Dear Brother Lucas1... words of experience. Looks like we'd better hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

Just some info about Layar Klasik Resort (347074-W) registered address, 101-A, Jalan Sutera Taman Sentosa, JB. Business add, Lot 549, Kg. Panti Kota Tinggi. Directors; Ding Ing Leong (51 years old), Jasmine Teon Pon Hong (28 years old). Same address, maybe anak beranak. Shareholders have the same surname Jualiana Teon, Jeremy Teon, Joanne Teon & Jasmine Teon except for Din Ing Leong. Company charges... yadaydaydayda... haha! Its a wonder how easy we can come by information nowadays.

All i want to know is who the hell from the state government "approved" the project. Anyways... the sentence;

With the approval from the State Government, this indicates that swiftlet farming is legalized in Sedili Kecil Swiftlet Eco Park & Bird Nest Cultivation Centre.[

is it enough? An indication is sufficient?

Secondly about agrobank... have some experience with them regarding loans for BH. Had the opportunity but decided to reserve it for my second one. They are a commercial bank. They will need collateral one way or the other. Simple as that. What can speed up the loan is using an FD... which in that case they will give 1:1. If not, 60% from land or property value or 90% of the total project cost, whichevers lower.

Lastly... and this i have been firm since the beginning... is the limitation of food supply, hunting areas or in other words saturation of population.

This post has been edited by dunsuntutmybuntut: Sep 8 2009, 08:25 PM

dear limhongwoon, i think aeiou228 meant for you to use the services of a consultant/specialist with a good track record, credibility verified by other BH owners, comes recommended and the such (whatever the criteria of a good consultant maybe)... and not a CON-sultant.

anyway, the information limhongwoon gave is way too little for any of the forumers to respond to and help give pointers.

my points maybe inadequate.

if it were me, i'd maintain 28 degrees below. why two entrances? and why after 5 years only you ask about aroma? i think bro aeiou228 is right, try reading from V1, maybe you'll get an idea of whats wrong with your BH.

hehehe... CWG's alive and kicking!!! Agreed, this forum has helped me a lot personally up to the extent of building one stand alone myself (well, at least the basics/general idea... from there, improvise). No SOP, no ABSOLUTE method and by now i believe every forumer agrees on this. What is valuable in the threads are the shared information, networking, verification/authentication of so and so and in the end its up to the individual to filter the ones that can be applied.


aiya, still got talk about breeding swiftlets ka? well, if it were that advanced, why not just domesticate them just like how gallus gallus was turned into the white chicken that eats and eats slaughtered and eaten. to me thats still crazy talk at this stage. theres no way an animal with such natural behavior be bred and expected to domestically enter a BH.

Landed in XXX yesterday... noticed there was a stand alone BH just... erm.. maybe 150-200 meters away from the runway. Hmm... next Majlis to after the Sepang majlis... is XXXX??? To me, i'd say bodohnya BH owner... why build in such a provocative area (yes, i did say it isn't possible for swiftlets to be caught in the airplane engines... but why la give an opportunity for them to take action?)

Aiya Bro West Wing, one wife also so hard... 4 wifes??? if like that i'd stay and live inside BH la. hahahaha! what medical condition are you in by the way?

my own BH sambung after raya. they are making a stockpile of light weight bricks. got around 1k, need around 4.5k blocks.

I can't understand the news clip...

Thanks aieou228 for the translation.

I believe in what ChanK said. There will be no end to the EBN industry until the policy, implementation and enforcement are 100% foolproof for us. It is the same with almost everything here in Malaysia... the policy is seen as ideal, perfect and doable even endorsed by high ranking officials... but when it comes to implementation and enforcement, the agencies responsible become the culprits for all sorts of mismanagement and abuse. I can't see any better way unless we unite for a common cause... revitalize and enforce the 'dream team' pro-temp committee... liaise with all BN associations on how to handle these issues... plan the necessary strategies for marketing and public education as well. I know different associations may have different agenda's, but i'm sure common ground can be found. Maybe propose a task force endorsed by the NRE and request participation from relevant agencies plus possibly a special aide from the PMD who reports to the PM directly (haish... wish it was so easy). All i can say is if we let THEM take the initiative, most probably it'll go their way. From the looks of it, the industry is filled with capable people whom are influential as well. A petition is still a good idea at this stage.

