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 medical / critical illness insurance enquiry

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cybermaster98
post Jun 14 2010, 03:45 PM

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QUOTE(gavin_lim @ Jun 9 2010, 08:57 PM)
Hi, everyone,

I would like to announce that ING has launched a new medical card rider for its investment-linked policy.
Here's some of the details of this rider :
Room & Board : RM120 / RM180 / RM260
Annual Limit : RM60K / RM120K / RM180K
Lifetime Limit : 10 times of the annual limit.
No Claim Bonus : RM120 / RM180 / RM260


No claim bonus will be paid to policyholder in the form of units, provided no claim in the previous year.
Co-insurance of 10% per disability/per visit will be imposed. The minimum co-insurance payable shall be RM300 but the maximum co-insurance payable shall not exceed RM1000 per disability.

Don't want to bear the co-insurance? ING existing medical card rider which has no co-insurance is still available.
For more information, send your inquiries to my e-mail. Thanks!
Regards,
Gavin Lim from ING
cheahyang_0@hotmail.com
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The problem with ING is their overall limit which is too low considering the rising cost of inflation and medical treatment.
cybermaster98
post Jun 16 2010, 09:40 AM

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QUOTE(gavin_lim @ Jun 15 2010, 12:06 AM)
Hi friend,

Thanks for telling me your worry.
The overall limit of the latest ING medical card is 10 times of your annual limit.
It means that if you're taking up our plan 3, the overall lifetime limit is RM 1.8 million.
If this is too low, then how much is consider enough?
I understand there's some medical card in the market is giving no lifetime limit, but those medical cards will cap on your claim limit for kidney dialysis and cancer treatment. Besides from those two illnesses, how many illnesses out there will possibly cost you over RM1.8 million?
By the way, please allow me to introduce another great rider which is about to launch by ING next week.
A critical illnesses protection which covers critical illnesses for 3 times and cancers for 2 times!
Nowadays, more and more people can survive from a critical illness when they're being treated early.
ING understands the protection needs for those who has recovered from critical illnesses so that's the reason why this rider is being introduced.
After the first critical illness claim has been made, this rider will not be terminated. Instead, the life insured is still being covered from the other critical illnesses as well! ING also understand that those who has recovered from critical illnesses may not have the ability to continue pay the premium. Therefore, once the life insured is being diagnosed with critical illness or become totally & permanently disability (TPD), all the future premium shall be waived! Wouldn't it be a nice plan to protect you?

So if you think that this is a good news, please kindly share this information with the people around you! Thanks!
Regards,
Gavin Lim from ING
cheahyang_0@hotmail.com
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Sounds good. But i also know that behind these benefits are always loopholes e.g terms n conditions. I havent had the chance to look into your latest package. As such i can only comment on the previous one. I was looking (and analysing) Prudential, AIA and ING since early this year but i found ING to be lacking in more areas compared to AIA and Prudential. There were many 'hidden' terms n conditions. On the surface, most insurance policies look very good but u always need to look into the details n fine print to know what ure really getting.

Even the critical illness for instance, most ppl only know about 32 or 36 ilnesses that are covered. But what ppl dont know is that even with these critical illnesses, there are terms n conditions. Not everything under these critical illnesses are covered. There are many terms n conditions to be met before a payout for a critical illness can be granted.

These are normally NOT told by the agent upfront. You have to be smart enough to analyse and ask the right questions.
cybermaster98
post Jun 16 2010, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(gavin_lim @ Jun 16 2010, 10:06 AM)
Every insurance products have it's terms & conditions. To me, all insurance products are good but none of them is the perfect.
Would you mind sharing your analysis? What are the areas that you think ING is lacking if compared to other insurance company?
I don't think there will be any hidden terms & conditions in any insurance product. All the terms and conditions are stated black and white in the policy book. Maybe it's your agent fault that don't explain it to you.
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Yes i agree with you. As i have said in an earlier post, there is no such thing as a perfect insurance policy. Every policy has its loopholes and hidden terms. What suits 1 person may not suit the needs of another.

