I believe that people are doing Actuarial Science for the wrong reasons. I hope that this post will actually shatter the disillusionment that people have. Don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to discourage people to pursue this challenging course, its challenge being its ultimate reward. However, it is disheartening to see so many people get into this course and ending up not being qualified actuaries, because they fail to understand what this course is all about.
First and foremost, my qualifications: I have wanted to do Actuarial Science since I was in Form 4. In college, I did my research and I have looked at the qualifications provided in the UK, US, Australia and Malaysia. I have now finished my final year in Actuarial Science in the UK. I have interned in an insurance company in Malaysia as well as in my current location. And I have been in your shoes before.

To get the ball rolling, here are some misconceptions that need to be cleared up:

1. I want to do Actuarial Science because I like Math.
This is the biggest misconception that people have about Actuarial Science. In actual fact, a good knowledge of Mathematics is necessary, but a great knowledge is not. In the UK, the first 8 professional papers are somewhat Maths-based, but the tougher papers at the end are all written papers, which require a good command of English, a good knowledge of the insurance industry and good critical thinking skills. Throughout my course, the most difficult branch of Maths we did was Calculus and Linear Algebra, and that is not saying much. When you do start working, you will realise that the only Math you need are mostly addition and subtraction. Computer Programming will be the most important skill you will ever need. And to all of those who says that they need Further Math in their A-Levels, I did Math, Economics and Law. If you like Math, do a Mathematics degree.

2. I want to do Actuarial Science because the pay is good.
True, we have one of the highest starting salaries in the business world. Not by much though. The thing is, a qualified actuary does earn a lot. But to get that qualification, one has to pass professional papers, and those are not easy by a mile. The average time it takes to pass all your papers in Malaysia is around 6 years, depending on how good you are. (Some do take more than 10 years) And truth be told, all other professions will be able to earn a satisfactory remuneration within 10 years. If you want the money, go into Investment Banking. In a magazine which I have read, in business, while all other financial workers are paying off their mortgage for their first house, Investment Bankers are buying their second home.

3. I can pass all my professional exams if I work hard enough.
I want to believe this. I really do want to believe this. But with only 50 qualified actuaries in Malaysia, doesn’t it make you doubt that the only reason people are failing is because of a lack of effort? Studying is easy enough. Working is easy enough. Studying while working is not. While I was working in Malaysia, a colleague of mine works from 9 to 7 everyday, if he is lucky. On his way to and back from work, he studies on the LRT. If there is overtime, he will need to stay back and continue working. On weekends, he studies. At night, after being thoroughly exhausted at work, he studies. And while doing all these, he needs to find time for his girlfriend, family and friends. Now, ask yourself this: can you picture yourself doing that for a year? 3 years? 10 years?

I am really glad I chose this course. I know I would spend half my time working staring in a computer at spreadsheets. I know it will be a hard few years in front of me. I also know that I want nothing more than to qualify as a professional actuary, as I do love what I do very much. But I wished I knew what I was in for before I made the decision. And I do hope that people who read this will have the ability to make an informed decision about the course that is Actuarial Science.

Good effort on opening this thread to clearify what exactly Actuary profession is. I also want to become actuary. I think why malaysia has only 50 actuary maybe due to the paid in malaysia not as attractive as western countries. If I am a (qualified) actuary someday, I will rather go to UK/US look for higher pay (I think at least GP2000). Another reason is the facility/ opportunity(eg, internship) in Malaysia is very little too, only a few institutions are offering actuarial science and most of them aren't able to gain examption in their course, they rather produce the degree in actuarial science rather than train an actuary.

I also have done my research on it. Since you have been studying AS and now working, so I may need your opinion/advise. I'm going to do Maths & Econs degree in NTU coming this august. My formal plan was go into NTU's business and major in AS to gain exemptions but they failed to offer me the course. So I change my plan by do self-study & register examination either during school time or after graduation with degree in maths & econs. I know my life is gonna be very tough, so may i ask you that is this degree relevant to actuarial science?

Actually I still doubt myself am I really like AS or rather maths. So, can you briefly describe what tasks or problems usually an Actuary will deal? What is the most important responsibly /role as an Actuary? Lastly, may i know why you still choose to become an actuary since you have realized that it is not fully maths?

This post has been edited by zidanedagger: May 23 2009, 09:18 AM

wow, that shed some light to me. Mind telling me what was your starting salary?