Again i stress we should try providing the data for the relevant authorities... since research based facts are hard to deny. Maybe some registered association can work together with local universities and provide the necessary data to prove all the misconceptions wrong. Maybe shove it up SAM's Presidents arse (kinda pissed at the guy since he seriously has biased and wrong info about the industry).

Refreshing some info... i firmly believe that if we can remove AF from the UNDANG-UNDANG MALAYSIA, AKTA 76, AKTA PERLINDUNGAN HIDUPAN LIAR 1972 list... it would solve half the problem. That Act is non-specific in terms of definition and clearly open to abuse by the related agency.

Brother West Wing, 21 days warded means it must be post op... or some complications or some monitoring is seriously done. Wish you a speedy recovery.

To my dear forumers, brother WW, Eng Lee, CWG, aeiou228, ChanK, coolandy, Bobby C, Unlce Ben and all the others... i wish you all merry festivities. Holidays!!!

To the Muslim brothers, Eid Said Wa Antum Bikhair. Don't forget about zakat and don't eat too much, later the baju raya tak muat!! >.<

Nice. Also building my 1st one Tweeter, and try as hard as we might, theres bound to be something missing or just not right. Thats where the old buggers here help a lot.

My own... each 'petak' instead of 4mx4m... mines 15ftx16ft... basically an 80ft x30ft standalone. LAL is one petak, roving area also the same. I figured that since the size was fairly big, a larger and more comfortable LAL and roving area should be more appealing to the birds. However the LAL's location is a bit different... had a quarrel with my consultant, but finally gave in... its located on contra ends of each floor, meaning to say the birds fly more to reach the next LAL. Up to date, framework done, roof done, blocks being made and will be continued after raya, planks to be ordered after raya (waiting for samples).

I'm thinking of the control room... one 'petak' would be kinda large. Unless i intend to make it a living quarter as well (which is not advisable).... mulling what aeiou228 said... doesn't need to be that big, and most definitely a waste of nesting area.

hmm... about the slabs... i hear the minimum is 4 inches. Reinforced with BRC + Y12 (or was it Y??). I think one of the forumers mentioned a long time ago... but just to remind, the slabs must be given attention. Also mulling about water proofing the rooftop slab with that tar like material, just in case the asbes roof leaks (it'll be a pain to repair leaks). Since i'm not from a construction background, there might be mistakes here and there.

Sounds interesting bro aeiou228, since the design you mentioned can be fully utilized for proper research & observation. The storage sounds perfect for storing gadgets and other research equipment since some equipment do make some sort of humming/vibrating noise or whatever. But it is also costly and would be more practical for most to increase nesting area. For now i'll stick to a larger room on the ground floor and carefully plan the layout to ensure maximum usage of space and wiring/hose inlet/outlet. I agree with coolandy as well, why not make it a comfortable room since i am planning to try observe and document properly the every aspect of the BH. only problem is to ensure the entry is airtight or almost airtight.

Tweeter, you can wait for Ir Lee to comment. Meanwhile i'll just list down what was used for each floor of my BH (30x80, not the foundation or groundwork);

Y12 x 44
Y10 x ???
BRC x 50
Dawai ikat x 3

250 x bag simen
2 lori pasir
1 lori batu konkrit
(or 4 lori cement 5msq + sewa crane, the access road was very limiting)

plywood, chapcha (biasanya 2"x4") for support, and a dozen or more smaller items like paku 1 1/2 or 2 inch.

I mentioned before, i took over from the contractor (yes... i am a newbie)... but as some might notice, it was a bit too late. If i knew how lousy a contractor they would be, i would've sub'ed to another party immediately.

Tweeter, Y10,Y12 is besi type based on size/diameter, BRC is the steel frame laid inside the slab frames before pouring in the concrete. Normally they sell in tons. If Y12 per tonne (90 batang) at the time was around RM1200. I can't recall how many Y10's were used and a few other items... since all the invoices & receipts before i took over is with the contractor. Yes, there are pillars in the middle, i'll have to measure them back (pillars & beams). The previous Indonesian workers were very helpful in filling in the gaps and showing me bits and pieces of construction. However, its better to get advice from technical people like Ir Lee (since workers rarely know about specifications and calculations). Whatever it is, make sure there is no shortage of material to work on, and plan properly the delivery of materials.

