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Hi-Fi Sonus Faber, The artisan of sound

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mugenfoo
post May 31 2008, 05:49 PM

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Grandspy:

Couple of years back with the Concerto (no Domus) was first launched, it received raved reviews from Stereophile with paired with the KAV-300i.

In the interest of Hi-Fi curiosity, maybe can arrange for your Domuses (or Domii ...) to have a go with the KAV-300i (i've got one) and see hows the sound like if you haven't explored already. smile.gif

BTW, my Concertos (1st Gen batch ) are still going strong after all these years (since 1997 i think).


Added on May 31, 2008, 5:53 pmSometimes also depends on the DAC punya receiver interface and/or the transport punya transmitter interface. The myriad combination of these factors can be misleading and make people think one particular medium is better than the other.



QUOTE(kkthen @ May 30 2008, 05:40 PM)
I am not sure Coaxial or toslink  which one is better. This  is much  depend your Transport & DAC combination. But normally good Coaxial will be  more expensive than good toslink.  The toslink is colourless & neutral. Coaxial sound like analogue cable, different brand got different color & characteristic like warm, cool, neutral.

If u want to use toslink you must use glass toslink. Glass toslink got 3x the bandwidth of plastic  toslink for expanded resolution and reduced jitter. This the reason why some say coaxial better than toslink. Because plastic toslink not enough bandwidth for audio data transmission. 

Length of digital cable is also very important. I got DH labs D75 coaxial in 1m & 1.5m each one.
1.5m length will sound more better 1m length. After i do some research, I found 1.2m length is optimum length digital cable. More than 1.2m will not much different. Less than 1.2m  will be more jitter. DH labs d75 is good budget coaxial cable, 1.5m is rm160 ( default come with two canary plug). But please don't terminated with canary coaxial plug, sound terrible. I change the plug to cheap audioquest coaxial plug sound much better.

I got 4 different digital cable.

a)1.5m  Dh labs d75 coaxial with audioquest plug- Musical, Good imaging, Thick vocal, slightly warm, but not very detail.

b)1.5m  acoustic zen silver bytes RM950- neutral, colorless, sweet high, more detail, soft bass.

c) 2m Ebay Glass toslink  RM125- Neutral, colorless, high extension not as good as sliver byte. but vocal thicker , Bass better than silver bytes. Detail as good as silver bytes.

d)1.5m stereovox xv2  rm850- Neutral, colorless, most detail, dynamic, good imaging, transparent, vocal not as thick as d75. Bass not as full  as d75 but more detail.

In my system, stereovox is the best, second is Glass toslink, third is acoustic zen.

Cost/performance Glass toslink is best in my system.
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This post has been edited by mugenfoo: May 31 2008, 05:53 PM
mugenfoo
post Jun 1 2008, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(grandspy @ Jun 1 2008, 12:26 AM)
Nice Pics PcWork!!
Nice setup!!! How effective is the jitter remover?
That's what I thought... KAV-300i could be the perfect match for the SF. BTW, mine are not the newer model of Domus(es?) but the earlier Concertos.. probably the same as yours?? Yes, I would like that very much... to have a listen to the 300i driving a pair of Concertos. I've listened to a 400xi paired with Concertos but not a 300i.  Hey, can I put your name up there as the owner of Concertos?
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yea sure no prob.

I am also using a Monarchy DIP ( the very 1st Gen also) and its now doing a wonderful re-streaming the output of my Apple Airport Express' S/PDIF output. Without the DIP, the Airport's stream makes the sound really rough and edgy. And this ain't serious listening but "convenience" listening to the stuff in my iTunes library. The DIP is totally awesome despite being 10+years old. Also great for converting Toslink to Co-ax or AES/EBU interface, if you wanna try different sounds.

Now the newer model DIPs should be even better owing to improvements in digital timing accuracy from higher grade clock chips/Crystals.
For serious listening, I got a Theta Jade transport (the one that pioneered the built-in buffer memory to reduce jitter just like Theta's Jitter-Jail standalone) , Wadia 12 DAC, then Mr. Krell, then Apogee Slant-6 hybrids. All XLO Signature-series AES/EBU (balanced) links for digital and analog, then bi-wired to the Apogees.

All in a purpose built room with Robert Harley's top choice dimensions of 10-14-19.

Before the Krell, I was driving the Concerto with an Exposure XX. Very smooth, but not quite enough power and the Concertos are abit power hungry.

Incidentally, both the Concertos and the Apogee are using the same 6inch VIFA woofer driver.

This post has been edited by mugenfoo: Sep 25 2010, 01:47 AM
mugenfoo
post Jun 3 2008, 11:38 PM

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Yeah i use "better" power chords too...

Using XLO Reference-II power chords for Amp, DAC and CD Transport.

Also using the 1st Gen XLO reference power chord for the DIP to "help" the Apple Airport Express out abit.

