Well guys ...
I'm a bit confused now ~_~
Can you guys give me some advice please ?
What should I do now ?
I'm having spm next year ~
I'm in Form 4 Commerce Stream ( Accounts , Business , Economic and Art , taking + Math as well )
Thank you .

I'm aware of the Economics and Finance credit which can be fulfilled by relatively easy or introductory course. A-Levels Econs is already enough of the Economics VEE. The most basic Finance course in my former uni fufills the Coporate Finance VEE. Accounts has absolutely nothing to do with the actuarial field. And the math I'm dealing with is a tough as as what the Engineering students do. I don't know about physics. Well the Malaysian students in my former uni were either doing actuarial science or engineering, so I do know at least that much.

Do you know what accounting is?

ps: Anyway, I'm not interested in trying to convince anyone any further that accounting is nor part of the actuarial field. Not trying to be lanci, just that I've done my part to summarize what I've learned so far since I'm doing an actuarial degree myself. To anyone who is interested in going into this field as well, it's you can either do more research beforehand or discover it sooner or later during your studies.

Well, accounting isn't really part of actuarial science, even though we learn accounting in our classes. About projecting future financial statements, even of an insurance company, it's the accountant's job, not the actuary, actuary working for insurance company dont really involve in the accounting. As i say, in an insurance company. Why would an insurance company hire an actuary to do accounts anyway. Actuary expertise in risk analysis, which in an insurance company, is used to earn money, not to keep record of the money.

And about accounting, it's more than just book keeping. It involves also budgeting, financial analysis, giving advice on the company's financial status and many more.

True that insurance company use a lot of assumptions, but it's mathematical based assumptions. Actuary judge based on their mathematical or rish analysis. Meanwhile, accountants judge based on their financial analysis.

Actuary and Accountants are actually two different thing overall. Actuaries are the ones who help the company to earn money, by managing risk or in an insurance company, decide on insurance policies, so that they company will earn money. Meanwhile, accountants are the ones who keep track of the company's earning and expenses, and advice the company on their financial status, hence advising them about their budgets.
Sometimes, it doesnt matter whether someone graduated already or not. How well a person knows about a topic depends how deeps the person did research on that topic, not really on how how long the person are directly involved in the field. One simple example, a person who teaches physics in university for 10 years and a person who did research on physics on perhaps 5 years? Who do you think know better physics? A more appropriate example, a person who have 10 years experience in raising animals as compared to a person who spent only 5 years in researching on how to raise animals. Who knows better about raising animals?

True that a person who involves in that field have more experience, but doesnt means he knows more about the field as compared to someone who did research on that field.

I've not graduated and I'm only preparing for my first paper. But I've already gone through the detail syllabus of all my subjects and also the actuarial papers. My friends have all passed at least two papers and the seniors have passed 4. Some are even working as full time employees in consultancy firms already. And also, even if I didn't know all these people, that actuarial doesn't involve accounting is a simple fact that can be easily reasoned if one knows what actuarial and accountancy means.
There is certainly a paper on Financial Math and Coporate Finance but there is no paper on financial reporting because that's not what actuaries do. Actuaries don't analyze financial statements, accountants do that. Accountants don't do date sampling that's not their job and it won't benefit them to study high level mathematics. Accounts maintain the flow of business through the records of all transactions that happen in a company. It's doesn't involve alot of math(the hardest is areas and gradients of simple graphs) and all calculations are done using computers.

An actuary doesn't analyze financial statements. All the financial terms he'll ever need to know to use in the mathematical models and method of analysis he has learned is though within his actuarial subjects. There is no need to even take the most basic accounting course to figure that out.

The most basic job description I can give about an actuary is that they count that 10% of the policy holders are going to get into an accident and if the company need at least 1 million to pay them all of or else they are screwed. Or he might calculate that the value of a property is set to raise at 3% per annum. Or that 15% of Malaysia like Coke Pepsi and 7UP only. It hardly matters if the company doesn't even have accounts. The accountant on the other hand analyzes where the cash is coming from, which ares are giving problem, which areas have delays, where payments are going, is there excessive wastage somewhere, what should be declared as what for taxation, what are potential assets and liabilities which are so apparent, managing the value of assets and liabilities and so on. And at the end of the day the managers and directors make the calls. It's not the actuaries problem if they decide to prepare just 9 million for claims and take the risk, it's not the actuaries concern if they decide to screw the account to evade taxes, it's not the actuaries concern if they decide to label an appraising piece of land as a liability.

