Do you know what is existentialism in the first place?

And when you said "the theory of creation in religions", what do you mean?

Of course I do mate, I studied philosophy as a sub in college. Or else I won't reply at all LOL.

The theory of creation in religion points that God is the creator of everything in the world. Total superiority. That's why, Darwinism is against religion, so are existentialism. I remember Sarte/ Satre whoever stated that "existence precedes essence". This theory, totally denies religion. And actually, existentialism has a very close knit with Marxism. I remember reading Das Kapital and comparing it with Satre's work, it really looked like Marxism is existentialism in practical. And my accusations are true, as if you read about Satre's life, he is actually a supporter of Marxism.

Why do I say existentialism is outdated? Existentialism is not the same as other philosophies, it is actually a cultural movement caused by post-World War difficulties. Then how about new existentialism? New existentialism are all about scientific practices in truth-tracking, and so are the classical theory of self-making being converted in terms of making choices. Religion, is not all about scientific practices, it is something beyond that. Thus, I don't think existentialism can be used in making choices whether you need or you don't need religion - it is against religion itself.

Let me ask you.

Why do some existentialists believe in religion?

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Nov 17 2009, 11:37 AM

Those kind of existentialists do not believe in religion, they believe in spirituality. Religion and spirituality are 2 different things.

Edit : I did said that there are some existentialist that believe in religion. This is one wrong statement, as they actually only believe in spirituality. Pardon my mistakes.

This post has been edited by annariana: Nov 17 2009, 11:51 AM

How is that spirituality cannot be related to religion itself? Or at least, related to a particular Deity?

IF one day, science can measure the intensity and existance of soul as measuring heat, temperature, would religion exist as in faith in god?

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Added on November 17, 2009, 12:00 pmagain... google this also...

" If god existed all this while, why he suddenly change his mind and created human? was he lonely?? and after judgement day... what`s next?

people would enjoice in heaven eternally with god while some suffer in hell with satan for eternity?? "

does this make any senses??

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Nov 17 2009, 12:00 PM

I don't say that religion and spirituality are not related, I just said that spirituality and religion are both different things. Religion is a system of structured belief. It has their specific and clear concept of God, leaded by a divine source like holy books etc. While spirituality is more into self realizations. You get spiritual by defining your own God and seeking for a peace of mind, using your own logic and feel. Pure spirituality does not consider religion to find your own God nor seeking peace of mind, they purely seek for redemption by ways like meditation and mixed up God theories.

There are aspects of spirituality in religion. Spirituality in religion are guided self realizations to find your God, and to seek the truth and peace of mind. The spirituality are guided by the religion itself. But then, pure spirituality has no religion in it. All are based on rationality and logic, which might be wrong. Thus, pure spirituality are not related to any particular deity, unlike spirituality in religion.

Dude,

I'll get back to you later. Philosophy needs thinking too ya LOL

try to think as if you are not a Muslim....

cheers

Mate, it's really hard to think without referring to a certain category of religions as this involves very different concepts of God. But this is what I think, in logic. Again I refer God as something superior.

Superior Meaning and Definition

1. (a.) Belonging to the part of an axillary flower which is toward the main stem; posterior.
2. (a.) More elevated in place or position; higher; upper; as, the superior limb of the sun; the superior part of an image.
3. (a.) More comprehensive; as a term in classification; as, a genus is superior to a species.
4. (a.) Higher in rank or office; more exalted in dignity; as, a superior officer; a superior degree of nobility.
5. (a.) Above the ovary; -- said of parts of the flower which, although normally below the ovary, adhere to it, and so appear to originate from its upper part; also of an ovary when the other floral organs are plainly below it in position, and free from it.
6. (n.) The head of a monastery, convent, abbey, or the like.
7. (a.) Beyond the power or influence of; too great or firm to be subdued or affected by; -- with to.
8. (a.) Pointing toward the apex of the fruit; ascending; -- said of the radicle.
9. (n.) One who is above, or surpasses, another in rank, station, office, age, ability, or merit; one who surpasses in what is desirable; as, Addison has no superior as a writer of pure English.
10. (a.) Higher or greater in excellence; surpassing others in the greatness, or value of any quality; greater in quality or degree; as, a man of superior merit; or of superior bravery.