But my "home made" power chord from the wall outlet to the power block is wired with VandenHul CS-6 (if i remember correctly) stiff like anything... but gives very good & fast dynamics. Then only the XLO power chords tap off this power block.


QUOTE(kkthen @ Jun 2 2008, 05:42 PM)
Theta jade- wadia 12- Krell- Apogee Slant-6 hybrid

your system is high end. drool.gif 
I also like xlo sound, neutral, clean & dynamic. But I am using low range xlo interconnect only.  sweat.gif
I have no idea how good the signature series. How about power cord? which power cord for theta jade transport? Do you using any power conditioner for your system?
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mugenfoo
post Jun 3 2008, 11:52 PM

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Basically its a room of dimensions 10 feet by 14 feet by 19 feet or scaled down with the same proportion.
This would give the best spread of "eigentones" or standing-wave distribution for a rectangular room.

Any "normal" household room (unless its a fully damped and super dead sounding recording studio or similar) would have standing waves due to parallel walls and other geometrical factors. The idea is to try to spread these standing wave frequencies evenly thoroughout the audio band, then they may be more easily corrected/treated with stuff like Roomtunes ™ , bass traps, Helmholtz resonators, RPG™ products, big wads of padding, chicken-egg carton trays, etc etc etc... and yes ... even with a small round piece of wood called "Shun Mook" that some people swear by it. (Please don't ask me about "Shun Mook" but Google it up, have a listen if possible, then form your own opinion about it wink.gif )

Tuning the listening room is perhaps the hardest part of hi-fi and the part that most people tend to overlook.

Basically, I would go for a room dimensions thats got just the right amount of liveness, and ideally flat freq response and no peaks or suck-outs in the audible range. Of course, speaker placement and listening position are also part of this equation.

Then there's stuff like the mathematical "golden ratio" ( something advocated by Cardas & gang) and the string of Fibonacci number sequences and how they apply it to hi-fi such that resonances won't built up etc etc etc...

Anyway, people can do (and have done) a PhD out of this whole topic alone; so if anyone is interested to know more... Google is your best friend.

Its from RH's book, the "complete guide to high-end audio" now in its 3rd or 4th edition already i think.


QUOTE(grandspy @ Jun 2 2008, 08:19 PM)
Robert Harley's top choice dimensions of 10-14-19. Tell me more??
That's one serious stuff you've got there mugenfoo...
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mugenfoo
post Jun 4 2008, 12:02 AM

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Also got a friend with a pair of 1st Gen SF Concertinos (non-Domus) driven by Musical Fidelity X1 amp and Micromega minium CD Player.

Extremely musical for a "slightly classy" entry-level system.


One thing about Sonuses is that the stands are particularly important. That makes the diff between a pair of good sounding SFs and great sounding SFs.

Take for example the Guinaeri (dunno how to spell it properly anymore) if anyone recalls; the stands are an integral part of the whole speaker design. Concrete base, some metal (not sure, don't remember!) rigid column... and carefully tensioned (nylon / cotton?) strings from the top baseplate to the bottom concrete base.

And the SF Extrema ... thats my first time seeing a passive speaker with a heatsink at the rear !!

mugenfoo
post Jun 4 2008, 09:13 AM

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my comment ? "trust your ears" smile.gif

mugenfoo
post Jun 4 2008, 03:21 PM

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Well, I had this one pair of stands, 24" also, to use with the Concertos .. they were locally made, but made for the Concertos coz it had two holes in the base-plate so that u can screw the concertos securely to the plate.

With the stands filled and screwed-on, the sounds is much better than having the SF just sit on them with nothing else.

Basically, a good pair of stands that are rigid, solid and preferable can accommodate the SF's bottom screw ports ... you'll have a great combo !

As with most of SF's design philosophy and the way they interlock the solid wood blocks and internally brace them , this makes the speaker cabinets really solid and inert to improve the woofer accuracy. So anything along the same lines would be good.


mugenfoo
post Jun 12 2008, 01:08 AM

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Anyone here who's come across a pair of vintage SF Electa or Electa-Amator ?


mugenfoo
post Jun 20 2008, 10:17 PM

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QUOTE(grandspy @ Jun 17 2008, 06:48 PM)
Same here... next year would be a good year to buy an amp  smile.gif
Hmm... I beg to differ. You should spend your money on cables after you get all your system in place, not before. The cables should suit the system, not the other way around.
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agree... cables make a big diff in the sound overall !

Remember, in hi-fi as in life ... a chain is only as strong as its weakest link ... smile.gif

mugenfoo
post Jun 23 2008, 12:15 AM

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To all Sonus Fans ....

i stumbled across a pair of lovely Guinarei's .... complete with the ori stands (the one with strings) ....