Yeah, somehow i have to agree. I have to say the only reason I reply to this thread is that there are too many misleading information about actuarial science. There are just too many people complaining how hard to become an actuary from what they heard. They stopped when they thinks it's difficult to achieve. In the end, they achieve nothing.
Actuary didnt get paid for doing nothing and actuary do not just happened to "pass"the exam. There are reasons behind the high salary and good job specs and it didnt come by just complaining and do nothing. Yet, Actuary didnt just become the best job in 2010 for nothing.

If you are determined for a career, you will work hard for it. There is no easy way out in making a successful career. Complaining how hard a career can be are just excuses of lazy people who do not want to work hard. When i was in high school, I used to think that I can get a high paying job that doesnt need to work hard. Guess what, no such thing. Before I decided to take up an actuarial degree, I heard things about actuarial science and how hard it is. Guess what, i am finishing second year now and i passed my first professional paper with only one trial and studied for only one month.

We're not arguing about anything, me, jpysh, sear and the other are all taking out time to type what we've have learnt so far. If you're already working and wish to tell us how your perspective changed from a student to an actuary then we're all ears. 

If you're not interested in contributing anything, why don't you just stfu and masturbate to porn.

Local Universities does offer this degree? Is the creditability recognised? This means scholarship is an option for me?

I assume you are a malaysian as well as you know about IPT. Mind to share with me on how you made your way through to where you are now? Which university are you studying at? Can you tell me a little bit on what you study there?

Questions:
*Is it a good idea to major in other degrees (like computering) first and then get to actuarial science by doing exams like what dubai_gal's doing?
*If i choose to major in actuarial science, my options in job opportunities will narrow, wouldn't it be risky if i couldn't get a job as the actuarial science course is technical?

If you are determined to become an actuary, just do an actuarial degree. It saves a lot of troubles and you get to concentrate on stuff in achieving your career. What you should be worrying is, do you really want to be an actuary? (Or, you are just another someone who thinks that 'I am good in Maths so I do Actuarial Science because I don't like anything else'. No offense though ) If your main interest lies in Maths, a degree in Maths will be better.

Thanks for the information . Well, I still have 6 months for me to decide which course is suitable. And here i am doing my research on this degree.
Exactly how many papers do you need to become a qualified actuary? What is VEE?

Thanks for that.

I realise a lot of the skills needed for work in whichever field (finance, quantitative finance, actuary, banking) can and will be learned only then. But before that I have to do well first. I know that I cannot enter uni and simply because I don't have a further maths background I allow myself to fall behind.

Ok well I didn't take further maths that's why I'm planning to take classes or something at least to help me. I'd like to know what there was in Further Maths that I might have missed out on - CIE A level further maths is only A2 and only 2 papers (not sure if this is how it is for everyone)... while other A level boards have further math modules for AS and A2, some of which are interchangeable...

In A level maths I have covered algebra, pemutations and combinations, binomial expansion, polynomials, series/progression, differentiation, integration, differential equations, vectors, complex numbers (and others, but these are specifically mentioned in the CT list).

Now here are things I have never done/heard of (I am reading out of a non-comprehensive CT1-CT8 math content list): interpolation and local approximation, higher order derivatives, Lagrange multipliers/maximisation under constraints, Taylor's theorem (power series expansion of e^x), double integrals and changing their order, partial derivatives of two variables, (what are: exact, separarble, logistic, linear?) differential equations, matrices.

Now here are things in the CIE Further Maths syllabus I don't know: polar curves (how does this relate to polar coordinates?), area of a sector (some integration formula), sum of finite series, mathematical induction (something I am worried about), conjecture, reduction formula to evaluate definite integrals, mean values and centroids of 2D and 3D figures using strips, discs, or shells (including use of a parameter), arc lengths, complementary functions, particular integrals, the general solution, de Moivre's theorem for a positive integral exponent (to express trigonometrical ratios of multiple angles in terms of powers of trigonometrical ratios of the fundamental angle; for a positive or negative rational exponent; in expressing powers of sin θ and cos θ in terms of multiple angles; in the summation of series; in finding and using the nth roots of unity),
some vector product rules with |a||b|sinθ n where n is the unit vector (a2 b3 – a3 b2) i + (a3 b1 – a1 b3) j + (a1 b2 – a2 b1) k, the axioms of a linear (vector) space, linear independence, determine whether a given set of vectors is dependent or independent, the subspace spanned by a given set of vectors, a space is a linearly
independent set of vectors that spans the space, the dimension of a space is the number of vectors in a basis, represent linear transformations, ‘column space', ‘row space', ‘range space' and ‘null space', the rank of a square matrix, and use (without proof) the relation between the rank, the
dimension of the null space and the order of the matrix, use methods associated with matrices and linearspaces in the context of the solution of a set of linear
equations, evaluate the determinant of a square matrix and find the inverse of a non-singular matrix, ‘eigenvalue' and ‘eigenvector', as applied to square matrices, express a matrix in the form QDQ^-1.

