hey guys.

i just got my stpm results, and i was utterly disappointed only to realize my scores were below the minimum requirement of the medic programme in universities like Manipal, IMU, etc etc...

the thing is, since young i've been dreaming of becoming a doctor. any advice? should i re-take pre-u, e.g. foundation, SAM?

suggest forget the idea........

i wanted to be an astronaut too.........but......

What did you get for your STPM?

circa cgpa 1.66.........

neopets_35,

You have a very weak result for both Chemistry and Maths...
You will be having a great deal of trouble studying science-based courses @ Degree level...

I wanted to recommend you to do Biomedical science degree first (I assumed that you got a CGPA of at least 3.00), but then again, after seeing your result. I'm not sure I can recommend any degree course for you - IPTA and even IPTS requires at least a CGPA of 2.00 for degree program.

The only way that I can think of at this moment is - you can re-sit for your STPM or you can apply for a Diploma program using your SPM result (assuming it is good).

yes, unfortunately neopets u have to have strong foundation in chemistry. Do you like the subject? because Biochemistry is a core subject for understanding the human organism processes.

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Added on February 27, 2010, 2:17 amyes this is so true. They do not know what is wrong with them. Self-administering medicine is often seen! at least even here in russia the patients even know the sceintific name of medicine that should be given to them - the same for europeans and americans "most of them" So i have heard



and I think I know what is the problem with graduates from Ukr and Ru. It is the clinical part, because reports are written in detail in Ru, while it is a simple conclusive line in Mal "and docs often told rus students to cut the crap we dont need that much". and the clinical part in Rus is worse in the sense that docs are not as dedicated as Mal docs in GH back home. "PMC students stand out and the same for local U". and diseases are different too in both countries...and the MMC doesnt allow Rus students to do their summer practical back home starting this year...

This post has been edited by Jedi: Feb 27 2010, 02:18 AM

I'm not shooting anyone either; merely reminding those going for interviews to be prepared for certain questions and don't give vague answers like "I want to help people". Almost every candidate will say that, and unfortunately will get shot.

If you earn Euro, you spend Euro as well; so never ever compare pay after currency conversion. I'm not sure how much surgical trainees in Malaysia get paid, if you get 80K ringgit per year it's not too bad compared to other countries although this is not taking into account working environment and racial bias and all those factors.

Again, some people tend to think that money is the sole factor that overseas graduates do not return to Malaysia upon graduation. It's not so simple, and in fact the main deterrence is actually the internal power struggle plus political/racial bias.

Doubling the numbers of junior medical staff might not be a bad idea. Assuming that all of them are competent (or at least willing to learn if they are not), having more junior staff should be able to shorten the length of shifts and on-calls, and hence reduce the workload and burden.

workload for housemans has already markedly reduced, due to the sheer numbers......

however, there is intrinsic problem with shift scheduling, continuity of patient care suffers, and mistakes are most common during handing overs.........so i don't think that will implemented........

as to quality, the competence of housemans is very variable, and this variability varies, depending on where they are trained.........oecd graduates are the most consistent, and russian/ukraine trained doctors the most variable........

this is all reflective in the intake policy, and the assessment policy, of each respective med school..........

Markedly reduced yes, but continuous on-calls for 36 hours are still inhumane and will make the medical staff more prone to errors.

The return of Russian/Ukraine graduates will definitely be welcomed as the more personnel available the better. However, if they are really sub-standard (this includes graduates from any uni, not just from Eastern Europe), they should have a proper retraining programme under well-supported supervision for them to obtain whatever skills required to work in Malaysia.

It works both ways - the sub-par graduates must be willing to learn the tools of the trade, while the more senior staff should be accomodating and willing to retrain them. Constant b*tching and whining about their incompetencies will never solve the problem; we might as well retrain them instead. The sad part is, do we actually have a well-planned and supportive training programme for those who are not-accredited, or do we simply throw them into the fray?

their degrees are recognised, so there is no issue of not being accredited.........

as for retraining, isn't it ironic, just after med school, they are found incompetent (a recent survey in GHKL found 15% of houseman to be so) and need retraining........there is something very wrong with this entire scenario.......

you are in oz now, what do you think would happen if a whole bunch of inadequately trained aussie doctors are let loose in oz hospitals?.......you should be familiar with the amc exams process for foreign trained doctors who migrated there.........would they ever scrape that requirement?.........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Feb 27 2010, 05:40 PM

hey guys, didnt know there was a thread for medical students. this is great, how many of you guys are graduating this year and going to apply housemanship training for 2010?

There are many skills which you will only get to learn when you enter the real world, not as a medical student. Having said that, basic clinical skills such as history taking and venepunctures should already been acquired upon graduation, and sadly there have been stories where some graduates can't even perform them properly. I don't think anyone really knows how the accreditation process in Malaysia is made or what criteria universities have to meet before being recognised by the medical board and health ministry, unless he/she is working for the authorities. The current issue is that they are now back in our country, and instead of ostracising them and constantly shunning them as useless bunch of people we might as well take the proper steps to train them - that's what the hospital staff should do. The government on the other hand has a role to play in deciding which university's course in up to expectations; and if they are not their graduates should not be registered until they pass the medical competency exams.

