Hi, I am a CIE A Levels student.

I take Maths (with Pure Maths 1, Statistics 1, Pure Maths 3, Mechanics 1 - unfortunately not Statistics 2, or Further Maths) and Physics, Chemistry, Biology.

I would say Maths has always been my favourite of any subject at school. I certainly get the highest grades in it.

I would say that I have more interest in finance and investments than other things: Engineering, Medicine, Computer etc.

Is there anything I should consider before attempting to take up Actuarial Science?

I know I don't have Further Maths but I know that I don't require it specifically. No I am not a Pure Maths lover (although majority of Maths we have is Pure Maths) and I rather like Probability and Statistics. Like, not adore to death.

I have never had any interest in other career directions (I tried a Law Attachment, don't like Law).

I do get quite put off by all the bad things about different kinds of courses and careers.

The degree level statistics book does bother me a bit. But then, won't any degree book bother a pre-university student?

From what I have seen and read, is this true:
While it could be hard to get a job in the Insurance industry, I am not screwed if I took an Actuarial Science major degree right? Could I still get other work quite easily, with reasonably good financial rewards?

Exemptions from a few early exams are good, it seems the remainder are few. For example if for the UK one (don't know which), you get exempted from 8, then only 7 left? (Quite scary to think these 7 will take as long as 2/4-8/10 years?).

THANKS

I am looking to start an Actuarial Science degree (hopefully if I get in) as well.

Please, anyone with knowledge in this area, or who has studied Actuarial Science/Actuarial Maths/Finance, or is in this field, could you please enlighten us with exactly what sort of maths is involved? I have seen that there is a substantial amount of algebra, calculus, and probability and statistics.

Specifically, what other maths subjects are there? And how far is the programming?

Also, I have an important question: when you start an Actuarial Science degree, are you expected to know a lot of the pure maths part? Or will they teach you most of it? What if I didn't take Further Maths?

Thank you.

Thanks for that.

I realise a lot of the skills needed for work in whichever field (finance, quantitative finance, actuary, banking) can and will be learned only then. But before that I have to do well first. I know that I cannot enter uni and simply because I don't have a further maths background I allow myself to fall behind.

Ok well I didn't take further maths that's why I'm planning to take classes or something at least to help me. I'd like to know what there was in Further Maths that I might have missed out on - CIE A level further maths is only A2 and only 2 papers (not sure if this is how it is for everyone)... while other A level boards have further math modules for AS and A2, some of which are interchangeable...

In A level maths I have covered algebra, pemutations and combinations, binomial expansion, polynomials, series/progression, differentiation, integration, differential equations, vectors, complex numbers (and others, but these are specifically mentioned in the CT list).

Now here are things I have never done/heard of (I am reading out of a non-comprehensive CT1-CT8 math content list): interpolation and local approximation, higher order derivatives, Lagrange multipliers/maximisation under constraints, Taylor's theorem (power series expansion of e^x), double integrals and changing their order, partial derivatives of two variables, (what are: exact, separarble, logistic, linear?) differential equations, matrices.

Now here are things in the CIE Further Maths syllabus I don't know: polar curves (how does this relate to polar coordinates?), area of a sector (some integration formula), sum of finite series, mathematical induction (something I am worried about), conjecture, reduction formula to evaluate definite integrals, mean values and centroids of 2D and 3D figures using strips, discs, or shells (including use of a parameter), arc lengths, complementary functions, particular integrals, the general solution, de Moivre's theorem for a positive integral exponent (to express trigonometrical ratios of multiple angles in terms of powers of trigonometrical ratios of the fundamental angle; for a positive or negative rational exponent; in expressing powers of sin θ and cos θ in terms of multiple angles; in the summation of series; in finding and using the nth roots of unity),
some vector product rules with |a||b|sinθ n where n is the unit vector (a2 b3 – a3 b2) i + (a3 b1 – a1 b3) j + (a1 b2 – a2 b1) k, the axioms of a linear (vector) space, linear independence, determine whether a given set of vectors is dependent or independent, the subspace spanned by a given set of vectors, a space is a linearly
independent set of vectors that spans the space, the dimension of a space is the number of vectors in a basis, represent linear transformations, ‘column space', ‘row space', ‘range space' and ‘null space', the rank of a square matrix, and use (without proof) the relation between the rank, the
dimension of the null space and the order of the matrix, use methods associated with matrices and linearspaces in the context of the solution of a set of linear
equations, evaluate the determinant of a square matrix and find the inverse of a non-singular matrix, ‘eigenvalue' and ‘eigenvector', as applied to square matrices, express a matrix in the form QDQ^-1.

What do I need to do? How much of the further pure maths is relevant? Is actuarial maths all about the vectors and matrices, because I don't like vectors and I haven't learned a lot of matrices, as exemplified by the above.