Currently, they have finished building around 1k LWB's. I need roughly around 4400-4500 LWB's, translated into around 16-20 days more of block making. I'll make a comparative report on the difference of LWB and clay bricks once the time comes. Might help the swiftlet industry in the future. Sorry blabbling. Wanted to share. Light Weight Bricks or foam bricks, by the way.

nice vids. only heard stories from friends before.

This post has been edited by dunsuntutmybuntut: Sep 20 2009, 08:08 PM

[quote=xunji,Sep 20 2009, 08:59 PM]
[quote=dunsuntutmybuntut,Sep 20 2009, 07:21 PM]

Y- stand for high tensile steel. R- round steel
and the no behind indicate the diameter of the rebar

BRC are the rebar pre-welded together at factory. these will save the labour cost for the barbender.

normally 6m or approximatelly 20 feets are taken into consideration. But for your case, the land areas should be the major consideration. Hence column in the centre is unavoiable. For cost saving, maintain multiple sets of 6m x 4.5m retangular. where at every edge, a column are required.

to maintence the control room size, just create a mezzanise floor on top of the control room. in these the room height 1.85m will do, then on top of the room can be use as nesting place. 1.5m height between the mezzanise floor and the ceiling height the bird will made nest there.

regards,
xunji

[/quote]


Thanks a bunch xunji!!! I totally disregarded the control room height factor. It didn't cross my mind it could be extended in that manner.

haven't seen one before... but that sounds to me like poking a hornets nest. i mean... even shop lots are harassed with licenses/permits/undang-undang kecil kerajaan tempatan/PERHILITAN/complaints from various parties... and those are commercial/bangunan lots. A residential apartment??? Gila ah!!
(My personal point of view)

CWG, thanks for the links. i'm still eying that data logger...

This post has been edited by dunsuntutmybuntut: Sep 24 2009, 06:10 PM

Well, from the sound of it, theres no need for an answer if your still gonna do it whatever the reply. >.<

Just make sure tak 'kantoi' by the authorities or other residents, and since i am assuming theres bound to be building management and residents association... make sure the are kept in the dark as well. Actually the issue of utilizing commercial & residential lots for swiftlet activities has been discussed before in this thread/or V1.

Just a matter of discussion, are you absolutely sure the swiftlets nesting at the carpark are AF? Not insulting your knowledge, but it would be interesting discussion if you can post some pics for others to comment. Most of us are really into swiftlet behavior stuff and since these birds are sometimes unpredictable, it would be worth to babble/discuss about.

think that sums it up don't you think kotmj? people involved in the industry aren't so keen of the idea... what more authorities, residents & PERHILITAN. The GAHP is still being revised, but i'm sure more or less it'll be the same. Then again it's a free country, we do things at our own risk. No ones gonna hold you back, but the risks kena tanggung sendiri, and possibly giving further negative images of the industry.

Dear forumers, i would like to get some input regarding an idea i want to materialize; doing a survey regarding the swiftlet industry. A personal effort hopefully with the help of forumers, maybe one association and friends. Since theres nothing to it yet, please feel free to give input openly in this thread or just email me at dunsuntutmybuntut@gmail.com;

1. The Objective

2. Indicators

3. Questionnaires

The questions asked to respondents (of course everything is anonymous, no names no nothing... studies are like that, and if requested a non-disclosure can be signed). We can list down and sort/categorize them later.

Don't worry about the methodology & lit review (even the statistical analysis & interpretation), i got that covered. The target group... depends... separate issues can be split in different surveys (but can be given out simultaneously). Lets say if we want to ask owners about an estimate of their bird population, breeding rate etc... it would help refute the Akta Hidupan Liar about population/epidemiology of 'protected species'. If we want to refute association with zoonotic diseases, we can target BH owners as well as the surrounding population and interview local ornithologists/parasitologists/microbiologists, but not to the extent of sampling guano since lab tests will cost a bunch... unless VSD lends a hand (FOC). If forumers with technical expertise regarding structure, maybe questions/specifications of BH's as well? Minimum requirements for structural safety.

This more of a quantitative analysis then a qualitative one, hopefully there wont be a shortage of respondents (which in that case kena tuka jadi case study je la). Was thinking of asking the respondents to sign a petition as well, why not kill 2 birds with one stone. Sorry... not birds, cockroaches, marah AF nanti! >.<

Since most of the forumers here are involved in the industry, i'd like to get input first hand. It doesn't matter if some think this idea is crazy or a fruitless one, at least we can try do something within our capability.

