You say to talk on my own experience. I am... (In my experience BS is determine by the facts shown, you have given me nothing but continue to say you are right, and that in itself is BS) I am waiting for yours own experience. You're making empty claims that logic and science can't disprove but you have yet to show me which ones... I've been waiting for God knows how many posts.

Your concept of Western 'Bullshyt' vs Chinese Traditional Wisdom FAILS. because as I pointed out, it's all based on 'logic', if you don't use logic in determining what is right and what is wrong... then what the heck do you use (a pair of dice)? There's a word for not using logic and it's called, irrational and illogical.

Lol, I wasn't heated up when u said I wildly bash. I just said the same can be said about you. If you wish to say I ride on google or wiki, then I say you're riding on some mystical fantasy. Why not?

Cancelled

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 29 2010, 02:45 PM

Actually, I have a family Feng Shui master. He has 3rd and 4th eye too, one is infront another is at the back of his head. He can see both evil spirits and how the flow of the earth and how things will happen in future.

He has good knowledge in I-Ching, and he uses it and his powers, to assist those who seek for his help. He is of course the most wise, and true master in this art. He even has a magical invisible unicorn which he calls to his aid, when the evil spirits are too strong. His magical unicorn brings luck to the houses which the master bless.

My family have shifted some stuff in the house, followed his rice and taufu diet, and practiced some Taiqi that he taught us. Because of that, I am so lucky as to have a job, and my health, unlike many other ppl.

The only problem is I have been having some headaches lately and the master says it's because of some people on the net whose Energy is interfering with mine.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 29 2010, 04:06 PM

With anything in this world it's really simple. Either you're shown

How it works.
or
That it works.

otherwise how would any sane person believe it?

People all know this concept and automatically apply it in their daily lives, until it touches on their personal belief: Be it religion, feng shui, get rich quick schemes, gambling or any other baseless believes.

"It cannot be proven by modern methods, so I can't show you how or that it works." That just doesn't cut it.
If that were the case, I'd tell you that I can grow your money. Don't ask me how, you won't understand it even if I told you, just give it to me, and I'll give you what you've made when it comes.

---

Added on July 30, 2010, 9:38 amYou might ask, so what's wrong with believing in Feng Shui if it doesn't work?

- Neighbourhood aunties tell you that you can't do this, you can't do that.
It's your off day, but you can't move houses, you'll have to wait for an auspicious day.

- Instead of designing your home in a way that you feel comfortable with, you are required to make it in a way that you feel uneasy with, ironically for the purpose of improving your well being.

- It is an unnecessary added fear factor. You already have to fend of criminals, conman, and natural disasters in your daily lives, now you'll have to also worry about unseen forces which you don't even know whether it's real.

- You waste time & money, to invest in counter measures

- Rules become confusing, and we become the laughing stock of foreigners. Floor 3B? seriously?

- Wasted effort- some perfectly good houses are unable to be sold, because nobody dares to buy it. So you don't care about Feng Shui, but when you buy, you'll still need to consider whether you're able to sell it off in future, alas you cannot.

- Wasted man power- brilliant minds, could spend their effort on other things like doctors, teachers, or farmers, instead they are wasting their time as Feng Shui Consultants and Feng Shui Accessories businessmen.

- A safe haven for Con men to reside in. It's difficult to pretend to be a doctor because what you do can be scrutinized by the rest of the medical community. If you're a self proclaimed Feng Shui expert, it's your word against theirs.

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Added on July 30, 2010, 9:53 amWhat people should really worry about is the actual and realistic issues of the property.

Instead of following strange vague rules. You should instead ask yourselves, if I were to live here for the next few years, what will effect me?

Instead of worrying about, the nearby graveyard, you should be concerned about, the crime rate of that area (the real ghost. lol).

How far is the house from food source, protection, family, work, transport.

If you do not consider this, no matter how big your pak koa is, or what mountain is behind your house, you're life will not be as smooth as you'd like.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Jul 30 2010, 10:03 AM

hum... I think there's a confusion, that everything that can be furnish with an explanation must be true, and applicable in all cases.

A boy comes late to school again, and he give the teacher the same excuse, "stomach ache".
Without verifying, the teacher accepts his excuse.

Why not?

Stomach ache = come late to school, makes perfect sense what?

Same goes to all the explanations given. Sure, over heat no good. wind make u cold. cold not good.

But do we actually put these ideas to perspective and how do they actually play in real life?

Have we considered that some stuff are just symbolic? Water is symbolic of wealth. Collecting wealth is good.
How does that make having lots of water infront of your house being good? You could breed mosquitoes or drown in your own wealth.

Flying is dangerous, a single plane crash can end your life in an instant. Sure, but have you looked at the statistics? You would sooner die from a car crash than a plane crash.

Wind, water, fire, earth, wood. Sure all these exist. You can call them elements if you like, but a "Law"?? Laws need to be proven.

example: numbers exist. (elements)

Does that mean that 1+1=3? (Feng Xui)
Is there a law to prove that this is correct?
I can explain it, no prob. Everything in this world, when united creates something new (Explanations in feng xui). There, does that mean I have invented a "Law" that supercedes addition?

With regards to Car crashing into your house at a junction, I use to believe that that is the best and most logical aspect of feng xui. But then again, are we just accomodating/finding explanation to something which is a make belief?

Living at a junction maybe bad despite the Feng Xui formulae, this does not prove that other parts of feng xui is true.
Lightning is dangerous. Lightning is caused by Thor's hammer. Lightning is indeed dangerous, does that make Thor and his hammer real?

