PCWork, there's a mistake though,

There's nothing new in Audio, everything is copied here and there. The only difference is what you chose to implement and how you wish to present your art akin to an artist. Let's take RSA's SR71A for an example, it's really just a straight out Mint without the Multiloop, Xin's Reference is a two channel AD8616 with a buffered ground using AD8531.(READ: cmoy with beefed up opamp and ground) All these are signs on how audio technology is really just this much, being exploited to death.

A rough explanation on the topology used helps users to have a quick understanding on the performance and the sound quality they will perceive. It'll help your promotion in fact EDIT: Might as well be clear on my stand. Revealing the topology is not going to sell your circuit away for free. Only the value of the components (choice of opamp, resistors, capacitors) will possibly affect you (though I highly doubt anyone would want to copy it as there would be too many downsides to it). To show empathy,I'm also working on something similar for commercialization and I can really understand your eagerness to protect your product.

This post has been edited by LittleGhost: Mar 24 2009, 09:28 AM

true dat...well said EFN! indeed most (if not all) amp casings can be dismantled anyways. its really no biggie for if its ground breaking technology, then have it patented. if one commercialize it, there will be ppl opening it up for more than a simple visual looksee. no one really cares much cos there's just too much stuff out there - besides cloning takes alot of resources too & its much easier to use & mod designs available in public domain. infact i think 'cept for IC circuitry, all amplifier designs are public domain but do korek me if im wrong.

it would be nice to know the basic tech & specs sooo those tat havnt heard can do a paper comparo. eg are the internal opamp/s interchangeable? or is it full discrete transistors? mw output rating? type of battery & replacement? physical size (pics wit ipod beside would be nice)? etc etc - i sincerely hope customer support will be excellent (for once) & it wont be another boleh deal of Just Listen Do As I Say Not As I Do & fergadsake Dont Ask Questions (geee sounds like some wacko wannabee PM of a banana monachyrepublic & his biggg maamaaa )

u know i oftened wonder about de asian mentality of shhhssssh shhhhssssh - don tell ya - big secret la - i only give to my son - typa thinking. i know its da 5000 year old culture talking but times have changed...fortunetly. esp if we commercialize stuff. speaking of which i bliv da chinese are da worlds worst offenders when it comes to cloning

sooo bottomline, ppl pls put out some specs & data on this. and be prepared to answer tough questions cos its out hard earned dineros we're spending sooo as smart & informed consumers tat we are ( ) we should could & would ask questions.

put it out there & let da market do its thang. if its good, build it & they will come

I sense some storm coming....

Just a simple close up picture is enuff to cure our hungry for knowledge brain..
hehehe

and a couple of hundreds RM.... hahahhahaha!

but its true thou... at least shared some lights over this secret amp.... we as consumer need to know.... if not much.... little would be sufficient....

All amplifier designs are public domain, even goes for IC circuitry design. It's either this or that and the only difference in them?

FAB TECHNIQUE. Those with the best fabbing technology wins in this regard.

Of course I know you're not the one who made the amp la , wala told me ur working on the specs one

hold your horse dude. how do you know there's a mistake? or you are the one who judge which is the mistake?
since if you said it is copied here and there. then why borther of interested of requesting the picture of it? to learn how to implement it?
i learn the fact that if some one disclosed their amp internal parts, expecially commercial amps, or after market amp. they often get ambushed by saying "after market amp is so often overpriced... and i had recall some guys in here even said "RSA tomahawk is just a Cmoy.. i can make it below RM 100, they are seriuosly overprice."
well for this case. i will like to stress that this specific secret amp is NOT copy from any sources over internet, nor the standard shematics for an amp.
and pls get your words nicely if you don't want to start a flame war.. you often post like you are being the mighty and saying other ppls were bad.. downsides,, and so on by the fact you never even have a listen at the amp. since you are now working on the commercial version of the amp, how about now ppl said your amp " the amp you design is copy from internet standard schematic with some minor tweak. it's full of compromise, and it is just another similar amp with different maker and brand name. as same as thousands of DIY brand over the internet.. so why bother to spend time on it? the time you spend on your amp on tweak it can't make your amp fly to the heaven.. or make it a serious big monster that can drive headphone or even speaker? it still stick to the nature of the op amp you used as we must remember the science, that anythings hard work you do won't break the rules of the nature science and you can't break the limits of the op amp itself. there's always much better shematic & parts over internet. just depend you know how to use it or not!" feeling nice?



