Mmmmm.... care to share his proposal? Just curious....

:S I forward to you lah.

Yeah, k. Forward to me too. =D

Hmmm.... okay

me too! lol

An interesting shoutcast to listen to:

BASH 87: Crushing Competitive CoD

This post has been edited by t3quila: Dec 4 2008, 09:41 PM

SKOTH4 was initially closed because of insufficient teams, but I got it reopened and got a total of 24+ teams to join. It got closed because Rapture was unable to get servers for SKOTH, due to the incompetency of the nevertheless eager admin. Rapture will always favour DOTA over CoD4, because DOTA is DOTA and has worldwide coverage, is played by almost every teen in Singapore () and is easy as heck to organize and play in. Rapture being a profit-motivated organization simply chose the easy route instead of being the community leader it should be.

And, of course we need to get teams from other countries in SKOTH, have you not noticed SKOTH is an asian-wide tournament for both DOTA and CoD4? But at the end of the day, yes, we only have a handful of CoD4 teams, but then again, what is our country's population compared to yours?

And regardings scrims in our server, at last count, ESP, RvG, SwL, FsN, Gr4\/, FFF, RnF, JEDI, Bf.Nut, UO, sC, <3M, CEBU, Aztig, -aa-, XcN, bc, empnext, eF, eFox, S!GA have all played in our mix scrims. More then half play REGULARLY on our server.


Ever heard of Singapore Sword in the now-defunct CGS?

Or Fnatic's XcN dota division


DotA grew because first of its hardcore fan-base, extremely low system requirements, easily pirated game played online, not much lag issues playing online and yes, its multiple creators attention to the game. Only in the last year+ has Blizzard given support to the DotA, before then, it was ignored, wasn't even on the "Official WC3 Mods" list in blizard website.


heehee to the bolded part and lol @ protective community, and werent you paid to marshal?


Point me to a tournament in europe or america in the last 3-4 months which has used pam4 please.

Oh, and YOUR pam4 and THEIR pam4 is very different, their pam4 ruleset is basically promod with some differences

This post has been edited by SnapperJR: Dec 7 2008, 08:23 AM

Paid indeed. 3 months late and peas.

If i was there for the pay, i wouldnt have taken it up. 5 bucks an hour i'd rather work as a waiter.

Anyhow, the MOD doesnt matter, because now, there are 3 communities, if you hadn't noticed. 1. PAM, 2. Promod, 3. DAMN:MW.

1. PAM's been replaced with a new modder, bulletworm, while its original modder is working on CoDTv. (CsTV for COD, or so it seems)
2. Promod's modder, raf1 has left COD4's scene to focus more on CoD5 leaving promod to its own. Despite having a final release, we may see the communities in EU/NA drift from promod to DAMN:MW.
3. Because of this Team Dignitas Manager "Morg" joins up with DAMN:MW's creator to further his own version of a competitive mod. Because it came out so late, most EU/NA players are still stuck between the two.

The only real way to solve this issue is to approach them directly, if they cannot put the effort of pushing their mod for a more prominent event which is recognized worldwide, such as WCG or WGT this situation will continue and escalate till it kills COD4. Their local/regional e-sports regiments are still not enough to keep them standing. As much as we would like to beat them at their game, it will be impossible until they figure out what they want over there. And im not talking about it being a side events. If they can push for it being a major event or a grand final, we as the SEA community can easily band our resources together to attempt to be a part of that, regardless of which mod is chosen. Organizers will mostly be happy they have a standard after that anyway.

Imagine having to change your gameplay everytime some moron decides say "im leaving cod4 to mod cod5, kthxbai" and his "partner" joins some other modder to make "pokemonmod" which he brings his followers like a flock of sheep over, thoroughly splitting the community again. Next thing you know, you'll have 10000 mods, with 100 competitions that have no links what so ever, Call of Duty 4 : Modders Warfare.

The main reason i somehow stick to pam is because it hasnt changed much. Yeah, we use a different ruleset, our own configs per say, but its not like we're not going to port over. If they can't keep their heads together, im not following their footsteps.

