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 The Tailoring Thread, Bespoke. Nothing beats a perfect fit

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kotmj
post Aug 31 2010, 02:24 AM

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Not stars
user posted image

A star
user posted image
bloke1
post Aug 31 2010, 12:00 PM

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It's sartorial Sunday. So thought of giving some Ambrosi treatment on my pleats.
[attachmentid=1756699]
-Wait, it's already Tuesday.

This post has been edited by bloke1: Aug 31 2010, 09:27 PM
kotmj
post Aug 31 2010, 01:03 PM

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do that to your pockets
bloke1
post Aug 31 2010, 01:07 PM

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Pockets already have machined bar tacks. I'm considering removing them actually.
kotmj
post Aug 31 2010, 01:12 PM

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The cloth under the bar tacks are probably mangled.
bloke1
post Aug 31 2010, 01:33 PM

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I've checked the underside, it's fine.


Added on August 31, 2010, 2:09 pmuser posted image

On a pair of Ambrosis, the hem is not finished/serged.


Added on August 31, 2010, 4:32 pmWhy ah?

This post has been edited by bloke1: Aug 31 2010, 04:32 PM
malutapimau
post Aug 31 2010, 06:35 PM

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i think they just lazy,,,,,


Added on August 31, 2010, 7:00 pmbest practice is to fold the hem edge one time before do the hand-sew,,,,,but we'll need extra cloth

This post has been edited by malutapimau: Aug 31 2010, 07:00 PM
kotmj
post Aug 31 2010, 07:11 PM

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The hem of Zuperpent+ is finished like the Ambrosi. Raw edge, sewn over. It makes for a less bulky hem.
bloke1
post Aug 31 2010, 07:31 PM

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It will fray like mad in no time.
kotmj
post Aug 31 2010, 07:32 PM

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No fraying on Zuperpent+.


Added on August 31, 2010, 10:31 pm
QUOTE(BikerVoodoo @ Aug 30 2010, 03:26 PM)
Thanks. Now where do I get this in Malaysia, and how much do I need?
*
If you are of average Malaysian male height 3 meters should be plenty for a 2-piece in a plain (non-check) cloth.

There is actually no such thing as different tailors needing different amounts for the same suit. There is, however, such a things as different tailors having different levels of qualm about swindling you. Tailors make a tonload of money on cloth markups, and many will tell you you need 4 meters when you need no more than 2.7 m.

They also have the universal tendency to show you the Zegna swatches first.

You can ask the tailor to source for Dugdale for you, or you can do so yourself and avoid his markup. PM me for details.

This post has been edited by kotmj: Aug 31 2010, 10:31 PM
beau
post Sep 1 2010, 12:20 AM

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QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 28 2010, 11:22 AM)
The one thing that would most increase the perception of comfort is sufficient upper back width. Office workers slouch a great deal, and the back needs to be wide enough to accommodate this. If you do not see blades of drape at the back of the armsyce, the jacket will not be perceived as a comfortable one. This is further compounded when the arms are expected to be resting on the table in front of you. One would actually need pleats at the back for this.

The next problem to solve is the mass of canvassing , shoulder and chest padding on the front of the jacket. It makes for a voluminous obstruction to the slouch posture. Remove the volume padding and substitute the haircloth with hymo. To further allow the chest are to be compressed, the canvas should be soft, and cut on the bias. The chest pad should also not extend all the way into the armscye, but instead end an inch or so from it.

A mass of pockets adds substantially to the insulating properties of the jacket. A far cooler solution is patch pockets.

Armholes should be high to reduce the likelihood of the jacket vertically displacing itself when one is seated.

The buttoning point should be high.

Trousers should be fishtail, because with such trousers the waistband loosely encompasses the waist, allowing for the inevitable circumference increase of the gut when seated. If fishtails cannot be considered, an elastic braided belt would be a good alternative.

The trousers should be cut on the easy side, with plenty of crotch allowance.

I would not go with linen for the uses you mentioned. My first choice would be high-percentage mohair, because it is always crisp, always business-appropriate, yet is very cool especially in combination with a quarter lining in ermazine. Wrinkles fall out faster than anything I've seen. Featherweight mohair (8 oz) has all the shape retaining capabilities of a much heavier wool, so the jacket is lighter to pack. (Do you really want to pack a 15 oz linen?) Also worth considering are tropical wools from the Italians and of course fresco, but these do not have the light weight and drape properties of high-percentage mohair.