I don't know anyone in the actuarial field, but I know ppl in investment banking and even though they make boat loads of money they work almost non-stop and have pretty much no social life. There was 1 fella in local Citibank: very high 5-figure salary, company car (BMW 5-series), company house (swanky penthouse) but work 6.5 days a week almost full day chasing US and local market. And most of them engage in risky behavior to de-stress (smoke, drink, sex etc).

So don't just make your career decision based on salary. It's a mistake most ppl (including myself) make.

Cks2k2 are you in actuarial field?

Then what is u guys opinion for Civil Engineering field? Is it a good field to join in and does it got a bright future?

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Added on May 23, 2009, 10:18 amThen what is u guys opinion for Civil Engineering field? Is it a good field to join in and does it got a bright future?

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Added on May 23, 2009, 10:18 amThen what is u guys opinion for Civil Engineering field? Is it a good field to join in and does it got a bright future?

This post has been edited by yunchee: May 23 2009, 10:18 AM

Very useful post. Is it true that one insurance company only will hire one actuarist?

yunchee go make ur own post...

I believe it is true. On the other hand, although company only need 1 Actuary ( a lot of people mistaken that actuarial profession is actua + rist, even my english teacher say I'm wrong but in fact there is no actuarist word in dictionary and actuary is a special term for actuarial profession) but they still employ fresh graduate and train them for future replacement or send them to other branches. This mostly can see in those western countries but not in Malaysia.

This also applies for engineering.Most of my maths now are still based on basic maths.

And in real life applications,computers do all the dirty job for you.Computer programming is important,IMO.

Great post, hope the mods can pin this up as I do see a lot of people having misconceptions. (including myself for the 3rd one.)

Just want to ask one (couples of) things.
Actuaries do need communication skill don't they?
And often they are offered such high salaries are due to their position who can make crucial decision, right?

Also, it seems that there are more and more people with AS degree venturing other fields for risk managing task. What's your opinion on this?

This post has been edited by tanjinjack: May 23 2009, 12:22 PM

Nice thread, I chose not to go through with this field of study because of all 3 reasons.
There has to be a reason why there are so few qualified actuaries in Malaysia, furthermore with the recent publicity this profession has garnered, there has been a drastic influx of students taking up this major, I'd say difficult competition in the future, plus the cut-off rate is rather cruel if you know what I mean. Also I notice several school teachers of mine holding actuarial science degrees and I wonder what happen?

Actuaries need a good communication skill.
IMO Yes, why they offerred well salary because of their unique critical thinking skill, combination of knowledge(finance, insurance, maths, econs & risks) & ability to analysis risks with a wide range of factors.
IMO also the ability to determine the correct factors is far more important than your ability to calculate where calculation is just a small part of the whole project & assume that you already master them. (I need TS to clearify me whether my statement correct or not)
I only heard a lot of AS degree holder in Malaysia and most of them ended up not doing AS instead go to financial industry. Whether they are doing risk management or not I'm not so sure.

This post has been edited by zidanedagger: May 23 2009, 12:38 PM

I heard from somewhere, most Malaysian actuaries, despite being Fellows, do not work in Malaysia, and hence is not kept in record in ASM.

Okay. Thanks for the info.

I'm going to try to answer your questions. First and foremost, a degree in Actuarial Science is not necessary for a career in Actuarial Science. The only reason why people choose to do a degree in Actuarial Science is because they want exemptions from professional papers and want a leg up in them. However, I know for a fact that UK companies do not specifically employ students who did Actuarial Science - they hire people who have any Mathematical background. This is because the papers which you get exemptions from (CT1 - 8) are not difficult. In fact, CT7, the economics paper is just a simpler version of the A Levels Economics Paper! I know people who complete their CTs in a year and a half worth of studying, without any exemptions. One more problem I encounter when having a degree in Actuarial Science is that you pigeon hole yourself into that profession. It doesn't allow you to diversify into many other financial branches as it is so specialised in its own way, and that might be hard for a person who wants to find a job which is not actuarial-related in the future. Truth be told, I applied to do Mathematics in Cambridge as well, and if I had gotten the offer, would have accepted it straightaway.

