Hackwire,

From what I have gathered so far, most Malaysians need to be educated as to why they need to purchase insurance as most of time they tend to buy something that is not in their best interest. While sales persons can be blamed for most part of this, the customers should also make time to learn as what they're buying into instead of leaving everything to the agent and then subsequently blaming the agent for any mishaps. To me buy what you need and not what you're sold.

Insurance itself is nothing but a financial instrument that serves extremely well if used wisely. If you don't have the skill to use it properly then you can acquire it.

Risk management is a crucial part of all business nowadays and managing risks prudently is what the insurers have to do so as to safeguard their funds. The insurance contract often regarded as a bona fide contract and hence all material disclosure needs to be presented to the insurer to enable informed acceptance of the proposal. In the event of family history of cancer or heart attack, insurers may seek medical examination to assess the risk better. Should there be medical evidence that he/she is prone to have cancer or heart attack then appropriate loading or exclusions would be issued. In some cases this can appealed and reversed as well.

The older generation of sales personnel would probably not go into blogs etc but I must say I see a good number of younger ones into it nowadays, for example this very forum.

I think a level of understanding had been achieved. This conversation reminds me of the movie call District 9 when human making assumption of the ALIEN purposes and needs. What a moron if human never put their shoe in the Alien shoe to find out more about them instead of feeding them with Can of Cat foods when they can also be fed on other meat like OX meat. A level of Communication brokedown thus making more stress to those who had paid for the policy and will die even faster than thought later.

Thank you HH. time to invade the Mothership for information. You can't get enough info just by reading and meeting agents out there or even email. we need to be invited to learn more about insurance policy in their conducted classes and even than we know what we get and what we don't. I think most agent will appreciate this kind of conversation . So i guess , the curtain is down and its time to get your weapon ready and educate more potential clients .

This post has been edited by hackwire: May 24 2010, 11:26 AM

That's an indeed interesting analogy Hackwire . Yes it's sad to see the stress on those who have paid and lost it.

My take on garnering knowledge is to have a strong base of general financial lingo before proceeding to industry specific ones such insurance, investment etc. There are plenty of information out in form of journals, magazines etc to used for this. One must also make use of product brochures available.

Hackwire,

All your listed 1 to 5 is considered under surgical fees/procedure. But not buying organ. Buying organ shall be classified under critical illnesses.

And yes HH is right coz not all sicknesses can be listed out.

So now the question is, if all the above are covered under H&S plan, do you have sufficient H&S limit to cover this?

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Added on May 24, 2010, 4:21 pmIf you are honest to disclose, there should not be any issues with this. What they want to see is let's say cancer and heart stroke for family members is their age when diagnosed. If diagnosed with these illnesses at old age, they will accept without exclusion. This is what i've experienced so far.

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Added on May 24, 2010, 5:03 pmWhat I've mentioned above is true. My company claim manager has confirmed the sickness such as lung fibrosis and cystic bronchiectasis are very common deseases and covered under the H&S scheme. Items 1 to 5 are covered, but the cost to buy the organs are NOT covered. A critical illness plan is needed to cater for this cost!

So do take note of the standard exclusion clause when buying an insurance policy because when a non-disclosure is detected, definitely a claim is not entitled.

Hope this will help you Hackwire.

Thanks

This post has been edited by chew_ronnie: May 24 2010, 05:03 PM

Great ! Thanks to you Ronnie chew. Can you ask for me if my claim for Sleep Apnea claimable. Does the machine claimable? the machine cost around RM 4K -8K.

It was challenging as im running out of cash flow to get the sleep apnea machine. my case is consider quite bad as it fell into two category 1) Obstructive Sleep Apnea and 2) Central Sleep Apnea. Both of this were symptom and sign of the Heart Stroke indicator. Doc said it's dangerous but i wonder y my medical card got rejected. Im making second time claim with the doc prescription, still awaiting their answer.

i did went into some of the forum and it seems like US citizen are lucky because its claimable including the machine. Some of the high risk employee like those managing bullet train also get the machine sponsored by the govt .

Studies had shown that many accidents in road and public vehicles accident were caused by this disease. Not only obese people have it as until today the scientist still do not know the cause of the tongue meat drops and shut the air valve in the throat when deep sleep. Snoring loud and Sleep Apnea is not related.