Anyone keen to go look-see look-see it ? haha

mugenfoo
post Jun 23 2008, 02:00 AM

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QUOTE(grandspy @ Jun 23 2008, 12:45 AM)
The Guarneri? Used ones? The name itself makes my knees tremble. And I dare not ask how much.
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hahaha.. RM13K, old stock clearance. i doubt if its made in China...
mugenfoo
post Jun 24 2008, 10:33 PM

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hmmm... RM13k .... so how .. any takers? smile.gif

Then can eat porridge for the next 6 months...

mugenfoo
post Jun 24 2008, 10:47 PM

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err.. no R , quite an old unit .. a few years old liao.
All these "R" stuffs don't quite work for me in Hi-Fi ... That one only for car. tongue.gif

hahahahahahaha


This post has been edited by mugenfoo: Jun 24 2008, 10:49 PM
mugenfoo
post Jul 12 2008, 12:27 AM

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QUOTE(wkfoong @ Jul 11 2008, 12:19 AM)
It may be food for thought that Krell is often used by Sonus Faber at their factory when they design their speakers. Sonus faber's founder, Franco Serblin and Krell's founder, Dan D'Agostino, are great friends, hence the synergy.

http://hifi4sale.blogspot.com/2008/03/krel...aber-domus.html

Sonus Faber Stradivaris were also designed using Krell power amps. Check out Ken Kessler's review of the Stradivari and SF factory visit in Hi-Fi News April 2004. here at Absolute Sounds' website (UK distributor for Krell & Sonus Faber)

smile.gif

Added on July 11, 2008, 12:46 amI have a Krell KAV-400xi on (not on standby, but actually on) 24 hours a day, most of the day without aircon. Yes, it runs quite warm, but it's great sounding.

John Atkinson's test is actually running 67W continuously at 8 ohms. In any case, at that kind of power levels, you have to be listening at really, really deafening/high levels and using very inefficient speakers (85DB/W/m or lower) with low impedance. In the real-world, you should be having no issues and wonderful sound instead, as what Wes Phillips discovered.

Full review here: http://stereophile.com/integratedamps/205krell/

BTW, the KAV-400xi is a good match with the SF Concerto Domus and Grand Piano Domus.  biggrin.gif
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To add on, even Krell's first foray into making loudspeakers like the LAT-1 (or was it the LAT-0.. can't remember) was actually a licensed replica of the Guineari (i never bother to spell it right...) , except that instead of using wood, Krell used aluminium instead. Imagine that!


mugenfoo
post Jul 22 2008, 12:52 AM

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a KAV-300i goes for about RM3K to 5K these days ...
More than ample power to drive a SF up to the Extrema level.

The newer KAV-400xi is much more refined, but does not punch as strongly as the 300i (according to the guru at Audio Image).

Maybe can consider a Krell pre/power combo like a KSA-100 with a KRC-2 or similar ?


smile.gif

This post has been edited by mugenfoo: Jul 22 2008, 12:52 AM
mugenfoo
post Jul 22 2008, 09:33 PM

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The thing about SFs are that they are quite hard to drive (thats why they love Krell amps so much). But when driven with enough controlling power, they really sing.

When SFs are under powered, they will sound really sloppy, blurry, mushy, lazy, no dynamics, etc etc . If severely underpowered, SFs can sound really shrill and harsh as well (coz the high end treble is clipping and it will sound really awful).

Got a good friend who drives a pair of Concertino (the original 1st gen. ones) with a MusicalFidelity XA-1 amp and a Micromega Minium CDP. Really bang for buck for a budget setup.


mugenfoo
post Jul 27 2008, 06:11 PM

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If you are in Penang, can try to ask Sound-Concepts if they got any stock lying around ... but i doubt if they do . sad.gif

If in Klang Valley .... I think you're pretty much outta luck.

But there's aways E-Bay ! (God bless the Internet).
hahahaha

mugenfoo
post Jul 28 2008, 01:26 AM

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QUOTE(grandspy @ Jul 27 2008, 09:50 PM)
Had a good listen to the Bladelius amp today. Not the Thor but the much bigger brother. Still it gave some idea on characteristics of the amp. Tubey sounded it was indeed. And I did like it  biggrin.gif

hasyrein, welcome!
PcWork, so when is the SF listening session? long time overdue..  wink.gif BTW the top of the range SF speakers gave me goosebumps all over  sweat.gif
*
Just asking, you guys got a decent listening room to audition the SF stuff ?


mugenfoo
post Jul 28 2008, 10:39 AM

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hahaha ... i can bring my SF Concertos to contribute to the test sessions ...

mugenfoo
post Jul 28 2008, 02:49 PM

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obviously ... its like Honda Accord compared to Honda Civic.

THe question would be, what environment would be better for the speaker to be used in. Same goes for the kind of Amplifier available to drive those speakers.




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