Anyway, CGS is dead. lol

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Added on December 7, 2008, 1:16 pmsigh, please go to wormsworld.net join the forum and see what PAM actually stands for before you make comments like that plx.
there is no YOUR pam and MY pam. Pam4 is a mod, not a ruleset. In order to be officially part of the PAM4 ruleset system, you need a league the size of a minimum of 24 teams with an active website up 24/7. If you have, you can apply to include your ruleset into the PAM4 system. PAM4 currently has more than 76 rulesets in total.

Promod was created to limit the amount of rulesets, having reduced the total number of rulesets down to 6 if im not mistaken out of the 56 originally in PAM4. While doing so, they combined the 56 rulesets taking out the best of each and finally coming up with solutions to implement as a competitive mod. That is why you'll see weapon changes and performance boosts in promod.

Both Promod and PAM4 goals are nearly the same, to create a unified mod for leagues/tournaments and competitive play where ever possible.

DAMN:MW was the first competitive mod ever created for COD4 but never really took off. DAMN initially had the same goals as the mods above, but its now taking a whole new direction with the help of Morg.

So who're you going to follow?

This post has been edited by crashtec: Dec 7 2008, 01:16 PM

abc, are u paid by someone to talk here?

1. bulletworm is PAM4's creator, garetjax was just PAM's original creator, so why are we discussing this when bulletworm made PAM4 in the first place, and recently came back to update PAM4 for the last time and make PAM5?
2. What's the point in this statement, at last point, PAM was totally dead without any support until bulletworm suddenly came back and it is unlikely there will be much more support since like raf1, bulletworm is making his version of PAM for cod5. I do agree there is a possibility that EU/NA may drift to DAMN:MW but thats not likely now, it's wayyyyy too bug-ridden and it needs some changes.
3. So what? At least there's support for a mod AND a ruleset. Like I stated previously, I'd still play DAMN:MW over your ruleset, because DAMN is very much more competitive, although the game dynamic is changed TOTALLY.

My point about YOUR and THEIR pam4 was basically the configs, many of your malaysian players seem confused by this point and think PAM4 is a ruleset per say, when like you say it's basically a mod.

Like I said in the other thread, I have the sincere belief that your ruleset shackles your players skill level, leaving them with little progress whatsoever, and with a community self-brainwashed into stating stuff like "ohhh promod is ezmod" when most of them have never even tried promod, as well as self-brainwashed into believing that their own ruleset is better, because this is what they've played from the start. I giggle like a little schoolgirl when I hear that. If it was so easy in ezmod, why can't you guys win in it?

I'm only here to state my opinion, and start educating people. I know I may sometimes come off as harsh, but you know what, thats the only thing that will attract enough attention so people will read, look at my Asian CoD4 Championship posting, not even 1 post of criticism or of support.

This post has been edited by SnapperJR: Dec 7 2008, 03:38 PM

To make it clear to everyone:

1. PAM 4, Promod and DAMN: MW are all mods.

2. PAM4 is not "the malaysian Ruleset"

3. PAM4 allows for certain weapons, perks to be banned, and add few other things like Team counter and what not.

4. "Malaysian ruleset" is just a set of config files which the current community has agreed to ban perks/guns, customize timers, and what not.

5. What we use for local tourney is PAM4 as the MOD, and then apply "Malaysian Rulset" config files to it to make all the bad things in the original COD4 go bye bye.


I hope everyone in knows the difference between PAM4 and "Malaysian Ruleset" now.

P.S: WGTMY, or ESPGL are all the same PAM4 mod, with "Malaysian Ruleset" configs, they are NOT new MODS.
There is stil the basic 3 mods now, PAM4, Promod, DAMN: MW

I want to make this very clear with you. I don't know about brainwashing, but whatever choice the malaysian community made, was their own. In the end, only a select few will be interested in going pro/porting over to new games/mods. The level of competition increases whenever these teams make a choice to improve further. That is why there are levels planned for such porting. From the amatuer to pro, it should be a step by step process. This way, COD4 as a whole still can maintain a community even though there are some amatuer teams and some pro teams. So long as they exist as one whole entity, it will be easier to get participants. The ruleset was created to promote the game locally, so long as the game exists in the background.

