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Business The Truth about Actuarial Science, It is not only about the Math

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N900user
post May 19 2011, 08:26 AM

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QUOTE(macamtakada @ Apr 2 2011, 01:57 PM)
Pass SOA exam P with grade 8 enter uni can be exempted from Probability and Statistics I and II or not?
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wow.. you shud be great since you can pass your P before entering university..
we welcome u to the actuaries, make sure you pass all the preliminary exams; P, FM, MLC, MFE and C before graduate.
Does it sound hard? A lot of my coursemates passed all before graduate.
If you can, get an ASA title or pass two (or three due to the recently changes of requirement from SOA) advanced paper.
I think the job will come to you rather you look for a job.

Good luck dude
N900user
post May 19 2011, 08:33 AM

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QUOTE(katana18 @ Apr 7 2011, 09:18 PM)
I just read through all 12 pages in the hope of finding a rough figure for the starting salary of Actuarial Associates. No luck.

I'm an actuarial student at Drake University, Iowa. Don't listen to people who tell you that Drake is one of the lesser schools. Those are the people who go to places like Wisconsin-Madison & UPenn mostly because they are highly ranked. If what you really want to do is Act Sci, then you'd be hard pressed to do any better than Drake (except Waterloo, which I turned down). I've passed the first two papers of the SOA (P & FM), and I will be starting my summer internship with Maybank Etiqa in May. I'd like to share my experience with anyone who might be interested, and I hope that you benefit from it.

...........................

I am not your typical Malaysian studying abroad. I am more white than I care to explain. I am an active member of a social fraternity, Sigma Chi, which to my knowledge is something that has never been done before at Drake by any Malaysian. I fully intend to secure a position here after I graduate with 4-5 papers. And it is my sincere hope that you think long and hard about studying Actuarial Science before you make the commitment I have.
*
.

I always find that one who study oversea is clever and smart. You still need to put a lot of effort to gain your Associate and Fellow before graduate. Because when you work, you have no time to study or difficult to concentrate. Studying exams for SOA is never easy. Personally, I failed the first two papers in the first attempt because I did not study enough and I did not underestimate it. To be qualified, we still have a long way to go. Lets work hard together.
Gissle
post Jun 29 2011, 02:12 PM

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Thanks for sharing some info ealier.
Anyway , here is my question that boders me for months.
I got offers from Uni of Melbourne, Macquerie, Southampton, Manchester and City Uni ( Cass ) for actuarial science. So I was confused for some reasons because
City offers good exemption condition ( 9 papers according to my friend), business school ranking was quiet high , and there is placement or interns , plus I can see Singapore Actuary Organization state the name City .( planning to work in Singapore).
However the overall ranking of the Uni was not impressive.

Then I have Southampton, they have good reputation and good ranking, but ranking for business school I do not know. Exemption papers 8 only. No placement

Then, Manchester, according to another friend, this is a good business school , reputation good, but the actuarial science was very new ,it is establish at 2008. ranking superb, but I cant see its name in SAO or Malaysia Actuary Board.

So, I would like to ask. Is the exemption and placement more important, or the ranking and education quality is more important for the industry in future? So what do you think ?
Searingmage
post Jul 2 2011, 09:32 PM

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QUOTE(Gissle @ Jun 29 2011, 02:12 PM)
Thanks for sharing some info ealier.
Anyway , here is my question that boders me for months.
I got offers from Uni of Melbourne, Macquerie, Southampton, Manchester and City Uni ( Cass ) for actuarial science. So I was confused for some reasons because
City offers good exemption condition ( 9 papers according to my friend), business school ranking was quiet high , and there is placement or interns , plus I can see Singapore Actuary Organization state the name City .( planning to work in Singapore).
However the overall ranking of the Uni was not impressive.

Then I have Southampton, they have good reputation and good ranking, but ranking for business school I do not know. Exemption papers 8 only. No placement

Then, Manchester, according to another friend, this is a good business school , reputation good, but the actuarial science was very new ,it is establish at 2008. ranking superb, but I cant see its name in SAO or Malaysia Actuary Board.

