thanks but no thanks,.

i still like my old Concertos .... they sounded really nice with the Exposure XX, but when powered by the Krell 300i, even nicer! But yeah, the speakers then became the limiting factor and thats how the story goes.

But they're stilll being used elsewhere in the home.
Still happily making sounds.

yeah but the electa amator's bass extension is still somewhat limited.
Physics is physics .... can't expect the low frequencies to come out of something thats still a "bookshelf" size.

I think the Stereophile reviewer Ken Kessler once even drove a pair of Extrema's using the Krell 300i. That would be pretty much the limit of the 300i already for "Acceptable sound quality".

yah .... but not the car-stereo kind of one-note midbass BOOP BOOP BOOP.

I really appreciate those really deep 20~30Hz Bloomy basses that should come only from the original source recording.

hahaha!

Problem is, the the most unforgiving musical instruments like church organs and grand pianos will need a system that can reproduce at least some representation of these instruments' low harmonics for a really good hi-fi quality reproduction.

the thing is , Enya's music actually has alot of sub-sonic notes, and only the deepest systems that are capable to go down to 20Hz would fully reveal the whole spectrum of Enya music.

For really true hi-fi systems that go so low, we're talking about RM80K systems at least. Anything less and the bass would either be dance club bebops or car-stereo type of artificial bass booms, or you just won't get the proper bass extensions, and then its up to the speaker design to gently rolloff the low frequencies. There is a cheap way to get this kind of bass extension by using an AV sub-woofer to do the low-jobs, but its really really hard to get a sub to properly harmonise with a good pair of stereo loudspeakers.

seems like with the Krell 400xi, now the front-end source devices could use some upgrade

If you can get a CD player or DAC that can output balanced signals (XLR connectors) to the Krell, its a whole new level of experience again. Krell has always emphasised and preferred balanced connections over single-ended (RCA) connections.

nice picts ...

that clock thingy... is that the squeeze box ?

Also recommend you get some vibrapods or isonode rubber feet for the Krell. It makes a diff to the sound too.

I noticed the vibrapods u have underneath the CD player already right ?

This post has been edited by mugenfoo: Oct 3 2008, 11:47 AM

Hmmm... actually its better u start to explore a CD transport, and a DAC of your choice. Especially a DAC that has true-balanced (XLR) outputs.


any anti-vibration pods for the Krell would do just fine, as long as its within the pods' weight limit. I was using Audio Alchemy Isopucs until my cousin (who is a Naim freak) gave me a set of vintage MonsterCable footers to use.

Bass dynamics and resolution improved with the better isolation feet.

If you're thinking of a CD transport and DAC, remember to also pamper them on isolation stuff too. Perhaps now is a good chance to get a SACD capable front-end setup.

But one thing, the Krell is capable of so much better bass resolution that the Concertinos can reproduce. Its really the limiting factor of the setup now IMO. If convenient, see if u can loan a pair of floorstanders and hard-to-drive-speakers or similar, and benchmark between your old Amp and the Krell, then you'll get what I'm trying to say here.

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Added on October 4, 2008, 1:51 amPoison poison... muahahahahahahahahaha


This post has been edited by mugenfoo: Oct 4 2008, 01:51 AM

... so now we got "2 or 3" styles of cooking for auronthas' system

But isn't this part of the fun of forums ?

We offer all the different herbs and spices .. but alas, its the owner himself that makes the final call what to buy, what to keep, what to upgrade , etc !

keep the ball rollin' !

This post has been edited by mugenfoo: Oct 4 2008, 01:02 PM

high five !!

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Added on October 4, 2008, 1:17 pmactually, on the issue of PRaT, it would be the goal of home audio Nirvana that a system would be able to do ALL the above.... deep bass, incredible clarity, dynamics, all the PRaT , the whole shebang. That's when really top dollar systems come in.

But don't forget the placement & listening room too, which is actually the single MOST IMPORTANT factor but sadly also the most ignored and denied thing in hi-fi.
One must remember, a RM 50,000 budget spent on systems and room acoustics would blow the socks off a RM200,000 system placed in a shit and crappy enviro anytime.

This post has been edited by mugenfoo: Oct 4 2008, 01:18 PM

i'd reckon the McIntosh would sound "sweeter" and smoother highs, but the Krell would give the dynamics and slam that is what Krells are famous for.

So it totally depends on what kinda sound you want.

Since Harbeths are quite neutral but can be abit clinical at times, a Krell might overly sterilise the whole sonic presentation. Of course this would be good if you're into stuff like Movern Rock, Alternative, and maybe some fushion jazz. But it would be a boo boo for classical and soft and easy listening stuff.

But if you're totally into full throttle power dynamics, go for the Krell.

i use a Theta transport. Then fed into a Wadia DAC thats got both single ended and balanced outputs, very useful when I want to do simultaneous comparisons... but the single-ended always loses to the XLR in all occasions, so i don't bother anymore.