In Australia there are training/mentorship programmes available if your degree are not recognised. The international medical graduates (IMGs) have to undergo accreditation exams before they receive the AMC certificate. It is not uncommon to see IMGs who were specialists in their original country working as residents or even interns before they get re-accepted into the respective specialist colleges by sitting for exams. These IMGs are a valuable asset to the health system as long as they are properly trained, even as junior medical staff. I cannot see the reason why we cannot do the same in Malaysia for those who graduated from areas where their training may not be fully suitable for our country's health scenarios.

This post has been edited by StarGhazzer: Feb 27 2010, 07:19 PM

neopets_35

Do you mind forking out $$? There are plenty of choices available if you do so. You can take loan too if you want.

IF you really have the passion, maybe you can try med sch in russia or indon? their requirement is not that strict. But you must work that extra mile.

If you are really dedicated, i shall say.. why not?

My parents don't mind forking out the money, when it comes to my passion to do medic.

Speaking of which, I believe my STPM results were bad mainly due to me not putting much effort either. As compared to my results at SPM (A1 Chem, B3 Bio, B3 Physics, A1 Maths, A1 Add Maths), I admit I was way, way more relaxed during my STPM years than in my SPM years. I only started to really concentrate to study for STPM a month before the exam started, which I knew is a very, very regretful action. Yes, I admit I regretted bout that...

Besides I thought of redoing a year of foundation in science to proceed to Manipal next year, but making sure I'd really really study hard and smart this time. What you think?

there is no need, because unlike australia where only a few foreign med degrees are recognised, there are lots of foreign unis recognised by mmc, and those who trained in these places can get registration without further assessment of their competency........they walk straight into the housemanship programme, expected to be fully competent to function at houseman level, and 1 in 7 are found not functional.......

in the regulation of doctor training and recognition, msia and oz lies on opposite ends of the spectrum........and hence different sets of problems faced by the authorities........

what msia faces is like these img's entering aussie medical workforce WITHOUT being assessed and retrained, without needing to pass through the amc exams successfully.......you do know the attrition rate of img's at the amc exams........imagine those who fail entering the workforce.........

These are things that we already know, but unfortunately can't do much to change it unless one has huge 'connections' with those that yield the power. Recognition of universities can only be decided by the authorities, but within the hospital itself things can be done to help improve the quality of the junior staff.

We're going in circles here; what we're seeing now is many senior medical staff complaining on the media and blogs about the sub-par standards of certain foreign university graduates, but how many of them are actually pushing for a proper mentorship/training programme within the hospital to help them? Supervise them, guide them the proper way of doing things, show them how it's done, assess and provide constructive feedback, rectify and countersign paperwork, it sounds like babysitting but if it helps them to improve then it's a win-win situation.

This post has been edited by StarGhazzer: Feb 27 2010, 10:50 PM

Absolutely, the senior medical staffs have nothing much can do to change the situation as everything are beyond their control but improve the mentorship is the only way to achieve the win-win situation. No points of complaining but keep the situation the same. They should try to guide those sub-par junior medical staff properly in order for them to be more competent and on par with other HO . Senior medical staffs play insignificant role in recognition of medical school and registration of medical graduates. Therefore,keep on criticizing and complaining will never improve the circumstances now.

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Feb 27 2010, 11:05 PM

these things should be done in med schools, not service gov hospitals.........

it is not the job of busy service orientated gov hospitals and staffs to re-run med schools all over again for these people......how to take history, exam patients, which investigations are relevant (some just order everything for all patients, so they don't get scolded!).....service needs to be provided, and lives are at stake.......

in any case, if the basics are not there, one cannot 'mentor' them to the next level.........

oh well, i guess people will not understand the dilemma and difficulties unless one actually is working in that environment.......and the people on the ground just bypass the problem as they have no time for this, they just pile more responsibility on those who can function, and sideline those who cannot.......

finally, it appears that the blame for doctors who should not have gone to med school, are poorly trained and become non functional junior doctors, has now shifted to seniors doctors.........for not helping them become competent.......!!

This post has been edited by limeuu: Feb 28 2010, 12:41 AM

neopets_35

If you dont mind forking out $$, maybe you can ask around for russia or indon for medical degree, i not sure they will accept or not, but you can worth trying.

There are plently options available. As far as I know, you can apply to russia for the MD course. If they accpet your STPM, then thats great, if not, then you have to do foundation, which duration is quite short, approximately 8-9 months, then by september you will be doing your 1st year MD course. Browse through the papers, they will advertise for MBBS course to russia constantly, so maybe you can just call them up and enquire about that, saying that you have done STPM and see what they says.


I had just spoken to my senior yesterday, who's studying in MMMC,twinning India Malacca. He said that it's no joke studying there, much much much much more tougher than any STPM or A levels.

The time of studies is from 8am-4/5pm daily from moday to saturday.
Anatomy is quite deep and detailed compared to students who are studying in monash or IMU.

If you fail a paper, you will have to retake each paper paying RM10,000.

So do think seriously about it, its your future. All the best in your decisions!

Honestly speaking, I'd never like russian medical universities. Indonesians one are pretty okay, to my opinion.

Most likely I'm doing my pre-u again. Then again, I am considering SAM, AIMST Foundation in Science (which Manipal accepts too) and MUFY. Dunno' which is better... My target, all these while, has been Melaka-Manipal.

I'm willing to study harder for this, much much much harder in fact.