It is planned to be something like this : Malaysian Ruleset -> Regional Ruleset -> Most Popular International Ruleset. If the Regional Ruleset is the same as the most popular ruleset, then it will be chosen for higher level players.

This way, you'll have a steady number of participants but at different levels of tournaments. Weaker teams will not be as likely to leave the scene, while the stronger teams have a chance to improve with higher level tournaments/leagues. Why do you think we have an Amatuer League now? Do you think we're that short sighted?

I hope not, because it reflects on your own personality. You come to this forum throwing aggresive comments in a facade of "opinions" then justifying them later when you piss someone off?

It is estimated that in 6 months we would have a steady 16 Amatuer Teams and perhaps 8 Pro Teams. As time goes by, with continued effort, this number will slowly grow to the extent that participation will no longer be an issue, since there will always be entree level teams that will likely push forward into competitive play. These numbers are the optimum to continue without external participation. This way, teams can have a choice of scrim locally and internationally, rather than be forced to find teams to scrim with online.

You do not grasp the concept of community building, that is perhaps why you don't understand what im talking about. If you're here to teach, you should be eager to learn as well. I'm not saying i know everything, i admit i learned a lot when i was over in singapore but haven't you learned anything from our community? Instead of laughing and giggling like the girl you are, ever ask why our community still grows despite our "shitty" ruleset?

Thanks Nightkillr,

and brian, if you do intend to eventually grow into international ruleset why was this not announced earlier?

eh props to you since your so proud of your growing community, but I throw aggressive opinions? Perhaps you should look at my first post in this thread and to who I quoted to, if your members want to sit in there and spread lies to justify why the "malaysian" ruleset should stay, then I will always seek to clarify the truth. And, yeah, I'm the one being aggressive going around calling other people girls and putting words in other peoples mouth.

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Added on December 7, 2008, 8:18 pmActually, you know what, I'm bowing out from this argument, I've said my piece and Night has clarified a lot of what I wanted to say.

Any more of my arguing, and I only further entrench your mindset of malaysian ruleset vs promod and international ruleset and more people will resist it, just so they can argue with me.

I wish you luck for the future.


This post has been edited by SnapperJR: Dec 7 2008, 08:18 PM

They get information on a need-to-know basis. Too much information may just confuse them more. I've announced this many times throughout the year already anyway.

No one is spreading lies, they are merely defending their ideals, like what you're doing. This is barely even in the right thread for all of this crap.

Excuse me if i am interrupting this discussion but aren't we suppose to discussing about the plans for next year. So far for what i've read in the past 30 minutes for 2 and a 1/2 half pages is a very serious debate on mods, going international, bringing up the community etc etc. (good constructive and important topics mind you )

Yes i agree that all these are very VERY important topics that the CoD4 community should discuss address and debate it in a healthy way.
YES this is a forum and many of us are very passionate for the game we all love but PLEASE if we are to continue to discuss all these 'current issues' it will be FOREVER ongoing.

If ever anyone should discuss this topics (which i would encourage since this will help ANY SIDE OF THE STORY to raise their opinions and let others view their points) , can't we take it into PM's or open another forum topic so that anyone can debate whichever viewpoint they would want.

I assume everyone here is an healthy growing adult/young adult who should know the meaning of the word called "ETIQUETTE" so try not to let the ugly monster control what you are typing and always come up with constructive criticism.

passion mode OFF

Back on topic: Love the idea of 'stadiums' and going to other stadiums to play away. Its a bloody cool concept actually. Sounds like ESPGL V2.0 is in the making but with more running about weeeeeee.
However, i kinda concerned about the 7 weeks to complete 1 meet. I feel that it could be too long and draggy. How about we cut down the numbers of cybers?
There might be a few kinks too.
Firstly, this is an experimental tournament style that hasn't been tested yet. 2ndly, i think convincing cybers to do this concept will not be an easy task for the fellow negotiating it.
MY suggestion is the least we could do this time is to cut it to say 4-6 cybers, have a strong foundation of cybers where we can always rely and trust on. Nxt, once we have completed this, we can spread the circle even bigger and with a better credibility, other cybers would be more willing to join in this venture for the following year. What do you think peeps?