(School said prior statistics knowledge is not required)

Thank you. I hope this is understandable.

-About not taking further maths, it was because it was only A2 - of course now I regret it, but it did not seem like the right choice then, and I wanted to maximise my grades - I was wrong, of course, because A2 further maths would have helped immensely. It's not too late (to catch up before heading to uni?)

This post has been edited by LightningFist: Aug 24 2010, 11:23 AM

Haha RyukA you make it sound like it's all quite simple.

I know a lot of posts go up saying actuarial science doesn't have the serious hard kind of straight maths - I like the sound of that, because I am not a hard fan of vectors or trigonometric graphs.

However, looking at all the pure math topics they have, especially matrices and vectors, I kinda go like "Whaaah" cos who the hell likes that stuff anyway.

And mumeichan is telling me one god book will help me. I will definitely check it out after my exams.

Mumeichan are you in a UK school now?

And RyukA how is ANU? Do they have a July intake for Actuarial Science, and is it the same as the Feb intake? I can get in without Further Maths you reckon?

Thanks for all the info guys.

RyukA: I see, TY, so you just switch up the classes and end up the same. Great

Well I eyed Actuarial Science a little while back, too bad didn't take Further while I could have. My school Does offer it, and the schools won't be pleased that I didn't take it while I could have.

I like maths and calculus enough. The school says "prior knowledge of statistics is not required". I did S1 and I'm doing M1, didn't do S2. Suppose that doesn't matter then. (M = mechanics). Hope to get A*. But you know how it is, the results come out after application, and ultimately A* is not the requirement, but necessary if they hold. if they "hold" I am lucky, if they don't then ...

I feel like I should tell the schools (compulsory personal statement) in my application that I have time from November 2010 till September 2010, and that I want to maybe get a work attachment and take math classes - actuarial stuff. Is that part about classes appropriate at all? They could think I am industrious, but they could think I am not prepared. And I want to make it clear that I am definitely ready, but I want to prep myself for the work ahead. How do I say this? Please help.

CIE A levels: Maths and the 3 natural sciences.

Applying to Warwick, LSE soon, but because Aussies start 1st in Feb, I'll wait and apply for July. I was told a couple don't give provisional offers based on forecasts while some do.

What am I gonna do next? I hope to first get in for Actuarial Science. People tell me "don't worry you'll get in for sure" but I also keep hearing "you sure you don't need Further".
I know it's not in the entry prereqs and I'm hoping traditional science subjects will complement maths and that'll get me in. I've seen people get in with worse. However the odds do not appeal to applicants, lol, there are few places only.

Will have about 9 months of time. Take a break (which I have not had, cos I joined A levels right after secondary). Get work experience? Only serious thing I have done is an attachment in a law firm, but more on that later.

Was never really sure what to do. Eng? Law? Actuarial? Sure, if I look at any uni material, be it actuarial, engineering, or law, it seems so far-fetched and impossible.

However, I decided since Actuarial Science is equally demanding as Engineering, and though I like "mechanics" in terms of maths, I don't really like the engineering stuff. Statistics and maths are nice enough, and like a lot of people said, Actuarial isn't maths, maths lovers should do maths instead. But I know math-loving-people who go into actuarial science too. Did not like law as much. Thought I would want to do it - because you don't need to have done it before, and you could still do it.

For actuarial, is it that way too? I know an actuarial science class is gonna be competitive. I mean, they will be serious, they will be brilliant, and I have to be ready. I am ready.
All I need is some exposure, that's why I'm keen on finding out what I can do to prepare for it. Not sure if simply looking at past papers helps. Maths classes? I don't even know where to begin.

---

Added on September 11, 2010, 10:59 pmBy the way guys, I'd like to ask - Which is a better degree to study:

BSc Statistics / MSci Statistical Science

or

BSc Statistics, Economics, and Finance

whether one intends to be an actuary or work in risk management or finance or investment? (both are offered at the same university)

The BSc Statistics has a lot of statistics and maths subjects common to other Actuarial Science courses. I ask this because I have 5 choices and only 1 or 2 of them are called BSc Actuarial Science. I'm not interested in non-applied maths and didn't take further so I won't be applying to any Mathematics courses.

Another university has BSc Actuarial Science and BSc Business Mathematics and Statistics. They said the BSc AS is directed towards actuarial study, although the other BSc many more options in statistics and risk subjects. But I suppose they should be very close.

This post has been edited by LightningFist: Sep 11 2010, 10:59 PM

Statistics, Economics and Finance or Statistics is like a back up for me. Yes, LOL, my "back-up" is UCL. Because I really hope to get into the accredited, exemptions-carrying course.