In other words, God as a deity - Deity - Monotheism

"In some cases, especially the monotheistic Abrahamic god or the supreme deity of henotheistic religions, the divine entity is not thought of by some believers in the same terms as deities - as a powerful, anthropomorphic supernatural being - but rather becomes esoteric, the reification of a philosophical category - the Ultimate, the Absolute Infinite, the Transcendent, the One, the All, Existence, or Being itself, the ground of being, the monistic substrate, etc."


Thus, as God is the Ultimate, the Absolute Infinite et cetera, he is not the same as us. He is more superior than human, means he does not have feelings like being lonely, sad, horny, constipated et cetera. Give this example a thought : if God can feel lonely, of course he is the same like us as we feel lonely too. If we can shit, of course God can shit too right? If we can die, God dies too right? OMG your God dies

Of course God don't feel lonely, as he couldn't shit or he couldn't die. He is the ultimate, the most supreme, that's why human call him God. Thus the statement of "God created us because he is lonely" does not fill in the criterias why we must call him God. And you know, if we kinda think of it, God doesn't have a son too, because God doesn't have sex, he's different and more supreme than us. No offense to Christians, but I used to question a lot of religions including mine.

Okay, lets not stray away. The main question is actually, why God created us to worship him?


Answers later. I'm trying my best to think like an atheist now LOL.

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Added on November 17, 2009, 4:12 pmReferring to my previous post, let me explain the "atheistic opinion" on Why Must We Worship God.

Come to the concept of worship. In every religion, it is stated that we should worship God because of LOVE.
1. God loves us
2. We should love God too

What's the proof that God loves us?
1. The universal, cliched opinion : He created the universe for us, we should be grateful for that
2. Even though a lot of us don't believe in him, he still provide oxygen, a place to live in, not much physical threats like once-you-dont-pray-then-say-goodbye-to-life

And did it ever occured to us that we should love God back too? Who are we to expect all comforts from someone who loves us without us loving back in return? God isn't being tyrannical. He is being loving, he loves us too much and he wanted to be loved back. Sounds so humanistic for you? Let me tell you something, every religion stated that God loves us. That does not mean that the love is to spoil. There is a proverb in Bahasa Melayu, heck I can't find the equivalent in English "sayang anak tangan tangankan"。 When you love your kid, be stern with him, to teach him to be human. Let us balance this proverb in this case. God loves us too much, that he taught us to love him back, even threaten us with hell to stop us to find other Gods. This is not arrogance, this is pure Godly love. Even though a lot of human does not believe in him, he still pampers them with life, just that he showed a lot of signs and threats (hell, doom etc), so that we don't stray away from loving him. So different from humanly love.

Then, why do he created us in the first place? I'd say that he created us to find is there any of us that will love him back. This is why the concept of heaven/ nirvana is there, that's the reward for people who loved him back. How to love him back? Worship him, simple. It's like showing your love to a boyfriend, just that you don't show your boobs to prove your love, you show your prayer to love him.

And then, why, after all the worshipping, God still give us hard times like recession, tsunami, high crime rates etc?
1. This is because God wants us to love him more. When we underwent hard times in this world, we'll pray more. Prayers works spiritually, it calms you down, and you feel supported by 'something' (you'd know this if you really meditated before). The 'something' is God. God loves to be loved. I know this rationale is very abstract, but then theology itself is one abstract thing that it's really hard to think the other way round and try to answer the opposite
2. Those crimes, are caused by people who does not obey God. It's like mothering a kid. A mother set up rules and regulations for a child, e.g don't cross the road before looking left and right. But then when the child disobeys, fatal endings. It's the same on this case. God set up religion and regulations for us e.g be honest, don't steal etc. But then when we did the opposite, crime rates soared high and the world is not a better place for us.

So friends, these are what I think about why must we worship God. Correct me if you guys saw any loopholes, I know this is waaay abstract, it's not an easy question too, ya know

This post has been edited by annariana: Nov 17 2009, 04:12 PM

ok.. we got a problem.. no matter how we see it god still stuck with concept in religion...

let`s do this... erase the meaning of god from religion perspective... and now GOD is just an empty word with no meaning that will used to define existencism....

and look from science view big bang etc... can the word god fit in?

If you really researched before, you'll find that something as abstract like God can't be proven using science. or in other words pure humanity or existentialism.

Yeah, God is an empty word with no meaning if you minus religion AND spirituality. But then, even behavorial sciences stated that it is natural for all humans to believe in God, whether they're atheists or not, it's in human's nature. Just that they denies the feeling of having God around because they can't prove it scientifically nor rationale-minus-spirituality.