This post has been edited by mugenfoo: Oct 5 2008, 12:13 PM

Cremona not a very common model .. i have have only seen it once or twice .. if not mistaken...

Stands are CRUCIAL for SF speakers to sound their best...

Their design philosophy is that every part of the speaker (and for some models, stands included) works in harmony to give "emotion" to the reproduced sound.

Thats why SF speakers may not be the most accurate or neutral sounding or best spec'ed speakers (unlike LS3/5A's for example) but they are one of the most MUSICAL and involving speakers money can buy.

actually, why not give this software a try ... it can do computer simulation to optimise the speaker placements, within reasonable constraints.

Its not perfect, but gives a very good basis for speaker positioning to get best tonal balance and freq response within the ballpark areas of your preferred initial placements for soundstaging.

http://www.cara.de

Huh????

whats the balanced or unbalanced inputs got to do with the Remote ?

The krell remote can select B1, S1, S2 ... Tape as the input source, and can control volume and L/R balance, and turn-on or standby.


I think you got the "signal Left-Right Balance" confused with "Balanced or UN-Balanced input".


Just to re-iterate for the sake of Clarity.. un-balanced inputs are the "RCA" style connectors.




Regardless of whether you are using "un-balanced input" or "balanced input", the Left/Right Balance can only be done via the remote.

This post has been edited by mugenfoo: Oct 12 2008, 11:39 PM

a true high-current amp (like a Krell ) should be like:
100W into 8 Ohm,
200W into 4 Ohm,
400W into 2 Ohm.


Ohm's law: V = I x R

V is voltage, i is current, R is resistance (aka impedance in a simplistic view)

Power (P)= V x I
which can also be expressed as:
P = V^2 / R or
P = I^2 x R

So for high current capable amps, in which if the amp is able to maintain the voltage V ( by delivering a variable current "I") across a varying impedance (in this case, "R") which is what when driving loudspeaker coils, the relationship between power to impedance is inversely proportional ( 1/R). Hence if R halves, the POWER should double up.

In the other expression of I^2 x R , this explains what happens if the amp's current delivery is choked and cannot deliver more juice (the "I" is constant and max'ed out) . If the impedance R is halved, so is the power delivery.

This post has been edited by mugenfoo: Oct 14 2008, 12:13 AM

but an Ongaku would not drive a majority of loudspeakers properly either. Its limited to driving high efficiency horn (horny? hahahaha) speakers and the like... and maybe Cerwin-Vegas ...

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Added on October 14, 2008, 5:04 pmthe KSA-100 definitely won't pump constant watt into different ohm, assuming that there's no change in the input signal gain.


In fact, no decently built amp will pump constant watt into a diff ohm. No matter how "powerful" or how "weak" is its current capabilities.



This post has been edited by mugenfoo: Oct 14 2008, 05:04 PM

The more "high current" delivery delivery capability of the amp, the more likely it will be more accurate sounding than the weak and puny amps. So the above statement is abit of a misnomer.

Amplification is all about power delivery, and in audio, what turns electrical signals into sound (ie, the juice that creates the magnetic fields that in turn makes the good vibes) is CURRENT.

Although current delivery is not the only factor , but it is perhaps the main and most significant factor in determining the quality of an audio amp. This is the most fundamental part: Power amplification and delivery.

Take an example of all the great amplifier designs:
Naims go for plain vanilla push-pull quasi complementary circuits, but over-emphasise on power supply capability, for current delivery for their world famous signature PRaT sound.

Exposures proudly proclaim their design as "Regulated Amps", also for current delivery.

Mission/Cyrus shoebox amps use military grade components for robustness and high current delivery.

Krells and Gryphons, oh-la-la... its all about the AMPs baby.


After all, it is rarely the fault of the source or DAC components for being lazy or slow or boring or punchy or dynamic sounding. Its usually the amp and the speakers instead, in which the intrinsic essence that binds the amp/speaker relationship is the electrical current.

This post has been edited by mugenfoo: Oct 15 2008, 05:12 PM

martin colloms, john atkinson, JG Holt, R Harley, Harry Pearson, etc etc etc .. i'd take their articles with a big big bag of salt.

No doubt their articles make interesting reading as well... but must go with salt!

Furthermore ... how does one attach a "Score" to a particular equipment ?

How would anyone "score" a Concertino vs a LS3/5a for example ? Score something as subjective as sound, this is really a new level of delusion.

If anyone is going to buy into this kind of ideas, good luck. Are you owning equipment for your own sake and enjoyment or for the reviewer or equipment seller's sake ?

To borrow a quote from Jabba the Hutt :"You weak-minded fool! He's using an old Jedi mind trick!"