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 The Tailoring Thread, Bespoke. Nothing beats a perfect fit

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bloke1
post Aug 28 2010, 07:37 PM

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Elastic braided belt?


Added on August 28, 2010, 7:38 pmOr do you mean elastic waistband like those we wore during pre-school?

This post has been edited by bloke1: Aug 28 2010, 07:38 PM
kotmj
post Aug 28 2010, 11:13 PM

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I mean as in a Canali braided elastic belt like I'm wearing now.


Added on August 28, 2010, 11:32 pmuser posted image

This post has been edited by kotmj: Aug 28 2010, 11:32 PM
gshen
post Aug 29 2010, 12:33 AM

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QUOTE(beau @ Aug 28 2010, 09:28 AM)
There's great friendship but nothing bordering on love.

I have known him through university & remained friends over the years despite having been colleagues, collaborators & competitors in the professional sense. It seems that the remarks about him were uncharacteristic.


Added on August 28, 2010, 10:16 am

Gshen,

Thanks for this detailed feedback. The root cause of the issue at hand is clear:-

1. He informed me that he wanted a jacket which would be used in travel around the region in warmer climates. The jacket has to have numerous pockets to carry the mobile devices that seems to be a growing part of today's life & yet adopt to situations where business casual is called for or allow him to put on a tie & look respectable in a club or restaurant with more stringent dress code. Part of his intent was communicated to your mutual tailor although the second part about the business casual use was not.

2. I understand that the swatch material booklet was not available at that material time. He prefers lighter fabrics in the 10 to 11 oz range -I have recommended him the W Bill linens & also the Harrisions both of which are good alternatives to the H & S linens .

3. He was trying to garner some understanding of your mutual tailor's capability & seems to be  comfortable with their previous dealings where she ( I thought it was a he ) has been reasonably forthright about his choice of options. The problem lies in his expectation of "soft" . He was expecting "Italian Soft" when "British Soft" would probably be more appropriate given the jacket's use. I think he has come to this realization after the recent interaction with your mutual tailor .

4. There appears to be some confusion over the "gorge" . What he wants is a high gorge but cut either in the same style as the Armani or the Brioni .I don't think he meant that the gorge position would be the same as these two jackets that was used as references. As far as cut of the Brioni is concerned his remarks are quoted verbatim:
"That gentleman never had to endure long meetings where one is expected to be fully suited. Being well tailored is one thing but comfort super cedes close fit in the final analysis"  .

5. He anticipated the potential lack of comprehension which is why he used pictures to help illustrate his point. Based on the samples he's seen in the shop  , he seems to be reasonably confident that your tailor will be able to deliver 80% of his requirements.

I think he needs to remember that he is not dealing with someone on the Row or Rome & with that in mind , I would proposed that he takes the following remedial action:-

1. Look at W Bill & Harrisons before deciding to go with the H & K Linens,
2. Provide greater detail to your mutual tailor on the use of the jacket so she acquires a better understanding of his needs
3. Clarify the issues regarding the gorge & jacket structure  . Go thought all his requirements again to ensure that there is some consensus with your mutual tailor.

There seems to be culpability on all sides but this episode serves as a good reminder that we need to be clear when instructing our tailors & the tailor's first task is to ask the client what & how he plans to use the clothes commissioned & provide suggestions .

On my part I would not mention your negative remarks about him ( with the exception of the Brioni ) least you encounter him on a professional basis. I apologize for my blunt demeanor and hard talk  - a habit picked up from attending reviews .

p.s. It is great to hear that your mutual tailor has a nice ambience much like a gentleman's club. It reminds me of the stories I've read about the late Douglas Hayward & his clients as well as my personal experiences with the smaller Italian tailors where a fitting is often accompanied with an offer of food or drinks thus adding to the congenial atmosphere.
*
If all that kilojoules of energy I spent typing has helped at all, I guess it was worth it then. I never intended to be argumentative or come across as an a**hole, and I think my posts in the past, whether here or on SF, can prove that.

Maybe the club like atmosphere will better convince you that I am just a happy customer & not affiliated with them in any way. Free coffee from killiney (sometimes) and idle chat about cloth is far more interesting than taking a look at what's new at Zara for me.

With regards to your friend's comment about me never having to spend long periods of time in my suits - I think it's not cool to make such a remark since he has no clue how & when I wear my suits. Unless I am being stalked. Also, I have moved past my initial 'tight' fitting commissions to a more comfortable fit as recently shown.

Also, I am in the camp that believes comfort does not have to be sacrificed for a good, clean fit. The author of this blog has documented his experiments with drape & concludes the same: http://tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/search/label/drape

BTW - just FYI, W.Bill is not available at Iris tailor. Harrisons is and I think he was browsing the book that day. H&S is probably better, but more $$$. No better options for linen that I can suggest, unfortunately.

Oh, and his shoes were very nicely shined that day - kudos to him for that. I complimented him for that in person.


QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 28 2010, 11:22 AM)
The one thing that would most increase the perception of comfort is sufficient upper back width. Office workers slouch a great deal, and the back needs to be wide enough to accommodate this. If you do not see blades of drape at the back of the armsyce, the jacket will not be perceived as a comfortable one. This is further compounded when the arms are expected to be resting on the table in front of you. One would actually need pleats at the back for this.

The next problem to solve is the mass of canvassing , shoulder and chest padding on the front of the jacket. It makes for a voluminous obstruction to the slouch posture. Remove the volume padding and substitute the haircloth with hymo. To further allow the chest are to be compressed, the canvas should be soft, and cut on the bias. The chest pad should also not extend all the way into the armscye, but instead end an inch or so from it.

A mass of pockets adds substantially to the insulating properties of the jacket. A far cooler solution is patch pockets.

Armholes should be high to reduce the likelihood of the jacket vertically displacing itself when one is seated.

The buttoning point should be high.

Trousers should be fishtail, because with such trousers the waistband loosely encompasses the waist, allowing for the inevitable circumference increase of the gut when seated. If fishtails cannot be considered, an elastic braided belt would be a good alternative.

The trousers should be cut on the easy side, with plenty of crotch allowance.

I would not go with linen for the uses you mentioned. My first choice would be high-percentage mohair, because it is always crisp, always business-appropriate, yet is very cool especially in combination with a quarter lining in ermazine. Wrinkles fall out faster than anything I've seen. Featherweight mohair (8 oz) has all the shape retaining capabilities of a much heavier wool, so the jacket is lighter to pack. (Do you really want to pack a 15 oz linen?) Also worth considering are tropical wools from the Italians and of course fresco, but these do not have the light weight and drape properties of high-percentage mohair.


Added on August 28, 2010, 2:36 pmYet another feature that makes for a cool jacket is the single button silhouette with very open quarters. This kind of silhouette is one step away from wearing the jacket unbuttoned.
*
+1 on most counts, especially the fact that you mentioned back width as most important for comfort. A shapely waist need not be sacrificed for comfort.

I don't know about the fishtail trousers though, as braces tend to wear warm, which would be a compromise in that case.

TBH I have not tried mohair, but from what my tailor tells me, the stuff she has made up in Harrisons' mohair (cape kid I think?) has been less than stellar in terms of drape. Dugdale's Cape Breeze seems like a good option, but Fresco seems to drape better, at least in the heavier 9-10oz weights.

Also worth considering is the London Lounge Brisa, which drapes NICE and feels ridiculously light even though it weighs in at 13oz. I've been lucky enough to handle 2 lengths of a friend's order, and everyone who has held the cloth thinks it's a 10oz cloth. If they make a lighter shade in PoW, I am so getting some of that stuff. Alden is a genius.



BikerVoodoo
post Aug 29 2010, 10:55 AM

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This video is quite good. I hope to find a tailor in Malaysia who can match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlX9pcBOqT0

Oxxford - Anatomy of a suit

This post has been edited by BikerVoodoo: Aug 29 2010, 10:56 AM
kotmj
post Aug 29 2010, 03:55 PM

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I fingered some Alumo swatches today, including their Soyella Zephyrs and frankly, I think I'm perfectly happy with Acorn's plebian 2X2 100s. Where I am not happy with Acorn are their stupid designs. Alumo's designs are understated, sophisticated and regal. Acorn's invariably makes you look like a country bumpkin from the English provinces. Too colourful, too vibrant, almost naif. One design feature of Alumo is the satin stripe. They use it to devastating effect in many of their cloths. Acorn, OTOH, only makes plain two dimensional cloths -- their satin stripes are all against a dark background in a particular range that is totally unfit for office wear.

But Alumo is ridiculously priced. RM1.3k for a single shirt. The problem has less to do with production cost. It has everything to do with their distribution model. It looks like this:

Manufacturer --> Distributor --> Tailor --> Kotmj

Whereas with Acorn, the distribution model is like this:

Manufacturer --> Kotmj

It's the same with suiting cloths. Zegna, H&S, Dormeuil, Scabal and the whole please-rob-me-poor gang:

Manufacturer --> Distributor --> Tailor --> Kotmj

Whereas with Dugdale, it used to be like Acorn:

Manufacturer --> Kotmj

though recently they have become

Manufacturer + small distributor's markup --> Kotmj


Added on August 29, 2010, 4:41 pmBought some very old 16L MOPs. For some reason they look larger than they are. I think it's because the holes are smaller than normal.

user posted image

This post has been edited by kotmj: Aug 29 2010, 04:41 PM
bloke1
post Aug 29 2010, 09:10 PM

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Must be another ebay snipe. How much?


Added on August 29, 2010, 9:25 pmYou're not supposed to buy MOP buttons from anonymous sources. Go order from gshen you must.

This post has been edited by bloke1: Aug 29 2010, 09:25 PM
kotmj
post Aug 29 2010, 10:08 PM

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I cannot afford gshen's MOPs (I need to eat), besides you ought to remember what I said about how I only buy the "stars".

The reason I made an exception this time is because almost every button on the card looks like a star. They appear to me to have been pre-selected. Don't you agree?