Added on August 28, 2010, 2:36 pmYet another feature that makes for a cool jacket is the single button silhouette with very open quarters. This kind of silhouette is one step away from wearing the jacket unbuttoned.
*
I'm going to leave my friend to move ahead on his own since his mind is set on commissioning a linen jacket.

What you've suggested is ideal but I've yet to see any tailor in South East Asia do this well.

They either leave too much fabric in the wrong part of the jacket which does not give the clean back effect or make it too tight which results in an uncomfortable fit.

I agree fishtail trousers with braces are ideal for comfort .

Hymo's combination of Goat's Hair & Wool makes it softer than the normal Horse Hair lining . Have you come across Camel Hair lining which is used by some Italian tailors to create the soft jacket look?

I made a Navy jacket in Escorial several years back. Lovely to wear in this climate & very crease resistant due to the hopsack weave. Unfortunately the fabric has been discontinued & what's available is priced egregiously high.


Added on September 1, 2010, 12:32 am
QUOTE(gshen @ Aug 29 2010, 12:33 AM)
If all that kilojoules of energy I spent typing has helped at all, I guess it was worth it then. I never intended to be argumentative or come across as an a**hole, and I think my posts in the past, whether here or on SF, can prove that.

Maybe the club like atmosphere will better convince you that I am just a happy customer & not affiliated with them in any way. Free coffee from killiney (sometimes) and idle chat about cloth is far more interesting than taking a look at what's new at Zara for me.

With regards to your friend's comment about me never having to spend long periods of time in my suits - I think it's not cool to make such a remark since he has no clue how & when I wear my suits. Unless I am being stalked. Also, I have moved past my initial 'tight' fitting commissions to a more comfortable fit as recently shown.

Also, I am in the camp that believes comfort does not have to be sacrificed for a good, clean fit. The author of this blog has documented his experiments with drape & concludes the same: http://tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/search/label/drape

BTW - just FYI, W.Bill is not available at Iris tailor. Harrisons is and I think he was browsing the book that day. H&S is probably better, but more $$$. No better options for linen that I can suggest, unfortunately.

Oh, and his shoes were very nicely shined that day - kudos to him for that. I complimented him for that in person.
+1 on most counts, especially the fact that you mentioned back width as most important for comfort. A shapely waist need not be sacrificed for comfort.

I don't know about the fishtail trousers though, as braces tend to wear warm, which would be a compromise in that case.

TBH I have not tried mohair, but from what my tailor tells me, the stuff she has made up in Harrisons' mohair (cape kid I think?) has been less than stellar in terms of drape. Dugdale's Cape Breeze seems like a good option, but Fresco seems to drape better, at least in the heavier 9-10oz weights.

Also worth considering is the London Lounge Brisa, which drapes NICE and feels ridiculously light even though it weighs in at 13oz. I've been lucky enough to handle 2 lengths of a friend's order, and everyone who has held the cloth thinks it's a 10oz cloth. If they make a lighter shade in PoW, I am so getting some of that stuff. Alden is a genius.
*
Thanks. I agree that there is a balance to be struck between fit & comfort & it takes a very skilled tailor to achieve this . The Italians seem to have a knack for this as with WW Chan & Gordon Yao in HK. Harrisons Mersolairs would not be my choice & would not be able to comment on H & S linens not having physically felt any samples.

My friend is in London this week & will probably head down to Burlington Gardens to see Ray in his basement shop.

Was he wearing his Pierre Corthay shoes?

W Bill is a lovely shop & has great service. Wonderful to deal with.


Added on September 1, 2010, 12:34 am
QUOTE(BikerVoodoo @ Aug 29 2010, 10:55 AM)
This video is quite good. I hope to find a tailor in Malaysia who can match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlX9pcBOqT0

Oxxford - Anatomy of a suit
*
One fine day if there is sufficient demand & the market is sophisticated to make the right requests


Added on September 1, 2010, 12:47 am
QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 29 2010, 03:55 PM)
I fingered some Alumo swatches today, including their Soyella Zephyrs and frankly, I think I'm perfectly happy with Acorn's plebian 2X2 100s. Where I am not happy with Acorn are their stupid designs. Alumo's designs are understated, sophisticated and regal. Acorn's invariably makes you look like a country bumpkin from the English provinces. Too colourful, too vibrant, almost naif. One design feature of Alumo is the satin stripe. They use it to devastating effect in many of their cloths. Acorn, OTOH, only makes plain two dimensional cloths -- their satin stripes are all against a dark background in a particular range that is totally unfit for office wear.

