for "real" intelligent being, one can "believe" the existence of God, but why the need of "religion"?

so, my answer is = for "real" intelligent being, no religion should be exist

for "below average" intelligent being, feel free to do so

Uhm...no. We don't need faith to give our life meaning. That in itself shows human weakness, the need to give meaning to things whether or not it is logical. They worshipped rocks and trees, remember? Modern day religion isn't very different. Then again, those animists could be right. Try looking within yourself to give your life meaning. Why do you have to look anywhere else? But i suppose it's a lot easier to have faith in something you can't see. Cause there is no way you can prove it's right, but it is unlikely it will be proven wrong either. I understand, honestly. Ignorance is bliss. However, our minds can only evolve in a forward motion, excluding conditions like Alzheimer's and amnesia. A person who has grasped this cannot revert to ignorance.

Agreed to some extent Though i wouldn't say no religion should exist. I personally differ intelligence from wisdom. Intelligent people could be very unwise. Like a quantum physicist who never pondered about life. He'd be an intelligent ignoramus But for people who do not even care to realize themselves, the easiest way to lead a meaningful life WOULD be through religion, however true it may be. Who are we to say, for as long as a person dies happy, i believe his purpose in life has been fulfilled. I'm a eudaimonist to an extent haha. & ignorance can be the easiest way to achieve happiness. The problem is, not everyone can be ignorant.

then, I will have to ask: what is the point of believing in god, if you don't believe in religion?

your statement shows that you regard anyone with a belief is stupid, i hope that i have misunderstood.

humans need to believe in something as much as they need to breath. And the belief is sometime, on something groundless and baseless, but as far as it served the purpose of giving a human something to hold onto, the ends, justify the means. but believing without a solid ground, will make you believe blindly.

IMHO, not believing in religion is in itself a new religion made by those 'really' intellectual being. and religion, as i defined it, is system of belief, a yardstick with which you measure your worldview, it tells you how you value something. and your belief, my friend, makes you see people with religion, i mean, a system of belief with a clear status or name, like a cow. with respect, even a cow don't need religion, because they only eat, sleep, and produce. as for us, my friend, we have mind, something that other creatures don't have. with that mind, you came to the conclusion-or are you just mocking the people who have reached the conclusion?- that there's god in our lives. My god, Allah, tells me to look to the sky, to the moon, the changing of night and days, death and life, was it all created for nothing?



and please, don't call other with religion as ignorance. some people have gone to a great length to find truth, searching for every facts and informations, learning and learning so they can be certain of their belief. saying that people with religion as ignorance or fools is like saying they hardwork and their struggle to search truth is worthless..cause in the end, the only right person is you, who believe that there's no need for religion.

And don't go blaming religion for human's mistake. religion is only a tool created by god so that human can easily understand his life and himself better. if a human decided to misuse it, is it really rational to blame the religion? it's like blaming the knife for letting itself being use to killed a person, rather than blaming the murderer who use the knife to kill other..don't you find that ridiculous?

religion regulates humans behaviour. that a part of its purpose, if a person don't follow a religion, then they will likely follow whatever they please. And do remember, communist don't believe in religion. so, what they do to people with religion? read the history of china. what do they follow? communism, which originated from karl marx idea. so, is it the idea that should be blame? or the human who used the idealism to justify they wrong actions?

an atheist once asked sayyidina Ali, "what if there's no god?
he, then, answered, " if there's no god, than i'm alright and you are not any better than me. but if there's god, i'm alright, but you're doomed"

with that, i rest my case.

This post has been edited by d_nabil: Nov 17 2009, 12:42 AM

Many people are certain they do not need understand what they can't understand because they are under the impression that they do not need solid Reason as long as they have good Faith, Blind Faith.

--Me
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/e...ml#fsaHO2ubAGZS

Read about my religion, einstein's religion....maybe u guys should consider join mine..haha...I dont believe personal God, but i believe there is God

Do we need religion??? Yes we do...But, morality should based on empathy or education but not fear of punishment or reward after life....However, isn't how most idiots become good with all this belief??? I couldn't imagine how the world would become or how the idiots would end up if they dont get something to believe in...LOL...Conclusion, it is up to us where to put our faith in...As long we are human, we are a bunch of fools, wasn't the faith that bring us this far???