When i say 'hidden' i mean that these are not revealed by the agent during the initial discussions. Just like what ure doing now. Ure saying ING is good because of all these positive factors but none is mentioned about the 'terms n conditions'. Of course im aware that everything is mentioned in the final policy but normally by that stage it is already too late to turn back e.g the client is already convinced that he/she should go ahead with this particular insurance after spending time in various rounds of discussions and in some cases a medical checkup.

If insurance companies want to be totally open, these so called 'exclusions' can be provided in a brief listing which can be shown to prospective customers during the inital discussions. But this does not happen simply because you do not want to scare potential clients off. Simply marketing strategy. Same goes for any other products not just insurance.

In my 6 month effort to find the 'best' insurance policy i made it a point to speak to at least 2-3 agents for EACH insurance provider simply because different agents provide you with different info and different perspectives. Plus its always good to double check every piece of information you get.

(p/s: On a lighter note, i test drove my car 7 times in 4 states over a 6 week period, carefully selecting the showrooms, just to test the car under different driving conditions before i finally bought it. . Did roughly the same thing with my 1st property purchase too. That should give you an idea of how meticulous i am when it comes to investing in something)

Cheers!
cybermaster98
post Jun 17 2010, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(gavin_lim @ Jun 16 2010, 08:51 PM)
It's not that I don't want to reveal the terms and conditions, but simply because I don't think it's a good idea to list it down here.
First, I don't think people will prefer to read a long story about the terms and conditions, which is somewhat hard to be understood.
Even if you ask an agent from insurance company A to explain the terms and conditions of insurance company B's product, he may misinterpret it as well, not to say a normal consumer who has no insurance knowledge. Reading and understanding is different thing, man.
I, as a professional insurance agent, will explain the terms and conditions only in a face to face discussion.
If the consumer discovers that there's some terms and conditions that he can't agree, he can cancel the policy without assigning any reason, within 15 days from the date he receives the policy book.

I suppose that this is the same goes for you as well. For example, when you go for a job interview, I bet what you have included inside your resume is your qualifications, working experiences and blah blah blah, all the good things about you.
Would you write down a full page of your weaknesses and not to mention any good thing about you, and hoping the company will consider to hire you just because of your frankness?
Be reality man! All these are what we called "Human Nature". You criticize on other people without realize that you're actually doing the same thing as well.
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Gavin,

I think you are not understanding the issue at hand. Why are u being defensive? Common man. Grow up. U aint a kid. All i said was read the terms n conditions before implying that all fine with a particular insurance. Its more of an advise to other consumers here based on my own experience. If i was an insurance agent, my response would be yes there are terms n conditions but you are most welcome to discuss these terms with me before we go further in our discussions. Rather than go to the extent of trying to make me look bad (which only worked the other way).

You dont have to give a long story as what u claim. It can be a simple 2 page dot point summary of the exclusions for critical illnesses. No big deal right?

And, did i mention anywhere about asking 1 agent to comment on another company's bad points? So dont assume.

I am refering to face to face discussions. Even with these discussions, no agent will ever list down the exclusions unless you specifically ask for them.

Of course im aware of the 15 day free look. Didnt u read wht i said? I said at that stage very few consumers will turn down the proposal because they have already gone thru the hassle of the discussions, medical check up, etc. They would prefer to just go ahead and get it.

Exclusions are not bad points. So please dont compare with an interview. Most insurance companies have the same exclusions with some plus n minusses. So dont turn it around and make silly comparisons.

U obviously do not have the maturity to deal with difficult consumer queries unlike some other agents here in this forum e.g Chew Ronnie. You just whine and cry when someone points out the no so good side of ING. If u dont appreciate negative comments then dont advertise your proposals here. Agents like you are the ones who give insurance companies a bad name. Accept constructive critisisms. Im not talking rubbish. Grow up while u still have the time.

Cheers!
cybermaster98
post Jun 17 2010, 04:22 PM

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QUOTE(Gen-X @ Jun 16 2010, 09:30 PM)

As for testing the same car 7 times, you still ended up with the same car model  tongue.gif The only time I go to different showroom/dealer is to check on delivery time and discount they can offer.
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The idea of going to different showrooms is to test the car under different road conditions e.g rough road, uphill, downhill, with full load, rainy conditions, etc. The advantage is i have not regretted my purchase in any way since i knew exactly what i was getting. After 7 years my car is in perfect condition with zero problems.