It is good that you are trying to find out that if it is Maths that you like, or is it AS. Actuary's main industry is insurance. They are risk managers, they try to maintain the solvency of the company by managing the risk effectively. In a nutshell, the work that an actuary does in insurance can be divided into two - Pricing and Valuation. In Pricing, actuaries have to price insurance products so that the company will make a profit. This is not as easy as it sounds because the way insurance works, the company only suffers a loss in the future, and it is up to an actuary to price the product in a way that it is improbable for the company to go bankrupt anytime in the future. That is why we have projections and forecasts. In Valuation, actuaries need to take the premiums that people pay to invest in the best possible assets. This is necessary for the company to make a profit, because many products only allow to break-even, and it is up to the actuary to find the most valuable financial assets to invest in. There are consultant and contractor actuaries as well. They move from company to company advising insurance companies on how best to price their products, how they value their products, how they meet regulation, etc... They are one of the most well-paid people in the field. An actuary can become Chief Financial Officer and eventually CEO of a company. The fact is that insurance companies need us. We are the experts when it comes to the financial matters of an insurance firm.
Do let me know if you require more information.

I like the work. I like the challenge. I like the fact that I have different stuff thrown at me everyday. Sometimes, it does come to a point when I ask myself if it is worth it, especially having to come back from work and put myself in front of books. But I genuinely love the job I am given, and I really don't see myself doing anything else. I think it is the interest that keeps me here, and the fact that I do like applying Mathematics in practical business problems that helps me maintain my interest in the field. Plus, the fact that once I qualify, I'll get a FIA behind my name, which is pretty cool.

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Added on May 23, 2009, 5:04 pmNo, that is not true. If that were true, we will be out of work in a few years time, when all the young guns come and take over our positions.

Back in Malaysia, due to the low pass rates, there are usually around 1 - 2 qualified actuaries and many actuarial students in each company. I believe that AIA has around 10 qualified actuaries. In the UK, my team alone had 6 qualifed actuaries. And we were only one really really small part of the company, which I believe had around 60 qualified actuaries alone.

Actuaries have the highest turnover I have ever seen. This is because they are so demanded that they just pretty much move from company to company in search of higher pay.

This post has been edited by monkeyseemonkeydo: May 23 2009, 05:04 PM

For someone who aren't too sure whether they will like this profession or not, would you advise them to do accountancy instead? Since a good accountant would need the same important qualities like analytical ability, critical thinking & communication when they move into management. And many too ended up as CEO aka big bucks. And it is a LOT more flexible when it comes to employment.

Good point, communication skills is one of the most valued commodity in the actuarial world. This is because what we do in the field is so technical, that normal people will never be able to understand it. Thats is why, we need good communication to be able to present our work in laymen form to higher management. In fact, two of the UK institute papers are based around communication as the Institute has realised how important this skill is to the field. And that is why, I do stress that having a good command of English is necessary to succeed in the actuarial world.

In my opinion, the reason why more and more people with AS degree are venturing into other fields is because they cannot cope with the exams pressure and have decided that they do not want to be an actuary. However, with a degree, we do know how to manage any financial risk, and that is probably why people venture into risk management, which is extremely big now, due to the credit crisis. But bear in mind, that not all companies provide study support to these graduates, and they will most likely end up as risk managers, not actuaries.

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Added on May 23, 2009, 5:23 pmI believe that if someone is not too sure whether they like this profession, they should do more research, talk to some actuaries and go do an internship. The work of an actuary and an accountant is so different that it is hard to compare them both on an equal footing. It all boils down to the individual, I guess. I personally never saw myself as an accountant, hence the choice was easy. I do agree though that when an accountant moves to management, he would need the same qualities, however, the question is, would you like the work thrown at you before you become senior management?

I'm going to be very biased now, and say that it is true that accountants do have more flexibility, but so do actuaries. The fact that qualified accountants are a dime a dozen, is probably gonna make competition tough. Actuaries are elite.

This post has been edited by monkeyseemonkeydo: May 23 2009, 05:23 PM

serious, this post should be pinned. Cleared lots of stuff for me.

(1)So, is it taking maths & econ degree will be safer to me if I still have doubt about become actuary? But, the problem is what can math & econ degree do beside doing actuary, the course states that with this degree can do risk analyst, finance industry and so on....But wouldn't the employer more appreciate those student with degree in finance & banking or account&finance and so on....?

(2)Huh!? very cool man! Looks like phd, doctor, prof....

(3)May i know how actuaries work as a team? Wouldn't they crash on different opinions/views about pricing product or valuation?

May i ask that is it actuary only well-paid when working in insurance company? How about working in Central bank, financial company, commercial bank, consultant firm and so on? May i ask what actuarial tasks for you is the most excited & interested?

Thank for answering and clear my doubt!

This post has been edited by zidanedagger: May 23 2009, 07:58 PM