Sleep Disorder were use in the insurance term and people who had it earlier will be excluded from buying insurance. Again, there's a different between Sleep Disorder as compare to Sleep Apnea. Insurance company as usual always ahead to psyche with this exotic disease knowing that an illness like this is claimable in overseas.

I had came across people from other country who think im so lucky and smart to know this at my age as many people don't even care to take the test until its too late. some elders praised me when i told them this problem of mine. The doc even asked me what change you? it's like im the youngest to visit them and they were shock that my problem is acute and was second behind one of the record holder who don't breathe more than 100 times per hour.



This post has been edited by hackwire: May 24 2010, 11:21 PM

Buying for that machine is not claimable. It is not cover under H&S policy. I haven't seen any H&S policy that can claim for buying a machine in Malaysia.

This post has been edited by Brother Nick: May 24 2010, 11:38 PM

Well, who don't know that! if insurance company here gonna work like the other country policies i assume the price of premium will be added on or optional.

One day, if someone came out better investment plan or saving for hospitalization investment than only insurance company starts to throw all their weaponry in.
But its not gonna happen because the way Capitalism is run we know the Cash route still links back to the govt banking industry so its impossible to threaten the industry . But if u and i lobby this and make a better health care benefit , wouldn't you think it part of social work and help to the people rather than just goin after people saving.

This post has been edited by hackwire: May 25 2010, 12:38 AM

This is my opinion , you should buy your mc right now , since you are now 30++ , those bad illnesses start to attack peoples in their 30s. Illnesses like diabetes,heart problem , high calories are something you need be aware of. If you want to buy MC when you already got problem with your health then its going to be a problem. The premium is going to be high and you may have a chance to get rejected.

You have to understand the cost of medical card will be increased along with your age. If you buy it when you already at golden age .The cost of MC is going to be very high and if you are taking ILP , im afraid the cash value wont be sufficient to cover the increase of your premium because you only have 10-15 years to pay the premium . You dont want to pay high premium when you are retired , sucking up all your saving. The horror part is you dont want your policy to be lapsed at the time when you really need your insurance coverage the most.(when you are old) just because you couldnt afford the premium.

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Added on May 29, 2010, 8:28 pmYou have to make sure the policy stated that it is guarantee renewable.Most of insurance companies wont terminate your policy after you made claim as long the claim is not exceeding the lifetime limit.the most important thing you have to read the policy and not just listen to your agent.because in the end of the day only what written on the signed papers are matter not sweet words came out from you agent's mouth.

This post has been edited by redruby: May 29 2010, 08:28 PM

Hi, everyone,

I would like to announce that ING has launched a new medical card rider for its investment-linked policy.
Here's some of the details of this rider :
Room & Board : RM120 / RM180 / RM260
Annual Limit : RM60K / RM120K / RM180K
Lifetime Limit : 10 times of the annual limit.
No Claim Bonus : RM120 / RM180 / RM260

No claim bonus will be paid to policyholder in the form of units, provided no claim in the previous year.
Co-insurance of 10% per disability/per visit will be imposed. The minimum co-insurance payable shall be RM300 but the maximum co-insurance payable shall not exceed RM1000 per disability.

Don't want to bear the co-insurance? ING existing medical card rider which has no co-insurance is still available.
For more information, send your inquiries to my e-mail. Thanks!


Regards,
Gavin Lim from ING
cheahyang_0@hotmail.com

I still do not understand why Insurance policy don't think this Sleep Apnea problem or Sleep Disorder is not claimable.

Read here: it has everything related to heart diseases . Is it too early for us to detect the cause and try to prevent major claim..So insurance only covers the bad one and hopeful that they get heart attack?

Come on lah... insurance guys are the honest people out there but for once get real and ask yourself if you love to see sick patient???



http://www.home-remedies-for-you.com/remedy/Sleep-Apnea.html

The term “apnea” means without breath and sleep apnea is a disorder characterized by stopping or pausing breath during sleep. This is not a mild sleep disorder as longer pauses between breaths can lead to fatal consequences. Each pause in breathing spans between ten to twenty seconds or more but these pauses occur more than twenty to thirty times every hour.