So, I would like to ask. Is the exemption and placement more important, or the ranking and education quality is more important for the industry in future?  So what do you think ?
*
My personal opinion is, exemption is more important than the ranking of your university..
You can graduate from the best university in the world from degree in actuarial science, but if you don't have professional paper, you will be treated just like any random people.. Of course, quality of education is also important to help you in your further papers..
SoA(I assume SAO is a typo) is a us actuarial society, so naturally there isn't any uni in UK that offer SoA since they have their own body..
mumeichan
post Jul 2 2011, 10:11 PM

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QUOTE(Searingmage @ Jul 2 2011, 09:32 PM)
You can graduate from the best university in the world from degree in actuarial science, but if you don't have professional paper, you will be treated just like any random people..
*
Um no, you'll be treated like a graduated from the best uni unless you want to work in the actuarial field.

LightningFist
post Jul 2 2011, 10:15 PM

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Who knows what the best university for actuarial science is anyway? There isn't a ranking for that, if rankings are what you go by.
mumeichan
post Jul 2 2011, 10:31 PM

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QUOTE(LightningFist @ Jul 2 2011, 10:15 PM)
Who knows what the best university for actuarial science is anyway? There isn't a ranking for that, if rankings are what you go by.
*
Haha. But I suppose since ranking is helpful to get a quick general idea of the school's standing, one could leech off employer's ranking for the school's math and business departments. General ranking are not so good because they focus alot of research, publication and infrastructure which aren't as important for professional courses. Again, quick general idea, a simple heuristic to go by, that's not to say deeper research into how you wanna make your education investment worthwhile doesn't count.
LightningFist
post Jul 2 2011, 10:59 PM

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Yeah, ranking only reflects so much. Only those at the top 3 spots are consistent in nearly all the rankings, every year. Plus they have huge leads over everything below them. One caveat, they don't teach Actuarial Science!


Searingmage
post Jul 3 2011, 01:02 AM

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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Jul 2 2011, 10:11 PM)
Um no, you'll be treated like a graduated from the best uni unless you want to work in the actuarial field.
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Fine.. I phrase my wording wrongly.. laugh.gif
I always assume those who enter actuarial science course = want to work in actuarial field.
mumeichan
post Jul 3 2011, 06:05 AM

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QUOTE(Searingmage @ Jul 3 2011, 01:02 AM)
Fine.. I phrase my wording wrongly.. laugh.gif
I always assume those who enter actuarial science course = want to work in actuarial field.
*
Lol, you left out the "hmph!" biggrin.gif. Btw, even if working in actuarial field like insurance, investment and real estate, you won't get to do anything much when you're first employed anyway. Of course, when interview that time they will ask the person lor why he didn't take the paper. And they're not short of people from good universities with papers too. But if someone perform well during the interview together with a good university background, nothing's stopping him from landing the job. Paper can come later.

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Jul 3 2011, 06:09 AM
samanthalia
post Jul 16 2011, 12:44 AM

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I was offered a degree in financial mathematics? should i change my course to actuarial science?
should i just pursue financial mathematics??
AceSaboLuffy
post Jul 23 2011, 07:04 PM

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QUOTE(monkeyseemonkeydo @ May 23 2009, 05:13 PM)
Good point, communication skills is one of the most valued commodity in the actuarial world. This is because what we do in the field is so technical, that normal people will never be able to understand it. Thats is why, we need good communication to be able to present our work in laymen form to higher management. In fact, two of the UK institute papers are based around communication as the Institute has realised how important this skill is to the field. And that is why, I do stress that having a good command of English is necessary to succeed in the actuarial world.

In my opinion, the reason why more and more people with AS degree are venturing into other fields is because they cannot cope with the exams pressure and have decided that they do not want to be an actuary. However, with a degree, we do know how to manage any financial risk, and that is probably why people venture into risk management, which is extremely big now, due to the credit crisis. But bear in mind, that not all companies provide study support to these graduates, and they will most likely end up as risk managers, not actuaries.


Added on May 23, 2009, 5:23 pm

I believe that if someone is not too sure whether they like this profession, they should do more research, talk to some actuaries and go do an internship. The work of an actuary and an accountant is so different that it is hard to compare them both on an equal footing. It all boils down to the individual, I guess. I personally never saw myself as an accountant, hence the choice was easy. I do agree though that when an accountant moves to management, he would need the same qualities, however, the question is, would you like the work thrown at you before you become senior management?

