Just show them a fused suit for Spark man shop ( in black shinny polywool from Nagoya ) & machined button holes ( fake & plastic buttons )

Have a picture taken outside ALT to deter potential customers

Thereafter send the same suit to Gshen to model outside Iris.

A sure fire way to send off any potential Satorialist!!

you mock, but wait till you see my mint green linen made up and soon! my mint green acorn zephyr (like fnb's)

What's it to you in any event? If he wants to drive off the cliff in his Ferrari surely that's his choice. The world will be a very boring place if every one does things the same way. There is a method to his madness & you don't get to where he is without a clear vision of what he wants . Having known & worked with him for many years I don't think he would be someone that would fall under the category of confused. At the very least the analysts don't think so..

No need to get defensive mate - just sayin' it as it is.

I have had some experience working with this tailor and know through personal experience (& that of others) what works and what does not when it comes to communicating with her. I know her limitations fairly well and would be happy to share if asked - but of course, one can always go about things his own way.

No further comments on this matter anyways. NEXT!

Sorry to belittle the point & appearing defensive ( which I am not ) but I agree with Kotmj on this. It is clearly not for you to raise the issues ( unless you have some equity in the place ). These should come from your tailor.

Most of us, irregardless of whether we have procured bespoke services here or abroad are not experts in the trade.

It is therefore incumbent on the tailor to provide guidance ( preferably in a diplomatic manner ) whether something requested for can or cannot be done as well as its ensuing consequences.

If the client requests for a work suit in a Zegna 15 mil mil fabric , the tailor , assuming she is interested in the long term relationship with the client might wish to caution the client that the fabric is best suited for occasional wear & may fray much quicker than a lesser fabric.

I don't think he is aware of your long relationship & experience with your tailor but I think he needs to establish that relationship himself provided your tailor is frank & honest with him on his capabilities or limitations , as the case may be. I suspect he is testing out the waters as this is his first commission for a jacket with your mutual tailor.

One of the main reasons why I joined this forum is to source for a local tailor having recently relocated here. The feedback from Kotmj & others have contributed greatly to my understanding of some of the local KL Tailors . I was also pleasantly surprised at their ability & painfully aware of their limitations . Some of their feedback will assist others in better instructing the tailors & hopefully raise the standards of bespoke here.

I think you'll agree that one fairly common trait of tailors in Asia is that tailors don't know how to say no, and tend to take on requests that they don't fully understand.. Which is why it is especially helpful, as you mentioned, to share experiences about the limitations of our tailors in the region.

Of course, if you (or your friend for that matter) did not find my remarks helpful in any way, feel free to ignore them.

BTW, I did not find the comment about me having equity at the tailor very fair. Have I tried to hard sell anything?

My latest pair of Attolinis
[attachmentid=1749966]

Your small town obviously offers little by way of entertainment.

Entertainment? This would be the truest form of self expression. Far better than those lapels padded with beige silk.

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Added on August 27, 2010, 3:01 pmShould I ask for a clean back with no drape if my shoulder blades are very prominent?

This post has been edited by bloke1: Aug 27 2010, 03:01 PM

Waow, did you pick stitch that yourself? Nice job if so. For a moment I thought the seams were sewn by hand ala Ambrosi's 'golden' trousers.

Very kind words, gshen. They are indeed my own stitches.

[attachmentid=1750626]

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Added on August 27, 2010, 6:48 pm

This picture sparked an idea.

This post has been edited by bloke1: Aug 27 2010, 06:48 PM

Please pardon my ignorance, but I don't see anything out of the ordinary?

Cheenoo, go stalk Foo more.

I sewed buttons back-to-back today to make my swappable buttons for the DB. It took me 3 hours. I went to a haberdasher to buy black thick polyester thread. I used these for the dark navy buttons but for the gilt buttons I used white Guetermann button thread.

The difference in quality was startling. The local thick polyester threads were very "wooly", i.e. there were lots of stray fibers. The Guetermann, in contrast, was smooth and clean, with no wooliness. It was also much firmer.

Since, oh, a bunch of Alumos are coming my way, I am now very keen on securing some superfine Guetermanns and getting my mystery shirtmaker to make nearly invisible stitches. Most poly threads used for shirts are #100 thickness, but Guetermann has a #220 (half the thickness) specially for "fine fabrics" and "high-density stitches".

Another common problem I want to solve is seam pucker. Happens to everybody's shirts, and Guetermann has a publication on how to solve this problem.

 Allgemein__Downloaddata__Naht100_templateId_render.pdf ( 570.13k ) Number of downloads: 19

Your response is very telling .

1. It is a fallacy to generalize & group all Asian Tailors under the same category. If you have been following this thread, Kotmj had fought hard to get his way with his tailor to the extent that he is now commissioning a fully canvassed non fused suit !!. Similarly the reputable Hong Kong tailors ( WW Chan ) would risk their reputation to take on commissions that do not accurately reflect their clients intent.