Sleep apnea occurs because adequate air is unable to flow in to the lungs through the mouth or nose as one tries to breathe regularly causing a pause in the breathing activity. Normal breathing resumes with a sudden snort or choking sound but the oxygen levels in blood drop every time there is a pause in breathing.

Sleep apnea is broadly classified into two types: Central and Obstructive. Central sleep apnea is caused due to lack of effort in breathing regularly while Obstructive Sleep Apnea is caused due to a physical block in regular breathing despite effort.

If left untreated sleep apnea can cause: hypertension, stroke, irregular heart beat, heart failure or heart attack.

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Added on June 11, 2010, 5:45 amLook at the quietness of all the agents. I will be astonish to see any great Insurance agents to give a good look of REALITY. I believe i just shit on your compound. " hopefully , they still mean what they mean... " I can help u"


Don't you guys should be celebrating the day when more diseases like severe sleep apnea, severe sinus, severe osteoporosis, severe slip disc can now be given early diagnose and claimable thus you can have more sales from it ? So why are you fellow so scare to even discuss with me?
haha... u guys makes this country insurance health care a bit like a phony fiesta to me..
sorry fellows. i see true colour and sorry to create a detour to your future bungalows, pretty model and mercedes benz dream.
Im outta here. u guys move on.


This post has been edited by hackwire: Jun 11 2010, 06:01 AM


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if being quiet means allowing you to shit on our compounds and be right with your points then i dont believe in keeping quiet.

but i would like to speak for most of us sincere agents out there. i am not afraid to debate with you or anything, just that i know someone who is sore about the system because of his own ignorance in the first place. if u had no idea of your existing sleep apnea condition today, i am very sure u would not be creating such a big hoo haa right now.

lexiqa, thanks for appreciating my point of view.

hackwire, bro, no disrespect intended, really symphatize your situation and hope it gets better, but i care about my work and it comes second only to my family and friends. it is no fun seeing something u care about being challenged or ridiculed, especially when it involves other people's lives, money, and future.

if you are really sincere about making a difference to others in regards to their medical welfare in this country, there are much better ways in going about it rather then just laying it on insurance companies and agents who work with them.

last of all, really hope that things will get better for you. ^^



This post has been edited by kidZac: Jun 14 2010, 02:58 AM

The problem with ING is their overall limit which is too low considering the rising cost of inflation and medical treatment.

Hi friend,

Thanks for telling me your worry.
The overall limit of the latest ING medical card is 10 times of your annual limit.
It means that if you're taking up our plan 3, the overall lifetime limit is RM 1.8 million.
If this is too low, then how much is consider enough?
I understand there's some medical card in the market is giving no lifetime limit, but those medical cards will cap on your claim limit for kidney dialysis and cancer treatment. Besides from those two illnesses, how many illnesses out there will possibly cost you over RM1.8 million?


By the way, please allow me to introduce another great rider which is about to launch by ING next week.
A critical illnesses protection which covers critical illnesses for 3 times and cancers for 2 times!
Nowadays, more and more people can survive from a critical illness when they're being treated early.
ING understands the protection needs for those who has recovered from critical illnesses so that's the reason why this rider is being introduced.
After the first critical illness claim has been made, this rider will not be terminated. Instead, the life insured is still being covered from the other critical illnesses as well! ING also understand that those who has recovered from critical illnesses may not have the ability to continue pay the premium. Therefore, once the life insured is being diagnosed with critical illness or become totally & permanently disability (TPD), all the future premium shall be waived! Wouldn't it be a nice plan to protect you?

So if you think that this is a good news, please kindly share this information with the people around you! Thanks!



Regards,
Gavin Lim from ING
cheahyang_0@hotmail.com

Hi,

I'm looking for Life, CI, PA and medical card insurance to top up my current insurance plan. I researched for some time now and got some products in my mind. But I would like to further understand about these products (or maybe you have better suggestion/comparison to it that I'm not aware of) before making the move. I would like to point out that I'm not expecting investment growth from the insurance products, I'm solely looking for protection.

Gender: Male
Age: 31
Smoke: NO
Health: Good, no claims before.
Owned insurance plan:
- Life, CI & PA -> from GE, cover up to RM100K.
- Medical card -> cover by my company, group policy from ING, family plan, RM42K per disability.