But Alumo is ridiculously priced. RM1.3k for a single shirt. The problem has less to do with production cost. It has everything to do with their distribution model. It looks like this:

Manufacturer --> Distributor --> Tailor --> Kotmj

Whereas with Acorn, the distribution model is like this:

Manufacturer --> Kotmj

It's the same with suiting cloths. Zegna, H&S, Dormeuil, Scabal and the whole please-rob-me-poor gang:

Manufacturer --> Distributor --> Tailor --> Kotmj

Whereas with Dugdale, it used to be like Acorn:

Manufacturer --> Kotmj

though recently they have become

Manufacturer + small distributor's markup --> Kotmj


Added on August 29, 2010, 4:41 pmBought some very old 16L MOPs. For some reason they look larger than they are. I think it's because the holes are smaller than normal.

user posted image
*
Nice buttons.

I didn't know that Alumo is available in Malaysia. Great fabric very reliable but limited patterns . I think you can get better prices for Alumo in HK.

I was informed that the English fabric manufacturers are flexible in selling single shirt /suit lengths whilst the Italians require a minimum 10 shirt/suit length order before they would accept an order. The distributors would either need to consolidate their orders or charge higher mark ups for carrying inventory.

BTW I have managed to purchase Acorns & John Hardys at slightly lower prices than the quote price on their websites.

HK prices seem to be cheaper than Malaysia/Singapore .

The US probably has the cheapest prices ( & in some instances it can be cheaper than what the same cloth is sold for in Europe )


Added on September 1, 2010, 12:53 am
QUOTE(BikerVoodoo @ Aug 30 2010, 03:39 AM)
I need an 'ultimate sb navy blazer' for work. Any suggestions? I was thinking of starting a new thread but since this one's already here ...

My last suit jacket has bubbled and puckered I've decided to splurge a bit and go all the way - hand canvassed. Question is, who can do it? ALT is closest to my office. I noticed that he was working on something that looks hand-canvassed.

Anyway my idea is for a single-breasted, notched lapel navy blazer, blue worsted serge. Buttons will be brass. 2 x 1" front buttons and working cuffs with 3 x 3/4" buttons. I opted for 3 and not 4 on each cuff due to the size of the buttons. The USBNB will be used regularly with odd trousers in khaki, navy or gray.
*
I think ALT would do a credible job.

I have one made in Escorial 5 years back & have recently refurnished it with new lining etc . The fabric is reasonably hard wearing ,crease resistant & nice to wear in our climate. Unfortunately the fabric is no longer available & what's out there is over priced.

May I suggest Benson & Clegg,London for the buttons? Perhaps a nice lacquered button with an understated design .


Added on September 1, 2010, 12:54 am
QUOTE(bloke1 @ Aug 30 2010, 03:41 PM)
user posted image

Taken from a Bespoked runway. I don't know what to say.
*
How about #@%&^!!


Added on September 1, 2010, 12:58 am
QUOTE(bloke1 @ Aug 30 2010, 03:48 PM)
user posted image

2 years anniversary. Awful fit.
*
Trying to make Norman Blackwell's list? I would assume that the tailor would himself be well attired but this does not appear to be the case. Don't think one would find any of the tailors on the Row would dress poorly lest it reflects on their lack of tailoring abilities!!


Added on September 1, 2010, 1:01 am
QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 31 2010, 02:24 AM)
Not stars
user posted image

A star
user posted image
*
The T & A cufflinks are Sterling Silver which accounts for the lack of star quality


Added on September 1, 2010, 1:05 am
QUOTE(BikerVoodoo @ Aug 30 2010, 03:26 PM)
Thanks. Now where do I get this in Malaysia, and how much do I need?
*
E Bay for excellent pricing. Binwani is currently on sale, not sure if you could pick up something in that range

This post has been edited by beau: Sep 1 2010, 01:05 AM
silencer
post Sep 1 2010, 01:52 AM

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QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 31 2010, 07:32 PM)
No fraying on Zuperpent+.


Added on August 31, 2010, 10:31 pm
If you are of average Malaysian male height 3 meters should be plenty for a 2-piece in a plain (non-check) cloth.

There is actually no such thing as different tailors needing different amounts for the same suit. There is, however, such a things as different tailors having different levels of qualm about swindling you. Tailors make a tonload of money on cloth markups, and many will tell you you need 4 meters when you need no more than 2.7 m.