Just came by this site;

http://www.cepp.utm.my/rnd_sbu_ebn.php

Also this one (the reason why i previously suggested strategically positioned BH's within a certain radius, basically it correlates contents/quality of EBN with food source and region);

http://medwelljournals.com/fulltext/jft/2008/39-44.pdf

This post has been edited by dunsuntutmybuntut: Sep 27 2009, 03:34 PM

Thanks, and np... anyways, until my BH gets nests... would be a pleasure to do surveys. Will update once in a while.

Sorry for asking eh Mr. Pang... i used to live in IM6, got lots of nice places to eat. Was one time when i had breakfast every morning at that kedai makan up there at Bay Route, the nasi minyak & nasi dagang is yummy!

(obviously i edited this) >.<

This post has been edited by dunsuntutmybuntut: Sep 30 2009, 10:49 AM

Yes, i believe so too aeiou228, i passed by the area yesterday evening on the way back to KL from KT. Kuantan is a haven just like KT. The BH's in town are to be envied... geram tengok the birds flying home.

There are also a few BH's within IM... not a good idea to mention where i guess since the authorities might pick it up. Mr. pang, i suggest you remove the location, and just give a general description, same to aeiou228 and myself (i'll edit mine after posting this). We don't want to cause trouble do we?

Sorry ChanK, and no offense taken since i understand what you mean and i believe all of us are exasperated by the never ending red tape and abuse. The reason i said so was for security reasons besides (exactly the scenario you mentioned, milking), i know that MPKT does monitor BH premises within their jurisdiction, just in case the premise was considered 'illegal' by the PBT. Mentioning the exact location of a BH is slightly risky, unless among trusted friends and acquaintances or within this community. We never know whose reading this forum.

CWG, can you direct me to which blog your talking about? I wanna read it as well. Thanks.

My dearest coolandy, thats why we need proper research in this field. Fact or fiction can easily be proven. We are in dire need of studies like this;

http://medwelljournals.com/fulltext/jft/2008/39-44.pdf

that study easily answers the questions posed by critics... is birds nest soup really that nutritional and benefits health??? Does the contents and chemical make up differ based on region (in other words feeding territory, cave or house nest)?

What i'd like to know is the population issue... if the population is in the millions, then why is it still in the protected species list? Why can't the 1972 Akta Perlindungan Hidupan Liar be based on population & epidemiology? We are contributing to conservation... but then again... what would happen if theres an issue of over population like what some people are facing in Indonesia? Will it effect quantity and quality of the nests, will it effect the population growth curve? Will it also effect the population of AF's prey? ***** betul... so many questions... no factual scientifically proven answer. Arrgggghh!!!!! I really do wish the associations will do some collaborative survey and compile the findings, present it to kementerian with recommendations + a memorandum. to me this is the fundamental issue or milestone we have to overcome... liberating the industry from Perhilitans clutches.

arong, i do know that gradual closure is the accepted way to close up an entry hole, but at what interval and how many bricks per interval... you must ask people who have done so. A friend did close an entry hole, he closed up half the entry in one day... but almost had a heart attack when only a few hundred birds entered in the evening... out of thousands (the reason he did so was to make the entry smaller, security reasons). In the end he bukak balik, and gradually did it week by week, one layer of bricks per interval (and of course the issue of scent). It worked for him but it might not be the same case for you. He played the same sound by the way. Another friend closed up one entry and opened another (to avoid detection)... but after more than 6 weeks, many birds still flew towards the sealed up hole despite entering from the new hole before dark.

please note that most of my views are from other peoples experience... i learned the hard way that we have to find knowledge ourselves and learn from sifu's as much as we can (not blindly bantai buat). people's experience is a valuable source of information, especially those who learned from trial and error.

no prob, but better get a second third maybe fourth opinion.

todays paper... still more mention about the MPSp's intention of moving swiftlet farmers out of the 40km radius guideline by PERHILITAN;

http://thestar.com.my/metro/story.asp?file...391&sec=central


Some things i do want to know;

1. Is there any cases of swiftlets caught in the turbines/propellers/whatever that propels the plane?
2. Is it common for aircrafts in Malaysia to fly at speeds faster than the speed of sound... swiftlets have extraordinary hearing... and should be able to detect incoming objects from far away, what more if the objects a bloody noisy plane.... and of course get out of the way.
3. WTF does Perhilitan know about airline regulations? Heck... WTF does Perhilitan know about swiftlets??????????
4. I'm wondering what guideline that Azizan Sidin is talking about.