I'm pretty interested in the products shown below, please help to provide info, guidance or suggestion if you have better idea.
- Life, CI & PA -> Public Mutual, Mutual Life Plus 2, RM200K, premium is RM1100 per year.
- Medical card -> Allianz, EB MediShield Plus, RM50K per year, RM500K wholelife, standalone MC, premium is ~RM350 per year.

Questions I have:
1. We're required to fill in medical history of family members. My mum demised few years ago due to cancer (leukemia). Will I be rejected or imposed any loading due to this when applying for the products mentioned?

2. Mutual Life Plus 2 from Public Mutual seems a very good deal to me, generally higher protection and lower premium compared to ILP or regular products. Any risk/disadvantage that I'm not aware of?

3. Allianz EB MediShield Plus mentioned about guaranteed renewal up to age 80. I read from the forum that there are usually 2 years observing period before the policy is guranteed renewal, is this correct? Meaning if we only make claims after 2 years, then the Insurer (Allianz) will have the obligation to continue renew the policy until age 80, provided the premium is continuosly paid on time.

4. Any risk if we go for standalone medical card instead of medical card attached to ILP or regular life insurance policy?

Hi, I'm with Allianz and I can answer you on your question.

I'm pretty interested in the products shown below, please help to provide info, guidance or suggestion if you have better idea.
- Life, CI & PA -> Public Mutual, Mutual Life Plus 2, RM200K, premium is RM1100 per year. - Medical card -> Allianz, EB MediShield Plus, RM50K per year, RM500K wholelife, standalone MC, premium is ~RM350 per year.

Questions I have:
1. We're required to fill in medical history of family members. My mum demised few years ago due to cancer (leukemia). Will I be rejected or imposed any loading due to this when applying for the products mentioned? For Allianz no. Others I can't answer

2. Mutual Life Plus 2 from Public Mutual seems a very good deal to me, generally higher protection and lower premium compared to ILP or regular products. Any risk/disadvantage that I'm not aware of? Critical Illness ceased at age 65. Very very cheap and should buy.


3. Allianz EB MediShield Plus mentioned about guaranteed renewal up to age 80. I read from the forum that there are usually 2 years observing period before the policy is guranteed renewal, is this correct? Meaning if we only make claims after 2 years, then the Insurer (Allianz) will have the obligation to continue renew the policy until age 80, provided the premium is continuosly paid on time. No this is not true, it guaranteed renewable from day 1. However this is not a good plan to get due to outpatient cancer and kidney treatment is very limited i.e. 10k/annum. I would suggest you look at ING/GE's Great Medicare 2 if you want a standalone card. Just my opinion.

4. Any risk if we go for standalone medical card instead of medical card attached to ILP or regular life insurance policy? Normally stand alone cards are not so good in benefits as compared to cards attacehd to ILP or traditional cards.

Hi Ronnie,

Thanks for the information, I like your professionalism, most of the agents I have talked to always recommend their own company plan without taking consideration of my requirements

For question #4, would you mind to list down some differences between standalone MC and those attached to ILP or regular policy? I'm not entirely reject ILP or regular policy, it just that i will need to know more about the differences before i commit to it. As i mentioned in earlier post, I already have some policy, and would like to seek best top up benefits.

Thanks for your time.

Sounds good. But i also know that behind these benefits are always loopholes e.g terms n conditions. I havent had the chance to look into your latest package. As such i can only comment on the previous one. I was looking (and analysing) Prudential, AIA and ING since early this year but i found ING to be lacking in more areas compared to AIA and Prudential. There were many 'hidden' terms n conditions. On the surface, most insurance policies look very good but u always need to look into the details n fine print to know what ure really getting.

Even the critical illness for instance, most ppl only know about 32 or 36 ilnesses that are covered. But what ppl dont know is that even with these critical illnesses, there are terms n conditions. Not everything under these critical illnesses are covered. There are many terms n conditions to be met before a payout for a critical illness can be granted.

These are normally NOT told by the agent upfront. You have to be smart enough to analyse and ask the right questions.

Every insurance products have it's terms & conditions. To me, all insurance products are good but none of them is the perfect.


Would you mind sharing your analysis? What are the areas that you think ING is lacking if compared to other insurance company?
I don't think there will be any hidden terms & conditions in any insurance product. All the terms and conditions are stated black and white in the policy book. Maybe it's your agent fault that don't explain it to you.