They also have the universal tendency to show you the Zegna swatches first.

You can ask the tailor to source for Dugdale for you, or you can do so yourself and avoid his markup. PM me for details.
*
Sir Kotmj, mind telling me on how good is the quality of Dugdale wool fabric if compared with the other Italian fabrics.
adzyme
post Sep 1 2010, 06:45 AM

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hi guys. id like to alter some of my jeans. could u guys list out the best (and affordable) tailors for me in kl, together with the price? if they are near to wangsa maju is better. thanks alot.
beau
post Sep 1 2010, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(adzyme @ Sep 1 2010, 06:45 AM)
hi guys. id like to alter some of my jeans. could u guys list out the best (and affordable) tailors for me in kl, together with the price? if they are near to wangsa maju is better. thanks alot.
*
Use the search function . It may help answer your question
BikerVoodoo
post Sep 1 2010, 10:24 AM

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Thanks guys I'll be checking out a few places for fabrics for my 'ultimate single breasted navy blazer' or USBNB. It won't be everyone's cup of tea but it will suit my requirements.
gshen
post Sep 1 2010, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(silencer @ Sep 1 2010, 01:52 AM)
Sir Kotmj, mind telling me on how good is the quality of Dugdale wool fabric if compared with the other Italian fabrics.
*
I'm not kotmj, but why is your benchmark other Italian brands? Loro Piana (and supposedly Carlo Barbera - have not touched) is solid stuff, but like H&S, way $$$$$. Cerruti, zegna and the like are just OK and generally overpriced too.. VBC is cheap-ish, but as with all Italian cloths, beware of 2x1 weave constructions vs the typical english 2x2 which tend to be much more durable. The compromise is of course a silkier and lighter feel, which appeals to the masses. I like the security of knowing my cloth is not going to self-destruct on me anytime.

That said, i have yet to commission anything from Dugdale myself, but amongst my friends/family who have had things done with New Fine Worsted and Cape Breeze, the response is overwhelmingly positive esp considering the price. IMO the quality (not talking about price/value) compares well to the bigger english names like Harrisons and Minnis at a very affordable pricepoint. I can't speak the same for their Thomas Fisher supers ranges though, but then again i'm not a fan of supers.

Bottomline - Dugdale makes good, no nonsense english cloth. If you are looking for that, it is a solid contender - but if you are looking for fancy marketing to reassure you, look elsewhere.


kotmj
post Sep 1 2010, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(silencer @ Sep 1 2010, 01:52 AM)
Sir Kotmj, mind telling me on how good is the quality of Dugdale wool fabric if compared with the other Italian fabrics.
*
Yang Berbahagia Tan Sri Dato' silencer, may I mention that AL has all the Dugdale books. He also (apparently) has the Zegna books. You may compare them side by side if you will.

However I am pretty certain Zegna will win the handle test. The Italians understand popular appeal better than the English.

Dugdale has an excellent reputation, but unlike EZ spends nothing on advertising, has low overheads and a less bloated distribution model.


Added on September 1, 2010, 11:00 pmI happened upon a tailoring shop after dinner today. It's in an old part of KL and the place looks like it has been there for half a century at least. Once I get back from my business trip I'll drop in. It has a nice name too, identical to a famous cloth mill.


Added on September 2, 2010, 12:25 am
QUOTE(beau @ Sep 1 2010, 12:20 AM)
Hymo's combination of Goat's Hair & Wool makes it softer than the normal Horse Hair lining . Have you come across Camel Hair lining which is used by some Italian tailors to create the soft jacket look?


Added on September 1, 2010, 12:53 am

I have one made in Escorial 5 years back & have recently refurnished it with new lining etc . The fabric is reasonably hard wearing ,crease resistant  & nice to wear in our climate. Unfortunately the fabric is no longer available & what's out there is over priced.
*
1. Get yourself on the "cutters and tailors" forum (read but do not post, it's for professionals only), it has the most complete description of canvasses available for purchase. When selecting a proper hymo, you want the hymo and the cloth to form a supple whole. The way you check for this is to drape your cloth over the hymo and see if you like the drape and hand of the two together. Tailors have a lot of experience matching hymo to cloth. Me? I just took a shot in the dark.

2. With soft jackets, there is danger of the chest collapsing.

3. A year back there was the most delicious H&S 70% escorial wool + 30% summer kid mohair cloth in a hopsack weave available for 35 pounds/meter on ebay. I eyed the thing for months before some lucky sod bought it. The only failing of the cloth was that it was a pinstripe, and I dislike pinstripes.