I don't really like economics thaat much, and I understand actuarial science has a part of it but not the entire thing. Similarly in economics they'll have maths, etc.

I sure hope there are jobs. It's not too bad for fresh graduates but it's just like any other field I suppose? Except physicians which are "in demand"...

If one is serious about a career in actuarial work then a diploma in actuarial science is highly unlikely (even if it's a postgrad diploma, which I doubt you are referring to, unless are referring to a degree).

It's merely impossible to get the job? There are hundreds of actuarial science graduates around the world, a job is not that easy to get, places are not high and competition is stiff.

Well when I said "job" it includes everything, i.e. trainee positions, associate positions, and higher positions. A job in this specific field does not come by easily.

I think it was mentioned that there are only ~50 fully qualified actuaries working in Malaysia. And it's not certain whether they are Associates or Fellows, with the ASM or otherwise.

How many actuarial science graduates there are in Malaysia, I would not know.

Are your friends actuarial science students? Are they employed?

Ok, so the number grew. I said "around 50" because around this year this information was still published occasionally. Of course I can't keep track of the number of people.

Technically an associate is "qualified", just not as qualified as a fellow.

ASM = Actuarial Society of Malaysia. If these actuaries, fellows or associates, are practicing in Msia, they would most likely be registered or affiliated with the ASM and/or one or more internationally recognised institutes.

---

Added on November 5, 2010, 3:03 pmThere is no such thing as a promise of millions. An actuary is most likely not self-employed, and he/she will work for a company at a salary. There may not be as many opportunities for big bonuses, as say, a trader. Furthermore, as RyukA has detailed, the risks are inherent, and an immense level of commitment is needed.

It is clear that is it already quite difficult for an entry level worker / student to break into the field. If that was not enough of an impediment, you have competition from not only actuarial science graduates but math graduates, economics graduates, engineering graduates, statistics graduates, physics graduates etc.

This post has been edited by LightningFist: Nov 5 2010, 03:03 PM

It is inadvisable to do a below-undergrad level diploma or foundation for actuarial science unless you are 100% certain that you both want to do it and will secure a position for further study .

What do you mean it is reserved? In education, selective courses usually only admit capable students. Some elitist institutions do tend to admit students with less than the expected qualifications, based on connections, money etc, but this is something that is not openly disclosed, and such things are not commonplace.

If you look at it as "reserved", top schools will only admit the best applicants to their classes, as places are limited. If there are extra places (this happens rarely), they'll still admit students. If it is oversubscribed, they'll select those they think are the best. You cannot make reservations, but you can make yourself eligible for consideration.

Imperfecion, perhaps you should experience a period in an insurance company? Though that may not give you insight into what you might actually study later on, it would grant you a rough idea of the kind of work they do.

You mean actuary

Not everyone wants to be in investment banking. For some people the hours are too long, the job is not as stable, the stress is too great. While others may like it.
But it's not like they look for specific degrees anyway. Anyhow the major IBs overseas have freezed hiring, and a lot of inexperienced/less esperienced people get laid off.

Gomes do you work in that industry (banking or finance), just out of curiosity?

An actuarial degree is irrelevant. You are an actuary if you work or worked as an actuary, and to work as one you have to be qualified, either as an Associate or Fellow (in the UK), or elsewhere.

To be a new Associate of the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries (The Actuarial Profession) you need to:

- Have passed or be exempted for all 9 CT papers
- Have passed or be exempted for all 3 CA papers
- Complete one year's worth of work-based skills in the four key dimensions of practical application of actuarial skills, professional and ethical, communication and commercial.
- Attend a one-day professionalism course for Associates

To be a new Fellow you need to:

- Have passed or be exempted from any 2 (in one case 3) ST papers
- Have passed 1 SA paper
- Fulfill the work-based skills requirement (includes 3 years supervised actuarial work)
- Attend a two-day professionalism course within 12 months of being admitted as a Fellow

Anyone anywhere may take the exams, preliminary or otherwise.

I believe you are eligible for a discounted rate as well.

I believe it can be held here. Just check the website and register through them after confirming the details.

Quite obvious, isn't it? No offence, but at A Level there are hardly enough subjects pertinent to Actuarial Science for you to be at odds when trying to choose 3/4 appropriate subjects.

Who knows what the best university for actuarial science is anyway? There isn't a ranking for that, if rankings are what you go by.

Yeah, ranking only reflects so much. Only those at the top 3 spots are consistent in nearly all the rankings, every year. Plus they have huge leads over everything below them. One caveat, they don't teach Actuarial Science!

An actuary in Malaysia? That'll be the day... I think there are too few. Not even sure if the name of one has been mentioned in the news. Maybe try the website, but you may struggle to find the contact details of an actual actuary.

I worked, and yes, I'm studying Actuarial Science right now.