I think your mutual tailor will be in for a rude awakening if the jacket my friend is commissioning does not reflect the understanding he had arrived at with your mutual tailor . Either there would be numerous fittings & re-cutting until consensus is arrived at or he may ask me to post his remarks with supporting pictures to express his unhappiness with the end product. If any of his request are beyond your mutual tailor's capability, it is best that this be raised at the onset & expectations set early.

2. Most of us are open to constructive feedback. However your comments do not seem to be substantiated apart from implying that my friend is confused & you did not like his Brioni suit. Given the fact that you claim to have have experience in interacting with your mutual tailor, perhaps it would be useful for you to list down in detail how you would have instructed your mutual tailor had you been in his place. The other forumers ( both here & on SF ) have provided detailed feedback on their interactions with their respective tailors which serves as a useful guide on how to engage with the said tailors.

3. Were you fully privy to the entire discussion between the tailor & my friend? Did you have an opportunity to peruse the checklist compiled by him? Do you know what his intended use of the commission in question?

4. Would you care to share your other experiences in instructing other tailors apart from Iris? Any interaction with the big boys in HK? ( WW Chan, etc ) What about the Row ? Or any experience with the big designer names or artisans in Italy?

5. By your own admission you spend an inordinate amount of time at Iris. The feedback you have given here ( as well as SF & London Lounge ) seems to support the assertion that you either have a vested interest in your mutual tailor or have frequent commissions as part of your lifestyle or work requirements.

In the meantime we shall see the outcome of my friend's commission before pre maturely declaring it as a disaster

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Added on August 28, 2010, 12:10 amFeatures found in Tom Ford & Attolini's Trousers. Very fine finishing indeed.

This post has been edited by beau: Aug 28 2010, 12:10 AM

You obviously love this particular friend of yours very much beau, but I do not see why you are protecting him so militantly. Gshen's remarks were just his honest superficial observation, and did not imply any deep knowledge of your friend to make his observations an accurate reflection of his bespeaking skills.

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Added on August 28, 2010, 12:29 amThere is one colour which I think is too little appreciated for summer shirting: mint green. It makes you look as fresh as a cucumber.

This post has been edited by kotmj: Aug 28 2010, 12:29 AM

It takes about 100m of thread to make a shirt:

 NOP__Downloaddata__Herrenhemd_templateId_render.pdf ( 32.85k ) Number of downloads: 14

+100

Oh c'mon. I think things are getting out of hand. This is my last response and if you feel the need to, please take it to PMs.

What? I said fairly common in a general context, and I think it is a fair comment. Anyway, I also fought hard with my tailor years ago, when she was used to cutting suits for an older set of customers. Kotmj (with ALT) and probably the first generation Chan customers asking for a soft coat likely spent lots of blood & sweat paving the way for what we know they are 'good at' now. I don't see your point, srsly.

My comments were directed at the fact that his instructions were not 100% clear. You can read back on one of my earlier posts about his request for a high gorge, and example of a low gorge. This is an objective remark BTW. It would be wise for any customer, not just him, to have a clear (or clearer) idea of what you want. It would be hard to push the blame to the tailor when the product is unsatisfactory if instructions weren't clear. No matter how experienced someone is with bespoke, I'm sure you'll agree that there are times when we screw up and forget to communicate a request. No one is infallible.

TBH, if you want to know, I have no interest now in whether or not you both are happy with his suit or the tailor. If you feel the need to post a negative review, feel free to do so. Maybe that will speed up my commissions too. I hope my previous comments helped, but I see no point in any further comments about the matter..

Eh? I did try to substantiate the fact that his instructions were not clear. Confused is a poor and rather negative description, so for that I apologize. BTW, you also implied that his Brioni suit was not your favourite.

I don't see how I am obliged to list down such a 'formula', though. There is no guaranteed formula for a successful bespoke attempt or relationship, and the last thing I want is to be held for providing a 'wrong formula'.

The shop isn't particularly big, and everybody's conversations can be heard. Also, he speaks English, and the tailor isn't very proficient in the language, so I often act as a translator when she directs questions to me. She is also not very familiar with technical terms in English and I help translate based on what I figured in my past experience.

No, I do not know the intended use, nor did he communicate it. Is it my job to find out? /shrugs

How is this relevant to our conversation? I did not claim to possess any knowledge at all outside this tiny realm. If you are trying to paint me as a small timer, I will readily admit as I have in the past, that I am indeed small time.

I have also established on SF that I am a personal friend of the tailor's daughter, and over the years have become close friends with my tailors. They are a very nice couple and I sometimes drop by to idle chat when I happen to be in Orchard Rd.

If you need to know, I do not get paid commissions, and am taking my personal time to hold the cloth sale on SF for them for f r e e . I have also openly criticized their shirts for not being particularly good value and recommended other tailors in HKG as alternatives.

Anyway, by that same token, would you suspect whnay and Mafoofan for having vested interests in Rubinacci? Vox in Steed? kotmj in ALT?

Did I declare it a disaster? I wish him good luck with his commission anyway, but will be sure to stay out of his affairs on visits in the future since it seems that my presence is unwelcome.

There's great friendship but nothing bordering on love.