I'm going to be very biased now, and say that it is true that accountants do have more flexibility, but so do actuaries. The fact that qualified accountants are a dime a dozen, is probably gonna make competition tough. Actuaries are elite. smile.gif
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Added on July 23, 2011, 7:08 pm
QUOTE(monkeyseemonkeydo @ May 23 2009, 05:13 PM)
Good point, communication skills is one of the most valued commodity in the actuarial world. This is because what we do in the field is so technical, that normal people will never be able to understand it. Thats is why, we need good communication to be able to present our work in laymen form to higher management. In fact, two of the UK institute papers are based around communication as the Institute has realised how important this skill is to the field. And that is why, I do stress that having a good command of English is necessary to succeed in the actuarial world.

In my opinion, the reason why more and more people with AS degree are venturing into other fields is because they cannot cope with the exams pressure and have decided that they do not want to be an actuary. However, with a degree, we do know how to manage any financial risk, and that is probably why people venture into risk management, which is extremely big now, due to the credit crisis. But bear in mind, that not all companies provide study support to these graduates, and they will most likely end up as risk managers, not actuaries.


Added on May 23, 2009, 5:23 pm

I believe that if someone is not too sure whether they like this profession, they should do more research, talk to some actuaries and go do an internship. The work of an actuary and an accountant is so different that it is hard to compare them both on an equal footing. It all boils down to the individual, I guess. I personally never saw myself as an accountant, hence the choice was easy. I do agree though that when an accountant moves to management, he would need the same qualities, however, the question is, would you like the work thrown at you before you become senior management?

I'm going to be very biased now, and say that it is true that accountants do have more flexibility, but so do actuaries. The fact that qualified accountants are a dime a dozen, is probably gonna make competition tough. Actuaries are elite. smile.gif
*
Hey, I do have interest in the Actuarial Profession. But I want do some research before I make a decision. Do you know that where can I find a qualified actuary in Malaysia? or in Sabah? I'm from Sabah. I would like to talk with them to gain more informations about this career. Thank you and please asap.


Added on July 23, 2011, 7:12 pm
QUOTE(Searingmage @ Jul 2 2011, 09:32 PM)
My personal opinion is, exemption is more important than the ranking of your university..
You can graduate from the best university in the world from degree in actuarial science, but if you don't have professional paper, you will be treated just like any random people.. Of course, quality of education is also important to help you in your further papers..
SoA(I assume SAO is a typo) is a us actuarial society, so naturally there isn't any uni in UK that offer SoA since they have their own body..
*
Hey, I do have interest in the Actuarial Profession. But I want do some research before I make a decision. Do you know that where can I find a qualified actuary in Malaysia? or in Sabah? I'm from Sabah. I would like to talk with them to gain more informations about this career. Thank you and please asap.

This post has been edited by AceSaboLuffy: Jul 23 2011, 07:12 PM
LightningFist
post Jul 23 2011, 08:56 PM

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An actuary in Malaysia? That'll be the day... I think there are too few. Not even sure if the name of one has been mentioned in the news. Maybe try the website, but you may struggle to find the contact details of an actual actuary.
AceSaboLuffy
post Jul 24 2011, 09:44 AM

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QUOTE(LightningFist @ Jul 23 2011, 08:56 PM)
An actuary in Malaysia? That'll be the day... I think there are too few. Not even sure if the name of one has been mentioned in the news. Maybe try the website, but you may struggle to find the contact details of an actual actuary.
*
Thanks for replying. Yeah. I've checked the website of Actuarial Society of Malaysia to find their contacts. But there is just a list of their committee members but no attached with their contact details. Is it really hard to find an actuary in Malaysia? Those posts above said that got around 50+ actuaries in Malaysia,so, I think at least can find one! Between, where do you come from ? Outside Malaysia?

Anyway, please update me if you have the latest information about the actuary or about this career !! Thanks.