and i also had learn that there's too much people who is really great in critics. critics is the easiest way to speak of. just say it..as if you are way beyond them.
and can't you read it properlly? i said i am involve in ttesting the amp. hence i respect the afford spend by walabies and yuheng. pls do NOT even mention that it is "my product"
how about when your commercilized amp comes out. pls do includes the complete and detail schematic on them? and some one else comes out and say. hell this amp only cost half of the actual price.. this op amp only cost RM 20... this caps make it lum sum only RM 50.. so total not even RM 100... you want that? if you really did it that way. then go ahead. it's a great community service.

if you don't want to do that. pls do not even disturb or interested in the naked picture. go ahead and do your amp which is better sounding. and produce it commercialized as a fair comparison.

how about go to KFC and tell them. cooking chicken is copy here and there. we involve oil. some powder and spices.. just depend on how we implement it. now KFC must tell us what they use within the fried chicken so that we as a consumer know what we eaten into our tummy. and it actually helps to promotes KFC even better.

if it is so easy. then everyone can be the best cook. those recipies are no secret, infact they are tonnes of them over the www.
this is similar case to the secret amp. the parts itself is no secret. but the way to implement it is indeed a trade secret.


bro. not that i am being the one who bring out the flame. just you have to understand the "detail" i mean here is not the fact that they are asking for type of battery.. physical size and so on.. i feel that the spec itself can't even indicates the sound quality of it produced. hence i am offering ppl who interested to come over and listen. else. wait for the first batch user review for it's performance.

and design the amp really don't even relying on any single shit of paper nor spec sheet of the chips. everythings were design freely with suggestino and advice from a more than 2 high end technicions who repairs high end hifi gear.
here i will like to answer some question. internal bettery were running as indicated in picture. GP rechargeable battery 3.6V 300 mah. can be bought at most of the store. and there's a plug on top of the board. meaning user can indeed change their battery them self. the battery is meantly for wireless indoor phone.the chip, the battery option will have an upgrade version which uses a larger battery which will make the amp last for about 280 hours per single charge on driving normal headphone.. i not sure is that an op amp. is NOT interchangeable. mW output is not sure. but it is capable of driving 600ohm headphone with a relatively nice control despite the size. driving usual Hd650 and HD580 is not a big problem as the secret amp is initially designed for my HD580.

This post has been edited by PcWork: Mar 24 2009, 02:40 PM

^HOLY Shit PCWork, the amount of conceit and arrogance you have for yourself is seriously making me strictly appalled not to mention shocked. I would have never expected this from you. I thought that my initial response was written quite diplomatically and kind.

Way cool to take things out of context without even noticing what is right or what is wrong.


1)When I requested the pictures at the other particular thread, I'm asking in favor of admiration, like any DIY junkies would. Believe me or not, things like circuitry, layout and components turns us junkies on more than anything else. Blasphemy to even think of copying it for commercial benefits. You really have to stop being too presumptuous. EDIT: Plus the fact that in that thread I was particularly PROUD of finally knowing us M'SIANS came up with something ourselves. You had to accuse me of having bad intentions while all these while I only wanted to admire your work? Screw it PCWork. That's utterly disappointing.

2)I said there are many downsides to copying an amplifier. Just look at the last recent headphonia's issue with Jan Meier (headphonia copied his open source amplifier for commercial gain), who'd actually do that just to get into deep trouble instead? Not to mention the effort to sell it as another individual, there are too many issues to boot. In addition, do take note as a designer that it's only prideful and enthralling to come up with one's own effort in tweaking the values and applying well implemented topologies instead of copying them straight out of someone else's product. In short, who'd take the trouble? You're safe despite having a diamond in your shack.

