Part 1. understanding toxins

wikipeida give us what toxin is

A toxin (Greek: t??????, toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced by living cells or organisms[1][2]  (although humans are technically living organisms, man-made substances created by artificial processes usually aren't considered toxins by this definition).

For a toxic substance not produced by living organisms, "toxicant" is the more appropriate term, and "toxics" is an acceptable plural[citation needed].

why did i bring up toxins in here and not go directly to venom or poison since it is more related to scorpions?

simple

venom is a toxin same as poison.

the different is the place where it originally arrives. is it from animal,plants, or chemicals.

there are a variety of toxins but i'm just going to cover the normal toxins which are normally found in scorpions which are neurotoxins venom and only 1 species that has a hemotoxin venom which is Hemiscorpius lepturus.

to state all the available toxins in a scorpion venom would take a large amount of time and space hence this article is a condense version of what i can find on the internet and through the books and journals that i have read and reading.

what are neurotoxins?

wikipedia give us this definition

A neurotoxin is a toxin that acts specifically on nerve cells (neurons), usually by interacting with membrane proteins such as ion channels.

in short any type of venom or poison that attacks the nerve cells.

most scorpions have neurotoxins and so does snakes,some marine animals, spiders, and other family of animals.

the way that neurotoxin works is by attacking the protein membrane of the nerve cells either by disrupting the transmission and receiving of nerve impulses from the brain or causing the nerve cells to fire their own nerve impulse regardless of the brain own nerve impuls.

in the 1st scenario where the toxin blocks the tranmission and receiving of nerve impluses the most common effects are paralysis in which the envenomate victims loose control over their body and are paralyse yet are concious but unable to speak or move. death is usually cause by the paralyses of the lung and heart tissue.

in the 2nd scenario the toxin cause rapid nerve pulses to be transmitted by all the nerve cells and overloading the spinal chord and brain which usually leads to seizures and passing out. death is usually cause by brain damage but is rare unless the toxin is delivered in a large dose or have a high LD50 number.

for further reading of the way neurotoxins works please go to

how neurotoxins works (caution alot of weird words in there)

what is hemotoxins?

again wikipedia is my soure which gives us

Hemotoxins, haemotoxins or hematotoxins are toxins that destroy red blood cells (that is, cause hemolysis), disrupt blood  clotting, and/or cause organ degeneration and generalized tissue damage. The term hemotoxin  is to some degree a misnomer since toxins that damage the blood also damage other tissues. Injury from a hemotoxic agent is often very painful and can cause permanent damage. Loss of an affected limb is possible even with prompt treatment.

in simpler terms toxins that destroy cells. the toxins rapidly spreads using the blood stream as a medium as transport and as it travels it will actually destroy cells  which willl lead to severe bleeding and necrosis. death usually occours due to the plummeting of the victims blood preasure cause  by the bleeding when the cell structures ruptures which stresses the heart  which causes cardiac arrest or the toxin reaches the heart and destroys it.

some famous animals that have hematoxins are the viper family,spiders, and the one and only scorpion species which is the Hemiscorpius lepturus which is native to Iran.

if anybody is curios what is necrosis here is a picture of necrosis on a boy that have been bitten by a Fer de Lance(a snake with a nasty hemotoxic venom) and was not treated with antivenin but antibiotic for 2 weeks

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so end chapter 1 what is toxins. chapter 2. LD50, what is it and how do they get the numbers. please discuss the 1st chapter and any questions or suggestions are appreciated..

the crazy demon.

kuwy86 the picture u see of the really bad necrosis on the leg is cause by the bite form a snake called the Fer deLance (Bothrops lanceolatus). it belongs to the pit viper family.

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Added on April 14, 2010, 4:21 pmbtw ryo , the picture u showed is a case of the venom being injected intra-subcutaneously which means the venom never actually went into the muscle and it eats away at the skin layers.

my picture of necrosis is a classic example of intra-muscular venom delivery.

the verom eat meat ? ..
which common scorpions most dangerous ?

sharing here one common scorpion named the deathstalker - (Leiurus quinquestriatus),  its powerful venom compensates for the scorpion's weaker pincers and lack of brawny .