This post has been edited by communist892003: Nov 17 2009, 02:10 AM

The prospect of a Greater being that listens, understands and rewards the good follower is comforting for some individuals. I wouldn't call them weak-willed, but rather they turn to this Higher being for the hope of answers and understanding when they come upon something they cannot explain or understand. It gives them hope and belief when the world around them seems bleak.
This reduces the amount of questions that they need to ask, as everything can be directed to the doings of this Greater Authority.

An example would be the origins of the Unverse. A physicist would go from "How the Earth was formed" to the seemingly impossible "What caused the Big Bang?"-ish questions while a firm believer of a god would point everything to his god and say "God created this wonderful world for us".

A good paradox I enjoy asking believers of God is the question, "Then what did God do before he created the Universe?"
And I've gotten all sorts of answers. One was that "God was busy battling Satan with the angels."

The ironic part of the paradox is that Lucifer (ala Satan) was an angel, the first and head of the angels of God. So, if such is true, then what was he doing then? I'd like to think that they chill out playing Guitar Hero and Pool. Maybe some wine, we Christians seem to like it.

think about it, if you dont have religion, what place is there for "god"?

true, and religion shall still have its purpose for humanity so long as humanity is unable to find a solid "base" within itself. certain portion have already (according to them) found such a base, as for them religion is meaningless.

on the opposite, i look at creation and the universe and at such a cosmic scale and timeline, i have concluded that humanity in general is really nothing in that scale. to believe that we hold some special place in the universe is pure arrogance.

did you just stereotyped atheist=communist?

dear god, not pascal's wager again. at the surface it seemed a solid argument, but think about it deeper, its the worst logical argument for religion, ever.

---

Added on November 17, 2009, 4:30 amoh, please do elaborate

This post has been edited by lin00b: Nov 17 2009, 04:30 AM

It's very rude of you to stereotype that way. Intelligence has nothing to do with religion. And the statement you just put up, it will certainly disturb a lot of people who believed in religion. Please stay out of this thread if you tend to produce that kind of indirect insult. If you just want to highlight that you don't need religion, just do so, and no such statements like if-you-believe-in-religion-your-intelligence-is-below-average.

In my opinion, the concept of God and religion are inseparable. If you believe in God, you're believing in religion.

Finally, someone who knows his religion voice out his opinion. I couldn't agree more. No offense, friends, but I know too many of 'religious' people who rebel at the sight of this question, but when they voice out their opinion, they don't seem to know their own religion to retaliate.

As for the quote from Ali, he actually meant that God's existence is something we don't know and will never be proven in physical research. It's something we don't know, so being religious is actually a safe way to see life. Because, if God really exist an we don't believe in God, we're doomed. Friend, please find another more concrete quote as this is actually pretty abstract. I remember Dalai Lama quoted something really 'wow' from Ali's Nahjul Balaghah once, Google up whenever you may

Religion is a way of life, it's purpose is to regulate humans behaviour. I'd like to add something. Religion is something you don't follow blindly, even though it looked so nice from the outside. Every religion promotes good values, but which one is the true one religion? They can't be all true. So, I would like to stress the importance to question, question and question every religion, until you find the one that can answer all your question, and the one you'll never regret to make your way of life.




Yes, they has to be stereotyped, as communism ideologies absolutely denies religion.

In 1920, Lenin formulated the Bolshevik golden rule. He said, "Whatever helps the world Communist revolution is good; whatever hinders it is bad. Religion, through its insistence upon individual responsibility to the Creator of all things, interferes with the advance of world collectivism. It is, therefore, irredeemably evil."3 Listen to "Comrade" E. Yaroslavsky, in his book, Religion in the U. S. S. R.: "Remember that the struggle against religion is a struggle for socialism."4 Again, "The program of the Communist International also clearly states that Communists fight against religion…"5

From Communism And Modern Religion.

still, till now I cant comprehend this concept

"why God created human to worhip him then in the end judge them and send them to heaven or hell"

and again, IF human are to rejoice with god, and we eventually die, why bother about judgement day? isnt judgement day tomorrow the same as I`ll die of accident tomorrow?