3)Design is what make the difference. Don't tell me there's something innovative in Analog Electronics unless you're another Nelson Pass, Malcom Hawksford, Jung yourself. EDIT: Also, everything is on the internet, including books and stuffs. It's just downright ignorant to say that there's something "special" about analog electronics. Credits are only given to the design and choice of implementation. However, there's no such thing as innovation.

Also, I have never requested for the schematics in a crude manner. You should really start to realize many of us just likes to appreciate and look at beautiful things but never had even the slightest intentions of copying/cloning it.EDIT: In fact you can just politely decline our request for pictures in a tactful manner and we're really all cool with it. Also, coherently according to EFN's earlier reply, we just wanted to know the topologies, NOT the values.

Addendum:

Regarding your critics of my comments on the Tomahawk = CMOY. Tell me, what's wrong with that. What's wrong with the fact that it's a cmoy based amplifier? So suddenly if people know what it's really like it's going to change the perceived quality? Heck, the highly acclaimed Mini3 is a three channel CMOY. So does it make it inferior? Sometimes when we tag names like cmoys to an amplifier does not mean it will perform poorly. Simply put, the design and choice of implementation means everything. No one is discrediting it's ability to perform despite the simple outlook.

This post has been edited by LittleGhost: Mar 24 2009, 03:29 PM

Oooww man... I really feel bad cuz i think i'm the source of this..

PcWork, u misunderstood my question. I ask for the spec of the amp, not the detail of the components used in this amp.

To prevent further derailing, pls make sure it's related to this amp

Sorry for the misunderstanding....

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Added on March 24, 2009, 3:09 pm

U have to consider people NOT from Serdang area. Do i need to get a flight ticket to KL in order to see for myself the spec of the amp? How u expect people to buy something without even knowing anything bout the product?

Dont bother writing out the specs. Walabies already informed me last night.

This post has been edited by toughnut: Mar 24 2009, 03:09 PM

pals. no harm. it's not you. what i am refering is some guys who PMed me about the secret amp.
i can understand your question nicely. =)
and i am not posting it over to point it at you. really.
pls do ask if u need to know anythings. i will gladly to answer it.
by the way. i really don't know much of the amp. and even i not very sure what it is used even i have it on my hand.
anyway. but i can sure that.. yesterday i tested the upgraded battery version, it's much more powerful.
so definitely worth the extra bucks for the battery. i am getting mine upgrade to bigger battery.
hahaha

^do note that the fact that I did not PM you about the amplifier and I don't think it's fair for you to lash out on my well intended admiration.

@PcWork

Toughnut, I sent you a PM regarding some of your question.

PcWork, do you have a Secret amp with you that already have all the casing and front/back plate?? If so give them a bit of idea about the dimension la, how much inch here and there.

aiyo...all of you are in your respected field...tak payah gado gado la...as for those that seriously wanna test em...PcWork EARLIER HAD offered the opportunity...stop PMing unnecessary stuff la...we all had been waiting for this stuff like almost 2 years...let it comes out with a smooth transition...and hope the support is enough to bring out the next DAC version of the Secret Amp...as for Ghost and PcWork...slight misunderstandings then forget it ok...

icyfawkes, you still havent wait for a full two years leh lolx

spare a thought for some like us who tried the very 1st prototype, we really waited that long, torture lolx

I totally agree with LiitleGhost in his arguement above. I mean, snap back to reality. I'm really annoyed. jeez.

When a product comes out with a very suggestive name like "The Secret Amp" and carry a hefty price tag, the marketing approach muct match prospective customer expectations.

To date, the marketing engine for this amp have failed to clear the air for those that may be interested in purchasing one because eveything seems to be clouded in hazy description with so great a secret recipe. It is cool that PcWork offers prospective buyers to have a listen directly to the prototype amp in hand but seriously how many people will have the time and energy to go over and do this.