Aiyo, didn't get a chance to read. swt. must be a forum reader? >.<

Hahaha... mosquitoes & flies!!! >.<

Thanks aerohead, was a very educative link. I think i'll e-mail the link to MPSp's president. I mean... based on what i read... it does seem that PERHILITAN is an authority on Aviation guidelines (not!!!)... there was no referring to the aviation governing body whatsoever... bulat-bulat from Perhilitan. Funny eh? After this maybe Perhiltan will launch its own airline... Swiftlet Air?

Sorry for asking CWG, i am not that familiar with humidifiers... but i'd like to know if they have warranties and if they do, for how long. Is it necessary for regular maintenance? Nesting area is about 6,240sqft (deducting LAL, audioroom)... so roughly meaning 2 humidifiers per floor... plus hygrostat/floor... still cheaper than mist spray system. Interesting.

coolandy, was planning to use hygrostats, but the main idea was to do some research regarding frequency & duration of mist spray (initial idea was using mist system using high pressure tubings with brass nozzles & Tee + 4L 60 nozzle pump with timer). according to my DIY work schedule, i am supposed to run these tests pilot run within 30-45 days after completion of BH and installation of mist system (theoretically during waiting for concrete smell to lessen, before application of parfum... data logger is necessary unless i want to be a bird and make my nest up in the planks). I still think hygrostats are necessary to reduce operational hassle... especially during variations of weather. 21 units, 2.5 years with no problem, thats impressive! i am assuming the humidifier requires minimum maintenance, and the water supply must be filtered?

CWG, the problem of wet floors was also one of the issues why i preferred mist system over humidifier. It can easily be overcome by putting the humidifier in a container i guess, can it? Secondly since the nozzles can pump mist to a certain distance... contra alignment of nozzles of opposing walls should cover the floor area.

seeseng, i calculated the pricing based on high pressure tubing plus brass nozzles, the reason so is the fact that brass nozzles despite being more costly, produces consistent smaller particles plus longer lasting. i desperately want to cut cost, but also have to balance with practicality & durability. also based on advice from friends, the ability to adjust humidity (increase or decrease duration & amount of mist) also plays a part during harvesting and quality of nest. i do plan to put the pump outside with both post main pipe & pre-pump filters. i noticed the water quality in the area is not consistent, at time... like teh tarik. how to say ah, i am a control freak, i want to make sure everything within reach is controllable so it can be manipulated for the birds preference (the birds are the boss!!!)... after that... its all up to the birds... mau tak mau make it their home! >.<
If only i knew how to rasuah the birds to come in & nest... makes me wish the birds were corrupt officials.

I roughly calculated the items for the mist system for a 30x80ft 3 story stand alone;

1 unit 4L 60 nozzle pump
180-200 meters of nylon hose (2500psi UV)
22 pcs brass center
6 pcs brass end
5 pcs brass T/Tee
28 nozzles type 1
8 pcs brass cap

brass caps used for unused centers/ends (can close up if necessary). hoses kept in mind for storage, just in case leaks happen, ada spare. the T's for junction in between floors and floor level. However... this might be an overkill... since i can't estimate or come to terms with number of nozzles with duration + frequency of mist spraying. Logically, one can reduce the number of nozzles by increasing duration & frequency of mist spraying... thus kena juga trial and error... i can't blindly follow other BH's calculations since each house is different. Also the need of nozzles may be dependent on floor level, the lower ones might need lesser number of nozzles since the main entry or outlet is on the uppermost floor. i'm a virgin BH owner... so i need to play safe, which also just might translate into higher cost. >.< open to discussions on positions & preferences (of humidity maintaining system... hahaha!!!).

so far, i have only visited standalones with mist system and kolam. the kolam to me is a big no, at least half have leakage problems (well, maybe due to poor water proofing & workmanship). the mist system ones seemed more appealing. sounds biased, eh? >.< maybe becoz the mentor used it, and proven ok?

sorry babbling, wanted to share opinions.