This post has been edited by AceSaboLuffy: Jul 24 2011, 10:26 AM
Searingmage
post Jul 30 2011, 12:58 AM

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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Jul 3 2011, 06:05 AM)
Lol, you left out the "hmph!" biggrin.gif. Btw, even if working in actuarial field like insurance, investment and real estate, you won't get to do anything much when you're first employed anyway. Of course, when interview that time they will ask the person lor why he didn't take the paper. And they're not short of people from good universities with papers too. But if someone perform well during the interview together with a good university background, nothing's stopping him from landing the job. Paper can come later.
*
Problem comes when two equal people goes for the same job interview, with one having an extra paper than the other..
But I do agree interview performance is EXTREMELY important, more important..
Also, in Malaysia, paper is important to get a job, BUT too many paper have negative effect instead.. laugh.gif
Ideally, in Malaysia (for SoA), 3-5 papers is good.
AceSaboLuffy
post Aug 2 2011, 06:20 PM

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QUOTE(LightningFist @ Jul 23 2011, 08:56 PM)
An actuary in Malaysia? That'll be the day... I think there are too few. Not even sure if the name of one has been mentioned in the news. Maybe try the website, but you may struggle to find the contact details of an actual actuary.
*
Hey. I found that you're one of the guys who keep replying our comments, you're kinda a good guy.Hahaha rclxms.gif

And, I've read some of your posts and comments before, not all, alot of time will be vanished if I do so. LOL. So, are you really take an actuarial science degree? Which uni are you in now? What stuffs had you done in your 9 months free time?( if you still remember your comments). Just tell me what you had done. Working? Reading books related to this career?


LightningFist
post Aug 3 2011, 05:55 PM

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I worked, and yes, I'm studying Actuarial Science right now.
ryanshee8989
post Aug 3 2011, 09:42 PM

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QUOTE(LightningFist @ Aug 3 2011, 05:55 PM)
I worked, and yes, I'm studying Actuarial Science right now.
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which uni r u from?
RyukA
post Aug 4 2011, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(AceSaboLuffy @ Jul 23 2011, 07:04 PM)

Added on July 23, 2011, 7:08 pm
Hey, I do have interest in the Actuarial Profession. But I want do some research before I make a decision. Do you know that where can I find a qualified actuary in Malaysia? or in Sabah? I'm from Sabah. I would like to talk with them to gain more informations about this career. Thank you and please asap.


Added on July 23, 2011, 7:12 pm
Hey, I do have interest in the Actuarial Profession. But I want do some research before I make a decision. Do you know that where can I find a qualified actuary in Malaysia? or in Sabah? I'm from Sabah. I would like to talk with them to gain more informations about this career. Thank you and please asap.
*
Firstly. Actuarial profession is a term itself, that can have broad interpretations.
To your preference, do you in particular mean traditional roles : like pension funds, life insurance, and policy pricing,
or does it include modern roles like Risk analysis, provisions & forecasting, financial liability management, superannuation, and
reinsurance?

Until you can identify your specific interest within the actuarial scope, the range from financials to risk-evaluation, are inclined to different field of study. Perhaps by suggesting your career preference (if it applies) within the actuarial context, might help you find the transition between your past career to your goals, less complicated. (e.g. You wont want to find a life actuary to talk about transitions from accounting career to a financial risk analyst position).


Just to make sure, you get the advise you need.
Cheers.


Added on August 4, 2011, 3:05 pm
QUOTE(AceSaboLuffy @ Jul 24 2011, 09:44 AM)
Thanks for replying. Yeah. I've checked the website of Actuarial Society of Malaysia to find their contacts. But there is just a list of their committee members but no attached with their contact details. Is it really hard to find an actuary in Malaysia? Those posts above said that got around 50+ actuaries in Malaysia,so, I think at least can find one! Between, where do you come from ? Outside Malaysia?

Anyway, please update me if you have the latest information about the actuary or about this career !! Thanks.
*
I do have a few actuarial contacts on a formal basis. But it will be best to enquire on employment-related queries, as you know,
qualified actuaries in malaysia are usually very busy (considering most of them work for few firms, or lead the team). hwoever, you can always address more casual questions to actuarial institutes, or organisations, which you might get a more "dedicated and accurate" answer.
If its generally on "studies", general career prospects and suggestions, then this forum shall be deemed sufficient to get an overview of how things work.

Dont hesitate to ask.

This post has been edited by RyukA: Aug 4 2011, 03:06 PM
Angel01
post Aug 4 2011, 04:07 PM

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I got a scholarship to study Actuarial Science in University of Southampton, is that a good university for as?

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