What do I need to do? How much of the further pure maths is relevant? Is actuarial maths all about the vectors and matrices, because I don't like vectors and I haven't learned a lot of matrices, as exemplified by the above.

(School said prior statistics knowledge is not required)

Thank you. I hope this is understandable.

-About not taking further maths, it was because it was only A2 - of course now I regret it, but it did not seem like the right choice then, and I wanted to maximise my grades - I was wrong, of course, because A2 further maths would have helped immensely. It's not too late (to catch up before heading to uni?)

Let's start by:
Why do you want to be an actuary? or why do you choose an actuarial degree? * to clear some misconception*

I think it's better that he starts by reading all the actuary related threads here first.

Well, asking him why he wants to be an actuary is a good question. But I think the answer for his original question has been posted a few time here already and he'll probably find alot of useful info from reading past topic.

Well when I said "job" it includes everything, i.e. trainee positions, associate positions, and higher positions. A job in this specific field does not come by easily.

I think it was mentioned that there are only ~50 fully qualified actuaries working in Malaysia. And it's not certain whether they are Associates or Fellows, with the ASM or otherwise.

How many actuarial science graduates there are in Malaysia, I would not know.

Are your friends actuarial science students? Are they employed?

Is there other jobs besides actuarial-related jobs that a actuarial graduate can do? Like many of engineering graduate end up teaching or stuff like that?
Either the thread is too long or, in this case (actuarial), there are too many threads so the information are scattered all over.

I always wonder too, are most people that want to study actuarial merely attracted by millions of dollar they would make in the future than interest itself IF they pulled through? I mean like, those who loves maths do  a degree in maths or statistics would normally end up in doing jobs with average pay, and here comes actuarial that promises millions for them, who wouldn't want to study it? Basically, capitallism means MONEY.

the concept of "actuaries" is different for now than years ago.
your term of "actuary" as intepreted, most probably the traditional actuaries, which are both "life actuaries" and "casualty actuaries" which work closely to insurance related firms.
As I said earlier, the field is now diversified to other commercial context.
As long as there's risk, and there's a way to play with that risk, then you can expect an actuary will be needed to play the role.

Actuary is more of a qualification than a career. One with actuarial skills, work as a senior director in firms, an actuarial researcher,
actuarial analyst, Financial advisor, consultant, liquidator and much more, but the fact they are still called a 'qualified actuary', is not because of their career,
but their professional qualfication at the level of FIA (fellowship).

*just to update, 2010 Feb: Institute of Actuaries (Aus & UK), revise the definition of "actuary" to cover both Associates and Fellows, rather than just Fellows.
So, in a verbal context, it is differentiated as Junior Actuaries ( part I completion), and Senior Actuaries ( AIA, FIA)

Hello guys, regard to the actuarial exam.

how can a non-actuarial student sitting for the preliminary exam ?(ex. the CT1-8 paper)
(i am an under-graduated engineering student and interested in actuarial field, plan to develop my future career in actuaries)

the exam will be held local or oversea ? where can i start in order to sitting for the exam? any requirement
thanks for the help

Thanks for sharing some info ealier.
Anyway , here is my question that boders me for months.
I got offers from Uni of Melbourne, Macquerie, Southampton, Manchester and City Uni ( Cass ) for actuarial science. So I was confused for some reasons because
City offers good exemption condition ( 9 papers according to my friend), business school ranking was quiet high , and there is placement or interns , plus I can see Singapore Actuary Organization state the name City .( planning to work in Singapore).
However the overall ranking of the Uni was not impressive.

Then I have Southampton, they have good reputation and good ranking, but ranking for business school I do not know. Exemption papers 8 only. No placement

Then, Manchester, according to another friend, this is a good business school , reputation good, but the actuarial science was very new ,it is establish at 2008. ranking superb, but I cant see its name in SAO or Malaysia Actuary Board.

So, I would like to ask. Is the exemption and placement more important, or the ranking and education quality is more important for the industry in future?  So what do you think ?

Um no, you'll be treated like a graduated from the best uni unless you want to work in the actuarial field.

Lol, you left out the "hmph!" . Btw, even if working in actuarial field like insurance, investment and real estate, you won't get to do anything much when you're first employed anyway. Of course, when interview that time they will ask the person lor why he didn't take the paper. And they're not short of people from good universities with papers too. But if someone perform well during the interview together with a good university background, nothing's stopping him from landing the job. Paper can come later.