And think about it, how common is it that a car actually rams into your house facing a junction? Is it as common as burglary? how about burglary of houses with pak koas and other feng xui counter measures?

It's not just lilian too. Don't forget Joey Yap. Anybody who claims to know, and are the authority of this trait but draw answers from thin air, are definately con men, how does no one see that?

What you said got me thinking...

Whenever we decide whether we should believe/do something, we always weigh

lost+gain
----------- X plausibility
effort

Sometimes people, look at how great the lost and how great the gain, and completely forgotten to add the plausibility into the equation.

No matter how good it seems, if it is unlikely, you will still get 0.

Technically, "unlikely" as in 0.~00001 still produces a value, but you get what I mean.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Sep 9 2010, 02:04 PM

humm... I stand corrected


lost+gain
----------- X plausibility X Time (it takes to come into being)
effort

Well, you're right, if enough time has passed, even the seemingly complex and impossible, may still become possible.

But then again, if something is completely Impossible, then any amount of time, will still yield 0 (0X100 billion =0). Such as bending the laws of existence.

of course, we can't dismiss something as having 0 possibility since we can't grasp the infinite laws of existence.

So I'd say that the possibility that something like this that appears to be false based on present logic, must have a very miniscule possibility rating, that any significant amount of time, will still not make it plausible.

When all else fails, we just have to fall back on, sticking to knowledge we do know, and that is to round up the figure. Since there is no way imaginably that it could be plausible, it is safe to say, that something is in fact, impossible.

Lol.

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Added on September 13, 2010, 10:23 amWhile we are on the subject of chinese superstitions, and probability, I'd like to share this phenomenon I witness.
People are so blinded by greed sometimes that they fail to see what's real and what's not.

There is this temple, which owns a tortoise that is said to enable those who molest it to strike 4D.

Seriously, they even have chinese newspaper articles of it, pasted on the wall. It must be true right? It's even in the papers?

The way to do it, is to take your lucky numbers, and show it to the tortoise, then swipe your lucky numbers from it's head to it's tail.

Yes, the tortoise, seems to know numbers, and has connections with Toto, and Magnum.

He gets abalone when the number strikes, they(Toto & Magnum ppl) in turn are bless by the tortoise, and makes a kill at all the other numbers that did not win.

Let's think about it.

Is it possible that people who showed the tortoise their number striked?

Yes Highly likely, assuming there are 100 molesters a day and each of them has a number (which by chance are unique)
There are 10000 possible combinations for a 4 digit numbering system, and out of it, say 10 numbers are the winning numbers. X 3 different companies (assuming the winning numbers are unique).

(100 X 10 X 3)/10000 = 0.3 which means that roughly, 30% of the draws will result in someone winning.

Therefore roughly, out of 3~4 draws someone should be winning something. about 1 Success story a month.

Any wonder?

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Sep 13 2010, 03:43 PM

hum... that's not exactly what I meant by time here.

effects of time here does not refer to individual cases of those who apply feng xui, but, of feng xui actually being applicable, and logical.......

For example, after sometime, some alien beings descend on earth, and with the help of nano bots, reogranized the way our world works, that so happen, you will either suffer, or reap the rewards, by observing feng xui.

Lol... and that is highly unlikely

There's never a 100% certainty in anything. There's always a possibility, that some how, something can happen... just the likelihood that defers, that's what awakened angel meant.

but now, we are moving away from the topic of Feng Xui

In the case of monkeys bashing on the keyboard, we know that it is only a matter of time, that the combination, required for Shakespear will come into being. It is however hard to fathom, under what effect of time, will Feng Xui, drift from being unreal to becoming real, I agree with you on that Abubin. Therefore the likelihood is definately less than that of monkeys punching out shakespear.

Hey, where are all the feng xui masters? Why suddenly silent. lol.

My Ignorance is appalling I didn't know Feng Xui masters sell such crap. I thought it was only as far as calling the moon a planet.


Oh the placebo effect... Works darn well.... until the guy tries to actually fly.

I wanted to rant on this earlier. I guess this is the best time for it. Is it worth a peace of mind, over actually harming your life?

In my taman, there is a corner house at a "+" junction, which has tall hedges for reasons other than aesthetic. I've been cursing those hedges for ages, because it obstructs the view of traffic, you can't tell if there's a pedestrian or an on coming vehicle on the other side of the junction.

Recently I saw some glass on the road next to the hedges, yea, obviously an accident took place recently.

It's not just other ppl that are affected, the owner himself is always at risk when he exits his house.

Well, you're right, in the case of providing motivation to achieve a goal, belief is a good form of motivation. Whether that belief is founded or not doesn't matter as long as the goal is healthy.

For example, a sportsman who psyche himself to imagine himself winning, so that he will give his 101% in the race. Or a soldier who believes that his sacrifice, will enable his family to be safe from harm.

In these case, without belief, their goals would Never come to fruitation.


But one should not derive their goal's from belief. Such as blowing themselves up, because they believe that their unproven god, with an unproven requests, require them to do something like that.

Or making your house into a health hazard, because some strange belief makes you feel uncomfortable living in any other way.

"The Way" as in the philosophical discussion on ethics? Sure.

But to say that if I were to draw a symmetrical sign in the sand, something magical will happen...? come on now.

That was what I meant, item 3 is the most realistic. (Ethics is arguable, but it's still more logical than the others)

I've not heard of any taoist study on nature that makes sense.