I have known him through university & remained friends over the years despite having been colleagues, collaborators & competitors in the professional sense. It seems that the remarks about him were uncharacteristic.

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Added on August 28, 2010, 10:16 amGshen,

Thanks for this detailed feedback. The root cause of the issue at hand is clear:-

1. He informed me that he wanted a jacket which would be used in travel around the region in warmer climates. The jacket has to have numerous pockets to carry the mobile devices that seems to be a growing part of today's life & yet adopt to situations where business casual is called for or allow him to put on a tie & look respectable in a club or restaurant with more stringent dress code. Part of his intent was communicated to your mutual tailor although the second part about the business casual use was not.

2. I understand that the swatch material booklet was not available at that material time. He prefers lighter fabrics in the 10 to 11 oz range -I have recommended him the W Bill linens & also the Harrisions both of which are good alternatives to the H & S linens .

3. He was trying to garner some understanding of your mutual tailor's capability & seems to be comfortable with their previous dealings where she ( I thought it was a he ) has been reasonably forthright about his choice of options. The problem lies in his expectation of "soft" . He was expecting "Italian Soft" when "British Soft" would probably be more appropriate given the jacket's use. I think he has come to this realization after the recent interaction with your mutual tailor .

4. There appears to be some confusion over the "gorge" . What he wants is a high gorge but cut either in the same style as the Armani or the Brioni .I don't think he meant that the gorge position would be the same as these two jackets that was used as references. As far as cut of the Brioni is concerned his remarks are quoted verbatim:
"That gentleman never had to endure long meetings where one is expected to be fully suited. Being well tailored is one thing but comfort super cedes close fit in the final analysis" .

5. He anticipated the potential lack of comprehension which is why he used pictures to help illustrate his point. Based on the samples he's seen in the shop , he seems to be reasonably confident that your tailor will be able to deliver 80% of his requirements.

I think he needs to remember that he is not dealing with someone on the Row or Rome & with that in mind , I would proposed that he takes the following remedial action:-

1. Look at W Bill & Harrisons before deciding to go with the H & K Linens,
2. Provide greater detail to your mutual tailor on the use of the jacket so she acquires a better understanding of his needs
3. Clarify the issues regarding the gorge & jacket structure . Go thought all his requirements again to ensure that there is some consensus with your mutual tailor.

There seems to be culpability on all sides but this episode serves as a good reminder that we need to be clear when instructing our tailors & the tailor's first task is to ask the client what & how he plans to use the clothes commissioned & provide suggestions .

On my part I would not mention your negative remarks about him ( with the exception of the Brioni ) least you encounter him on a professional basis. I apologize for my blunt demeanor and hard talk - a habit picked up from attending reviews .

p.s. It is great to hear that your mutual tailor has a nice ambience much like a gentleman's club. It reminds me of the stories I've read about the late Douglas Hayward & his clients as well as my personal experiences with the smaller Italian tailors where a fitting is often accompanied with an offer of food or drinks thus adding to the congenial atmosphere.

This post has been edited by beau: Aug 28 2010, 10:16 AM

The one thing that would most increase the perception of comfort is sufficient upper back width. Office workers slouch a great deal, and the back needs to be wide enough to accommodate this. If you do not see blades of drape at the back of the armsyce, the jacket will not be perceived as a comfortable one. This is further compounded when the arms are expected to be resting on the table in front of you. One would actually need pleats at the back for this.

The next problem to solve is the mass of canvassing , shoulder and chest padding on the front of the jacket. It makes for a voluminous obstruction to the slouch posture. Remove the volume padding and substitute the haircloth with hymo. To further allow the chest are to be compressed, the canvas should be soft, and cut on the bias. The chest pad should also not extend all the way into the armscye, but instead end an inch or so from it.

A mass of pockets adds substantially to the insulating properties of the jacket. A far cooler solution is patch pockets.

Armholes should be high to reduce the likelihood of the jacket vertically displacing itself when one is seated.

The buttoning point should be high.

Trousers should be fishtail, because with such trousers the waistband loosely encompasses the waist, allowing for the inevitable circumference increase of the gut when seated. If fishtails cannot be considered, an elastic braided belt would be a good alternative.

The trousers should be cut on the easy side, with plenty of crotch allowance.

I would not go with linen for the uses you mentioned. My first choice would be high-percentage mohair, because it is always crisp, always business-appropriate, yet is very cool especially in combination with a quarter lining in ermazine. Wrinkles fall out faster than anything I've seen. Featherweight mohair (8 oz) has all the shape retaining capabilities of a much heavier wool, so the jacket is lighter to pack. (Do you really want to pack a 15 oz linen?) Also worth considering are tropical wools from the Italians and of course fresco, but these do not have the light weight and drape properties of high-percentage mohair.

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Added on August 28, 2010, 2:36 pmYet another feature that makes for a cool jacket is the single button silhouette with very open quarters. This kind of silhouette is one step away from wearing the jacket unbuttoned.

This post has been edited by kotmj: Aug 28 2010, 02:36 PM