They cost exactly as much as in the mystery haberdashery in KL (which no longer has any stars left, I bought them all up). I think it's a fantastic deal.

(A star is a button that exhibits a particularly high level of iridescence. Typically, only one in 20 buttons exhibit this property.)
gshen
post Aug 29 2010, 11:36 PM

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I actually included a few button samples with the mystery package for you. (before I read this post, really!)

You're right that not all MOP buttons are the same.. they are natural materials and not all can be buffed to the same degree of shine. Perfection with consistency can be achieved - it's man made and also called plastic.

But I try to eliminate poor buttons if you've seen my B&S post, and if you are extra anal I can try to choose 'stars' only.. of course if you are buying 500 buttons I cannot guarantee all will be stars!

Those vintage buttons are pretty nice, but some seem to have chips and dings - I reject any buttons with these defects immediately.
BikerVoodoo
post Aug 30 2010, 03:39 AM

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I need an 'ultimate sb navy blazer' for work. Any suggestions? I was thinking of starting a new thread but since this one's already here ...

My last suit jacket has bubbled and puckered I've decided to splurge a bit and go all the way - hand canvassed. Question is, who can do it? ALT is closest to my office. I noticed that he was working on something that looks hand-canvassed.

Anyway my idea is for a single-breasted, notched lapel navy blazer, blue worsted serge. Buttons will be brass. 2 x 1" front buttons and working cuffs with 3 x 3/4" buttons. I opted for 3 and not 4 on each cuff due to the size of the buttons. The USBNB will be used regularly with odd trousers in khaki, navy or gray.

This post has been edited by BikerVoodoo: Aug 30 2010, 03:43 AM
kotmj
post Aug 30 2010, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(BikerVoodoo @ Aug 30 2010, 03:39 AM)
I need an 'ultimate sb navy blazer' for work. Any suggestions? I was thinking of starting a new thread but since this one's already here ...

My last suit jacket has bubbled and puckered I've decided to splurge a bit and go all the way - hand canvassed. Question is, who can do it? ALT is closest to my office. I noticed that he was working on something that looks hand-canvassed.

Anyway my idea is for a single-breasted, notched lapel navy blazer, blue worsted serge. Buttons will be brass. 2 x 1" front buttons and working cuffs with 3 x 3/4" buttons. I opted for 3 and not 4 on each cuff due to the size of the buttons. The USBNB will be used regularly with odd trousers in khaki, navy or gray.
*
Have you tried enquiring wif wardrobe? they have a standalone boutique on jln maarof that looks like the lobby of a 5 star hotel, and one of the sales personnel is a tall fair pretty girl who likes to sit very close to you when consulting on cloths. they also many of the finest swatch books.
BikerVoodoo
post Aug 30 2010, 12:31 PM

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Not a fan. Two colleagues were not exactly happy with what they got there. Cap Kuda is closest to my office.
kotmj
post Aug 30 2010, 12:44 PM

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but you can ask the wardrobe girl out for coffee. that would maek everything worthwhile. her tits tremble when she walks.

in any case yr fabric intention is wrong, you will cook alive in serge. go for fresco, tropical wool or kid mohair. go for a suit, not just blazer. go for patch pockets. ermazine lining. smoked MOP buttons, not "brass".
BikerVoodoo
post Aug 30 2010, 12:52 PM

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Trembling mammaries! rclxms.gif

Maybe I'll check this place out after all. New place right?

Hmmm, I wanted something like this:

user posted image

Metal buttons. brows.gif

kotmj
post Aug 30 2010, 01:01 PM

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your not gonna look anywaer as glamorous as the model. i've seen ppl with navy blazers + gilt buttons, and the buttons look out of place. especially in an office setting, you want something more civil, something quieter.

those tits were sculptures by god for men to suck on and bury their faces into.
bloke1
post Aug 30 2010, 01:16 PM

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We look forward to seeing your navy DB suit with excited anticipation.


Added on August 30, 2010, 1:17 pmBaikerVoodoo, I would go with white MOP.

This post has been edited by bloke1: Aug 30 2010, 01:17 PM
kotmj
post Aug 30 2010, 01:22 PM

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im not posting pics of my completed db i gain no advantage.

calling al to see if its done.
bloke1
post Aug 30 2010, 01:29 PM

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Kakmj: Har lo, Ah loke ah? Ngor kin dai sam duk chor mei ah?

ALT: Mm hou yi si ah. Gor jor mai di ka sin duk ah! Mm duk gwai han ah!
kotmj
post Aug 30 2010, 01:48 PM

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It's done. But too lazy to go pick it up.
MeToo
post Aug 30 2010, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 30 2010, 01:48 PM)
It's done. But too lazy to go pick it up.
*
I'm dropping by this evening. Need me to take a few pics and post it here on your behalf?
kotmj
post Aug 30 2010, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(MeToo @ Aug 30 2010, 02:12 PM)
I'm dropping by this evening. Need me to take a few pics and post it here on your behalf?
*
Keep your pudgy cum-stained fingers off my db.

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