The world would be dull and boring if everyone shared the same viewpoint, thus the difference in opinion is what makes us human.


p.s. i was at awe to c almost every major 'player' in the cod4 community started to appear when i read this topic. Many things raised actually taught me more about the complexity of the gaming cycle and some in and outs of cod4. keep up the good work you big guys up there. small peeps like me will keep cheering on.

This post has been edited by amakor aka mama: Dec 8 2008, 02:49 AM

Hmm, the main reason why i proposed 8 is because there are currently about that number of cybercafe's that are sponsoring teams. So, i dont want to leave them out if they are interested.

ABC, I think there were quite a few things you weren't aware of about the planning for the future of the CoD4 community in Malaysia here. Yes, perhaps we were "stubborn" before, but clearly the time is ripe for change now. Switching over too early would have seen too many of the newer teams drop out and we would have been left with an ever-growing divide of skill between the top teams and newer teams. This way, when we do switch, it will be done with the consensus of the majority rather than a select few. While I don't believe in the purity of the democratic process, I do believe this is the only way to guarantee the participation of the majority in the future. Of course, if you had noticed, in this whole discussion, there weren't many posts defending our local ruleset. This doesn't mean that the community hates the local ruleset but rather is mature enough to notice the deficiencies there.

Mama, I think this debate was important enough not to be done through PMs. The community needs to know about the information revealed here. Yes, it's off topic, but important nonetheless. =) You are right about the both sides being passionate about what and why they believe. I suppose the mods will split the thread if they see fit.

And finally, yes, we desperately need some sort of global unifying mod and a ruleset. Not just for us, but for the CoD4 community all over the world to grow even further. I do believe this game still has quite a bit of undeveloped potential. =)

This post has been edited by Grr: Dec 8 2008, 02:17 PM

We'll have to see what CEVO and ESL come to at the end of December. Then we'll know where this is all heading.

I agree with the unifying ruleset and it doesn't matter WHAT is it. With sufficient numbers you could create a mod with bananas for knives and supersoakers for guns and you'd still have a playable mod. It IS kind of saddening that people who did not understand the working model behind what a lot of the leaders here were trying to do and fought against it. We were talking about it a few nights ago and came to the conclusion that we couldn't make the decision ourselves because there were too many factors involved. So, in a way the meeting on the 20th is to clear up everything in preparation for 2009.

And yes, sometimes, you have to hide information on a need to know basis. Reason? I've met enough people to know and read enough in this forum that people with only half the information will run off spouting their mouth thinking its the god absolute truth. I don't pretend to know any of the government policies of any of the neighbouring countries on Gaming (I'm Malaysian btw). I don't profess to know the general behaviour and I've kept from using blanket statements unless they happen to be true (e.g Every Malaysian grew up surrounded by piracy in one form or the other.) I mean seriously, i'm sure you've told part of a story to a friend and your friend runs off to tell everyone that it is the gospel truth. Better not to mention anything at all and let the ones who are interested in doing, do and those who just want to talk, talk.

Cheers
Sanction

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Added on December 8, 2008, 9:48 pmWait, i just realised. Did Snapper just call us liars? This is REALLY good for international relations.

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Added on December 8, 2008, 9:51 pmI also just realised he bowed out of the conversation just as he realised he couldn't justify any of his comments because they weren't thought through in the first place. And don't use that, I'm leaving now because i'm more mature than you line. It's old. If you can't justify your words except with not understanding how something works, don't pretend to know what others are thinking. None of us said our way was the right way. But you're assuming we are, and you are SAYING that you're smarter better faster. So please Snapper, please don't come in here, sling insults, and think you're all the better because of it. You don't sound harsh. In fact you just sound like a guy who doesn't have all his facts who wants to come in and seem like he knows what he's talking about. I don't know you personally, but your online image really sucks right now. =) Oh wait, you probably don't care because you're on the other side of a screen.

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 8 2008, 09:54 PM

LOL.