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

The deathstalker (Leiurus quinquestriatus), is a species of scorpion from the Buthidae family. It is also known the israeli desert scorpion and numerous other colloquial names, which generally originate from the commercial captive trade of the animal. To eliminate confusion, especially with potentially dangerous species, the scientific name is normally used to refer to them. The name Leiurus quinquestriatus roughly translates into English as "five-striped smooth-tail". Other species of the genus Leiurus are often referred to as "deathstalkers" as well.

Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Arthropoda
Subphylum: Chelicerata
Class: Arachnida
Order: Scorpiones
Family: Buthidae
Genus: Leiurus
Species: L. quinquestriatus
Binomial name : Leiurus quinquestriatus

The deathstalker is regarded as a highly dangerous species because its venom is a powerful cocktail of neurotoxins, with a LD50 rating. While a sting from this scorpion is extremely painful, it normally would not kill an otherwise healthy adult human. However, young children, the elderly, or infirm (such as those with a heart condition or those who are allergic) would be at much greater risk. Any envenomation runs the risk of anaphylaxis, a potentially life-threatening allergic reaction to the venom. If a sting from Leiurus quinquestriatus does prove fatal, the cause of death is usually pulmonary edema. The German pharmaceutical company Twyford and the French pharmaceutical company Sanofi Pasteur both make an antivenom intended for the treatment of deathstalker envenomations.

Neurotoxins in L.quinquestriatus venom include the following:

Chlorotoxin
Charybdotoxin
Scyllatoxin
Agitoxins type 1, 2 and 3

a newly molted 5th instar  Leiurus quinquestriatus back a couple of week ago ..

Just met up with Sam yesterday night. Had a good chat and boy does he looked sleepy but talking about scorpions he's wide awake, haha pleasure meeting with you kid and thanks for the 'gifts' your brought. Hope to see you soon.

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Added on April 18, 2010, 12:51 ambtw deathpion ... congrats on the newly molted

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Added on April 18, 2010, 12:51 ambtw deathpion ... congrats on the newly molted

Congrate on ur new brood, my last hot.hottentotta just molted to adulthood 
Anw i dun think it is a pre mature birth, otherwise u will have all of them unfertilized like what my friend experienced with his emperor
It's pretty normal to have a few unfertilized egg in a brood ime, because those that i observed the birth giving process, all of them have unfertilized eggs....
But dun quote me cause i have no proof to backup my claim

Anw my way of keeping mine is a bit different from urs, i keep mine in plain coco fiber substrate in the same container as urs
I keep those substrate dry and only mist a lil bit at the wall for once a week or longer

I believe this thread is moving to a new direction.Hope it stays that way. Really learned a lot of all of you guys

Basically I am just stuck with Mesobothus and Asian Forest Scorpions. I'm sure many here have observed/documented/researched a lot on the species of the Heterometrus genus. Dunno what can I do. It's fantastic to watch them interact with each other though.
pS: Me too.. Mafia wars... add me in fb then I can help s98432512

Congrate on ur new brood, my last hot.hottentotta just molted to adulthood 
Anw i dun think it is a pre mature birth, otherwise u will have all of them unfertilized like what my friend experienced with his emperor
It's pretty normal to have a few unfertilized egg in a brood ime, because those that i observed the birth giving process, all of them have unfertilized eggs....
But dun quote me cause i have no proof to backup my claim

Anw my way of keeping mine is a bit different from urs, i keep mine in plain coco fiber substrate in the same container as urs
I keep those substrate dry and only mist a lil bit at the wall for once a week or longer

The Hottentotta babies are not premature. The ones that came out safely developed into nice scorplings. The embryos could have either been infertilized (this is normal) or like you said, suffered from being prematurely released due to a myriad of reasons. Is this the mother's first brood? Small numbers are quite common in the first batch of babies for a lot of species of scorpions.

Forest scorpions is grossly underrated in the hobby. They are often seen as second class scorpions by collectors after graduating to the more potent species. These 'ugly ducklings' are actually quite interesting, set aside the calm demeanor and impressive bulk. If you have time (like me, I always used to have time) and spend hours on end faithfully observing and watching them, they will begin to grow on you and finally mature into beautiful swans. They are magnetic animals Isaac. There is still much to learn about Heterometrus.

P/s: I am expecting a second brood of F2 captive bred Heterometrus spinifer within the next few days/weeks. They will go together with the mother to anyone who is willing to spend the time and effort to care for them. Self collect in Ampang Point @ a time convenient to me. Please leave me a pm.