The marketing engine should be very transparent with details and what's at stake. Put clarity in the following:
- Clarification of topology used
- A bit of technical details
- A glimpse of the actual amp

Revealing some info officially will help to boost sales for sure. Again take example from reknown amp makers, they are quite serious about marketing their amp in all possible way. And since customers nowadays are quite picky, they will shun any sale of items that are wrapped in mystery.

Bottomline, if it is so secretive why bother selling it? might as well don't advertise it at all and just circulate among peoples you trust.

My intention is to help set this thing straight, I believe it is indeed a superb amp and deserve all the attention it can get.

Cheers

ughh this is going no where, guys PLEASE have a bit of patience, I'm sure they are doing their best working on it.

hey brader PcWork pls dont get me wrong ya as i've no intention of flaming u nor saying anything offensive nor disrespectful to u as i know that although youre a participating observer, u have no financial interests in this. i do know u bliv'd & like tis amp soo much tat u became owner of amp #001 & its bcos of your belief tat im even interested at all. to be totally honest whot i wrote has nothing to do with u as ya not the designer nor the commercializer (is there even such a word ).

i just feel in agreement with wot EFN stated & i just dont get this hush hush thermonuclear bomb making ISA secrecy deal (sidesss even nuclear bomb technology arnt 'secret' any longer if pakistan & north korea can make em. hell even bangladesh mite make one too jus for da hell of it.... ). i mean if this is a diy & make it for oneself or for other frens only, then tis 007 James Bond i-could-tell-ya-but-then-i'd-have-to-killya stuff would be totally kosher (or halal if 1prays to Allah & not Tuhan or isit de other way 'round ) but since da powers-tat-be are commercializing this, wots there to be 'fraid off? once ppl buy it, then its their property to dismantle look touch feel & yes....even copy & clone if they want to. unless its patented & someone is willing to pay the leeches (u mite call em lawyers ) to legal enforcement, theres really nothing anyone can do! gads look at china - they clone even in da face of international law

i say show it off to ppl & be proud to answer all pertinent questions. trade info like cap, resistor, component values need not be disclosed but a paying consumer has a rite to know wots he/shes buying. i truly bliv we asians can learn from the west in this regards on top of providing product support & customer service. ibasso as an eg isnt da best built not do they have ground breaking technology -in this i do blivs others are korek wen its stated tat every design in audio is public domain- heck me thinks they dont even spreakie no angrisssh but they try, they answer best they can & they stand behind their products so much so tat even redneck norte americanos speak highly of em. let me tell ya tat that is hard earned & NOT given as boleh politicians soo often demand.

sooo have a sitdown heart2heart tête-à-tête or jusa simple powwow wit the powers-tat-be but make em understand tat we paying consumers not only wants but have a right to know. get all da relevant facts & pics out sooo tat ppl know tat not only Malaysia - Truly Asia but Malaysia Boleh

in this age of instant info - there are no secrets. ask Edison Chen, Eli Wong or even ....bolehlands next PM (maybe)

as usual - juz ma humble 2cents

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Added on March 24, 2009, 5:40 pmedited on: O & i gats no issues wit ppl saying cmoy or emoy or better yet...ahmoi (cos scottie lovs de ahmois ya) so long as it sounds good. tats da bottomline for me & not wot other think or say.

btw i'd lov to have amp tats "A Wire With Gain" - as simple as tat

This post has been edited by scottiebabie: Mar 24 2009, 05:40 PM

I would like to point out the fact that the manufacturers has not even finished the amp yet and they are still putting the finishes to the amp. The finished end unit is not even out yet, so far they have only been promoting the pre-ordering of the finished units and those who have signed up are mainly people who have followed the development of the amp and have tried them out and find it to their liking.

They are in no way actually selling their amp or marketing their amp at full scale yet and I believe when they have the finished units they will of course have all the details i.e. components, battery life, dimensions, input/output options and etc to provide to interested parties plus other nitty gritty details regarding the amp.

This thread I believe was set up to hype it up and as a future reference point for soon-to-be owners to post their reviews and findings. So I hope that everyone can just hold their horses and not rush into a flaming war or blaming the sellers for the witholding of information.

Just my 2 cents...