honestly, looking at all (actually i only bothered to read few only, but just "literally" for the wording) of these arquments, as long as human cannot do apart from "politic" within society, religion will never be in any form of good shape or faith.

looking at the future (with a bit imagination), those sci-fi AI or robot will probably do much better than human (if still sticking with politic zhit), and better with human be controlled (like controlling a wild beast) or terminated (virus should be removed).

I looked back this for quite sometimes and I think I get what you mean...



四圣諦 is four noble truth I suppose
八正道 is eight fold path??

originations?? again.. read the link http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/depend.htm

contradictions??

四圣諦 is the core concept and first of right understanding of 四圣諦 is the begining.. so, its a direction... not contradiction...

p/s you know mandarin?

Religion is one of the most dangerous things that ever existed on civilisation.

Sounds funny? But it is the case.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the values taught in those religion is bad but you would still be able to cultivate those values even without it. Ironically, our main purpose is actually to develop ourselves spiritually.

If religion were serving it's purpose, we wouldn't be actually moving backwards in terms of our morality.

And TS, if you really are curious about really evolve beings and a little about their way of life, you could check out Thiaoouba Prophecy, the book that has impacted me tremendously and provide very crucial answers to life. You could get the ebook for free from the internet. Be in for a surprise.

The most important thing in a mankind's life is to believe the existence of 'the creator'. Doesn't matter if the religion is Islam, Christian or Buddhism.

Believe in the holy energy..

Don't bring your preaching here. If you want to preach, do it in RWI.

Your post indicates nothing pertaining to the topic at hand. Why do we need to believe, you gave no explanation nor arguement to support your case? Hmph.

Well, the most important thing is what do we believe?
Do we believe that the whole life thingy is created by chance?
The big bang created by chance?
Or there's a holy power that created all of these..?

I haven't take a look on the link yet.

The Noble Eightfold Path is actually an elaboration of number four in Four Noble Truths. And take a look in the first of The Noble Eightfold Path

正见 :

又作谛见。相对于妄想而言，指的是正确的佛理知见，特指具有佛说“为人悉檀”佛法的四谛知见，也就是佛教对于世间谛理与出世间第一义谛法义的如理如实智慧见地。

or

Right view

Right view (samyag-dṛṣṭi • sammā-diṭṭhi) can also be translated as "right perspective", "right vision" or "right understanding". It is the right way of looking at life, nature, and the world as they really are. It is to understand how reality works. It acts as the reasoning for someone to start practicing the path. It explains the reasons for human existence, suffering, sickness, aging, death, the existence of greed, hatred, and delusion. It gives direction and efficacy to the other seven path factors. Right view begins with concepts and propositional knowledge, but through the practice of right concentration, it gradually becomes transmuted into wisdom, which can eradicate the fetters of the mind. Understanding of right view will inspire the person to lead a virtuous life in line with right view. In the Pali and Chinese canons, it is explained thus:[15][16][17][18] [19] [20]

And what is right view? Knowledge with reference to stress (dukkha can also be translated as suffering), knowledge with reference to the origination of stress (or suffering), knowledge with reference to the cessation of stress (or suffering), knowledge with reference to the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress (or suffering): This is called right view.


This is taken off from Wikipedia. I said it contradicted your quote about Buddha said something like 'forget the past, focus on the future'. Because the first principle to 'end sufferings' is actually to understand how reality works, thus we have to think of the past, before focusing on the future. That's what I meant by 'contradiction'. Sorry if it contradicts any of your understanding over the Noble Eightfold Path, as I told you I'm not very literate over Buddhism - just read some of em for the sake of interest and comparison.

Yes, I read chinese LOL~ Took free books and CDs about these when I saw some 'high-ranked' Buddhist monks visited JB hehe

Rethorical questions, none of which have answers. We could banter back and forth about it for hours and come to no answer, simply because there ARE no answers. So, when you say its the most important thing one should hold, then you must be deluded and foolish. Just because something is important to you does not make it important to everybody else, therefore your failed arguement.

What makes you absolutely certain that there was a beginning? For all you know, we may be a continuation. Seriously, read the other pages before commenting blindly.

This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Nov 17 2009, 09:18 PM

Cool it, friend We're not conducting a debate here.

And hazairi, every stand has a cause. To avoid irritation over something that might be disagreeable, you'd have to state your cause over your stand. Regardless what religion you are, or you may not need religion, you must have a cause for it. Personally, I don't like people who talks religiously, but doesn't know why they are into the religion. No offense please, this is just a personal opinion.

Well for me, i will spread what i think is the truth.
When there's two different truths from two different parties, the solution is having a debate..
Anyway, i'm not here to debate about it,
I'm here to spread what i really feel..
I feel happy that my life has a purpose.
That when I die, I will go either hell or heaven based on my deeds here..
i feel happy becoz i believe in destiny..
Believe that the creator is just to all His creation..

Yes, i'm not debating anything.

Frankly speaking, i'm not a very religious person such as the monks, 'Ustaz' or a priest. I'm full of sin.
But what I'm trying to say is that we try to think.
Try to ask ourselves.
Why we are here?
Why there was a big bang based on science.
When we ask why, then we know the answer..

Why won't you try answering all the questions you stated yourself here？

Well if i answer it it will be based on my perception.
Science make us all think and study.
In science, energy can't be created nor it can be destroyed. It can only be transformed from one medium to another medium.
In science, we were all created because of the 'big bang'.
But science can't explain where did the energy from 'big bang' came from?
Well in science, energy can't be created.
If since the beginning of time, the total energy is 100% that means now, the total energy still remains 100%.
Where did the 100% energy came from?
If you take from my perspective, it's simple..
It came from 'the creator'..

What's the concrete proof that makes you think the creator exists?

The thing is, its bad enough some Muslim extremists have corrupted and destroyed the religious discussion thread in RWI. Are you trying to do the same here? Hence my statement, we don't need your preaching.

Maybe you don't understand what I was trying to convey. Sad.

Like i said, one of it is 'the big bang' which was discovered by scientist..

Cool it dude, just cool it. Your strong words are seriously not helpful. If he said so, let's interrogate him to the core. He'll give concrete reasons if he's researched thoroughly on what he said.

Honestly, I'm not preaching, I'm just spreading my understanding and perception.
It is up to you to buy or leave it..

Not concrete enough bro These are those arguments we call rhetorical, we need more specific and indepth cause. Read more, explore more.

Or maybe you have a concrete proof that the creator does not exist?