Of course i know of many others who didnt go thru 7 test drives and yet got good cars as well but this is my style and it has worked perfectly well with me. Thru this type of scrutiny, I have a relatively good car, i got among the best home loan packages last year, my 1st property value has appreciated 43% in 1 year, i have a great job and i have quality investments in other sectors.

U cant analyse everything and ull never get anything perfect in life but i am a believer in minimising risks. Same with insurances.

Cheers!
cybermaster98
post Jun 17 2010, 11:48 PM

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QUOTE(gavin_lim @ Jun 17 2010, 07:21 PM)
I know it's no big deal. But the problem is, without agent's explaination, how many consumers can fully understand?
What's the point for a consumer to read a list of critical illnesses without even know what they are?
One example, if I'm asking what is a Karsinoma-in-Situ, how many consumers can know what it is?
I just don't want to cause any misunderstanding so I think that the T&C is better to be told in a face to face discussion.
What I'm saying is asking them to explain, not to comment on the bad points. Professional agents don't simply comment on the bad point of other company.
You see, even you can misinterpret what I wanted to say. How about the others? Without a face to face explaination, simple things can turn into difficulties.
You never met an agent to list down the exclusions is that you're looking for the wrong agent. No all agent is like that so please take back your word "no agent will ever list down the exclusions". This is unfair to us.
So far I don't see you showing any valid point to proof why ING is not as good as the other.
If it's proven to be true I will accept it.
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U still dont get wht im trying to say eh? Why dont u go and read all my posts instead of shooting blanks? Read and understand yourself. I aint some dumbo to not know how to word my sentences.
cybermaster98
post Jun 23 2010, 08:54 AM

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QUOTE(gavin_lim @ Jun 22 2010, 08:40 AM)
ING's standalone medical card has no co-insurance but it's subject to a self deductible of RM50 for each hospitalization/day surgery.
[attachmentid=1639486]
Besides from standalone medical card, ING have 2 kinds of medical card rider for its investment-linked product.
One have no co-insurance but lower life time limit (3 times of annual limit)
The other one have a high life time limit (10 times annual limit) but subject to a co-insurance of 10% (not exceeding RM1000 per disability).
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Can u post the brochure for the 10X lifetime limit package?
cybermaster98
post Aug 9 2010, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(cuebiz @ Aug 7 2010, 11:38 PM)
You should also realised that there are co-insurance involved. Usually 10%. That means you will have to pay 10% of the total bill. Only ING does not have this feature but you pay slightly higher premium.
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The co-insurance can be easily covered by the daily cash allowance. So no issue there.
cybermaster98
post Aug 10 2010, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Aug 10 2010, 01:02 PM)
abbey,

i would *not* sign a contract carrying this clause. and this is by no means standard for standalone cards. there are tons of cards around that will *not* adjust premiums based on your personal claims experience. in actual fact this very clause teaches you that the insurer is not really an insurer at all. it's a disgrace for the very name (not that there is only one company doing this but it's a disgrace nevertheless).

if you need a list of reputable companies that *do not* increase premiums based on your personal claims experience but only on the overall base of the insured (which is how it should be done!) you may ask me or scroll back. i have posted a list before.

i strongly suggest to boycott companies that dare to tell you we insure you but if you make a claim, we'll increase your premium. only policies that adjust premiums based on portfolio claims should be allowed to call themself insurance.
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yes i agree. Ive analysed Prudential, ING and AIA and none of them carry a clause saying your premiums can be adjusted based on your claims. This is utter bullshit.
cybermaster98
post Aug 10 2010, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(mfitri77 @ Aug 10 2010, 04:42 PM)
Can anybody here point out which general medical card that doesn't have this pesky, problematic clauses. From which provider?

A cursory glance shows that :-

Tokio Marine - 12 months you don't claim, then guaranteed renewal.

Allianz General - 2 years, if claim the subject to exclusions.
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No such exclusions in Prudential. Im not an agent by the way.

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