I think it is natural for us to rely on something to calm ourselves down - the need of spirituality. How to overcome the need of spirituality? Religion is the answer. But then people who feels that following a certain terms and condition in religion is lame, they'll opt for spirituality only instead.

But then, I think there are so many blank parts of spirituality, if practised without religion. I'll be very ignorant if I go all spiritual - yoga, meditation etc, without being able to answer philosophical questions about life e.g why we're created?, that is missing in spirituality alone.

This post has been edited by annariana: Nov 17 2009, 05:00 PM

I think it is human nature to wonder and be curious about the world... and many accepted GOD as they think they want to be part of this big thing.....

buddha said it is useless to know how we started... what matter is now and future... its like a man hit with posion arrow... its useless to know who hit you, from which direction, what poison etc.. what matter is to withdraw the arrow and heal you from the venom

They can't all be true. They all claim to be true. Then wouldn't picking the right one be a matter of luck? And with shitty luck you get eternal damnation. How nice... Oh, & seriously Pascal's wager is stupid. I could start a new belief that if you believe in God, you will go to hell. Why? Maybe there's some superior being that may be god or aliens that emphasise the ability to be realistic. Hence, you phail, you go to Hell. Pascal's basing his wager on the thought that there are only 2 sides to death.

Btw, Communist=Atheist does not mean Atheist=Communist.

Rofl, now that's being passed on as an obvious fact? The boundaries of Human reason do not consolidate the need for faith. The want, maybe.

But yeah, i accept that a majority of ppl believe in God. I do, too. I just don't believe in the teachings here on Earth. I think an omnipotent God should have no qualms with not being worshipped. I mean, i mean no offence here but...Isn't that narcissistic and arrogant? Creating humans to worship Him or be damned. My friend explained to me that God has the right to feel that way cause He is God. Tyranny, anyone? She then continued to compare God to a Father & how he deserves his children's love cause well, he created them. Whether or not a father deserves his children's love, damning them for not submitting is just plain... It sounds like a very humane God to me. That is not the God i believe in.

I like that quote, will certainly come out in my future essays LOL I like Buddhism philosophies. This one is in the 四圣諦 right? But then, I found some contradiction in 八正道, as the first of the 8 ways, is actually about acquiring right understanding on our originations. Correct me if I'm wrong la hor, I don't read so much in these kinda philosophies.

But then, I think it's worth to know how I started, it's some sort of enigma I can't seem to let go

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Added on November 17, 2009, 6:14 pmYou make your God sounds very complicated LOL Well I do respect that, but then to me, I think my God don't act like human, he acts way superior than that. The way he love us is just different. That's why I think over the philosophy of worshipping God before accepting. Why? I think if God doesn't make religion exist with aspects like hell, threatening etc, human will be uncontrollable. Same as having religion without believing in God, they'll be like why-cant-i-kill-people-whats-the-worst-will-happen-to-me-huh sorta argument. Plus, I don't think I'm in any place higher than him to blame God for being arrogant and narcissistic.

And yes, communist = atheist, but atheist are not necessarily communist. Anybody?

Picking the right religion is not a matter of luck, it's comparison and a lot of thinking. So everybody has the chance to avoid 'eternal damnation', unless if they're ignorant and just wait for something to show up. I don't agree on the wager though - it made people follow religion blindly. I'd rather compare and contrast and find the most logical explanation of everything in those handfuls of religions.

This post has been edited by annariana: Nov 17 2009, 06:35 PM

u just offend ur country... we hav a moon on our flag..u know wat religion is tht?
hm..if without, how you get merry?

This post has been edited by taitianhin: Nov 17 2009, 06:17 PM

SORRY.... My mandarin not that good...

If you want to learn buddhism, try theravada..more ori. the chinese buddhism is extended version

what buddha coin as world is the world created by our 5 senses... not earth, star, sky, water etc...

sky do not exist if you cant see it...

see this link on how the thoughts arises in your mind

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/depend.htm

I have been reading it for quite sometime and still cant grasp it.... hope you get it...

Ya hor, Rukun Negara.

Regard this as a normal conversation lah No need to be so rigid one LOL I'm not promoting you guys to be atheists!

one thing... why malaysian flag follow USA flags of red and white stripes??

Coincidental?