This post has been edited by kotmj: Sep 2 2010, 12:25 AM
beau
post Sep 2 2010, 02:04 AM

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QUOTE(kotmj @ Sep 1 2010, 10:58 AM)
Yang Berbahagia Tan Sri Dato' silencer, may I mention that AL has all the Dugdale books. He also (apparently) has the Zegna books. You may compare them side by side if you will.

However I am pretty certain Zegna will win the handle test. The Italians understand popular appeal better than the English.

Dugdale has an excellent reputation, but unlike EZ spends nothing on advertising, has low overheads and a less bloated distribution model.


Added on September 1, 2010, 11:00 pmI happened upon a tailoring shop after dinner today. It's in an old part of KL and the place looks like it has been there for half a century at least. Once I get back from my business trip I'll drop in. It has a nice name too, identical to a famous cloth mill.


Added on September 2, 2010, 12:25 am
1. Get yourself on the "cutters and tailors" forum (read but do not post, it's for professionals only), it has the most complete description of canvasses available for purchase. When selecting a proper hymo, you want the hymo and the cloth to form a supple whole. The way you check for this is to drape your cloth over the hymo and see if you like the drape and hand of the two together. Tailors have a lot of experience matching hymo to cloth. Me? I just took a shot in the dark.

2. With soft jackets, there is danger of the chest collapsing.

3. A year back there was the most delicious H&S 70% escorial wool + 30% summer kid mohair cloth in a hopsack weave available for 35 pounds/meter on ebay. I eyed the thing for months before some lucky sod bought it. The only failing of the cloth was that it was a pinstripe, and I dislike pinstripes.
*
Thanks for the tip.

1. I would probably stick with the normal horse hair canvas on my first outing with AL before moving on the soft or unlined jacket.

2. I had my jacket made in Taylor & Reid Escorial at a very reasonable price some years back. The long fibers gave it strength & lightness that the fabric still looks as good as the day it was made with the linings recently replaced by the tailor that made it.

Unfortunately the fabric is no longer available & the big boys ( Loro Piana, H & S etc ) along with the likes of Brioni & Kiton have gotten in the act. Prices are now 4 times what it costs to make a suit in normal run of the mill wool. That E Bay offer at STG35 is a steal .


Added on September 2, 2010, 2:13 am
QUOTE(gshen @ Sep 1 2010, 10:52 AM)
I'm not kotmj, but why is your benchmark other Italian brands? Loro Piana (and supposedly Carlo Barbera - have not touched) is solid stuff, but like H&S, way $$$$$. Cerruti, zegna and the like are just OK and generally overpriced too.. VBC is cheap-ish, but as with all Italian cloths, beware of 2x1 weave constructions vs the typical english 2x2 which tend to be much more durable. The compromise is of course a silkier and lighter feel, which appeals to the masses. I like the security of knowing my cloth is not going to self-destruct on me anytime.

That said, i have yet to commission anything from Dugdale myself, but amongst my friends/family who have had things done with New Fine Worsted and Cape Breeze, the response is overwhelmingly positive esp considering the price. IMO the quality (not talking about price/value) compares well to the bigger english names like Harrisons and Minnis at a very affordable pricepoint. I can't speak the same for their Thomas Fisher supers ranges though, but then again i'm not a fan of supers.

Bottomline - Dugdale makes good, no nonsense english cloth. If you are looking for that, it is a solid contender - but if you are looking for fancy marketing to reassure you, look elsewhere.
*
Carlo Barbera is extremely difficult to get , very expensive & may be more interesting for tweeds given some of their unusual color variations.

Thomas Fisher is readily available at Binwanis which is currently on sale but will probably lose out in terms of touch & feel to the Loro Pianas & Zegna.

The older Cerutti fabrics may be worth a look as I understand that they are moving their manufacturing to China.

The normal Trofeo range for Zegna is quite good for this climate & reasonably crease resistant. The 15 Mil Mil range is lovely to touch & wear but will not wear well & require the attention of a very good dry cleaner

This post has been edited by beau: Sep 2 2010, 02:13 AM
bloke1
post Sep 2 2010, 06:06 PM

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http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/boutonniere-loop/
beau
post Sep 2 2010, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(bloke1 @ Sep 2 2010, 06:06 PM)
As simple as that?

Much better to have a boutonniere than seeing all these flowers fasten on with safety pins which is the norm here.

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