Good question

Imma gonna Google this.

Example:

A = below average intelligent/wisdom people
B = "real" intelligent/wisdom people
C = someone with religious "power/authority"

Religion = system with rules/regulations related to super being. And also with certain people "delegated" with "power/authority" from this super being to "guide" the all people.

---

Scenario #1:

C tell the mass of A: God is unhappy/lonely, it said to me yesterday we should make him feel better. Therefore everynight I will pick 1 of the female from us, to spend night in the [whatever] room to appease the god.

Religion rule: trust C with upmost loyalty, else you are infidelity

Typical end result:
- A do as told.
- B.... what the hell....don't give a damn.


Scenario #2:

Some soldier/low rank of personnel of X religion: My Great C, the religion Y has denied to bow to us, claimed that religion supposed to be free-will and bla bla bla bullzhit....

C: What! How dare are them! Well, I will amass of peasants to form the God army to smash these infifelity!

Religion rule: trust C with upmost loyalty, else you are infidelity

Typical end result:
- A do as told, X war Y.
- B.... what the hell....don't give a damn.

---

Scenario 3:

.... do you really still want to give more "real" examples?
What? How old are you?

Actually, we're not talking about religious politics here dear friend. We're talking about religion, as in spiritual relativity. And people from the B genre, they do give a damn about this when C bullies A. Not all Bs are religiously and politically ignorant, you know.

The As always stereotypes religious people as manipulative authoritarian, that's why they always follows what the Cs say. So don't think like the As. Think like a B - do not stereotype, and see the true meaning of God before believing human's army as God's army. And B will usually rebel and fight for truce and truth, they don't just say "what the hell, i don't give a damn".

If you're taking Crusades as an example, please read up on Third Crusades. Pope + Henry = C, the crusade army/ people = A, Saladin + Richard The Lionheart = B. Do they say give a damn and set a treaty to overcome orders from the C? Yes, they do give a damn. Please analyse real life situation according to real examples, when you give out arguments like this.

Does age bothers you? I'm 19.

This post has been edited by annariana: Nov 17 2009, 09:30 AM

So that the experience of existentialism can be fulfilled?

Duh.

friend.. don`t google.. please... use your reason to reason... when you google, you will be the same... read people`s thinking and adapt to it.. its like read holy book and brainwash your brain to fit in

I wanted to give different opinions, and let you choose which one suits you the best

Well, if it's according to my logic, I'll explain it using the theory of God as the creator. God is called God because of his superiority. So, there is no such thing as to question why we must worship him. Its like you having pets, pets obey what you say because you're superior. But then, the difference from those pets and us is that we can think, and pets don't. It's up to us to think, investigate and find proofs, how can God be more superior than us? Whats the proof of his superiority?

That way, you'll find the answer. I'm not gonna elaborate this is as I have limited perspectives on different religions, on whats their theory of God. Only pretty literate in revealed religions. So I'm now googling on what non-revealed religions has to say about this.

Google this one:

Existentialism.

Personally, I believe God created life for that reason, although the word existentialism is merely a word coined in order to describe something that humanity has not fully grasped yet.

So I can be wrong.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Nov 17 2009, 10:26 AM

Sorry friend, I am not really keen into this particular theory. Had a lot of this in Albert Camus' works, and existentialism denies religion over freedom. I believe that humanity needs both religion and freedom, or else there will be no control over morality.

Sorry if I offended you, but I think this theory is radical and somewhat outdated. I do respect human individuality, believed in it. But then this theory may cause over assertiveness in the concept of individuality and freedom, and there are no control factor when someone became too individual.

That's because you didn't know existentialism does not necessarily has to reject religion into its equation.

There are existentialists that accept religion, but just like the case of communism, existentialism rejects religion in it's fundamental concept. Concrete human existence = totally against the theory of creation in religions.