http://www.mudah.com.my/vi/1033831.htm?ca=9_s

omg.. 1 month of age wana sell d?
can somebody stop him?

do u mind to elaborate more on the difference of the after effect of the surgery between the 2?
wat kinda complications or impact that might be face by newbies ?
i had a really terrible experience with dr.Y so i would strongly not recommend anybody esp newbies from going there.

juz my 2 cent

The problem you were facing with Dr Yeoh wasn't about neutering.
KP is telling that Dr Yeoh is better regarding neutering males gliders for beginners.

does it matter whether my issue is about neutering or not?
mayb u misunderstand my point
i never say tat he lacks skills or knowledge neither am i comparing who is better in neutering between the 2 vet.
ta fact that he have so much supporter glorifying him around, shows that he must be very knowledgeable
but as a vet he still lacks something crucial.

i am much more interested to know what kinda complications that the glider might face.

I'm not at the state of misunderstanding, maybe you are..

Read again what KP said, she's recommending Dr Yeoh if you wanna neuter your gliders. Maybe Dr Jenny is a bit new to this (I don't know).

Other than neutering, she said you may consult Dr Jenny. So what is it you're trying to say here? If you don't like Dr Yeoh then feel free to go to other vets.

I went to both vets before. Yes, Dr Yeoh only managed to cure my glider 1 time only. The other time was screwed up. Also, went to Dr Jenny 3-4 times already, all were successfully cured.

Just when it comes to neutering, KP is suggesting to go to Dr Yeoh. Only if you really hate Dr Yeoh (after he has tried his best), you could always go to other vets and take risks too.

Thanks Bonai!

Yes, broken_string, this about the neutering procedure ONLY. And a caution for beginners. For advance owner, you may try and choose whom-ever you want but at your own risk still.

For any other normal medical treatment, you can go to Dr. Jenny or Dr. Yeoh freely to your choice, to whom you feel comfortable with.

Okay, lemme briefly explain...

When I first wanted to neuter Iggy, I consulted a few breeders in the US and UK. All of them had advised me to make sure the anaesthetic used is gas. So after a few search, I found that Dr. Yeoh can use gas and is willing to do the procedure. There are still risk and such as explain before any surgery, which anyone opting for it should understand. So I proceeded with faith. After the surgery, I had half expected Iggy to still be dozy and all, but to my surprised he is already up and aware(although blinking a few times to focus). But overall he was okay. He didn't crab, didn't make any noise, didn't try to bite and so on... He groomed the surgery part, but very little... By the time I got home, he was up and jumping and gliding from the curtain to me already! He didn't have any side effects or anything...

However, Micah's case is totally different...

I know Dr. Jenny is good, I have heard the reviews and after meeting her I know she is good natured and gentle too.

My desire to make glider neutering more available and cost efficient made me want to try it out with Dr. Jenny. And after hearing it's a success with Reanne's male glider, I don't mind trying it out despite she knowing she doesn't use gas.

So again, before the surgery, Dr. Jenny explains the risk and such that could happen and understanding it clearly and knowing clearly well Micah's health history, I agreed to proceed with it... After the surgery, again I had half expected Micah to be dozy and all especially knowing that the anaesthetic is the normal type, but Micah was already up... But... He was not looking very well at all... He biting none stop! Biting his hand, biting his feet, biting the surgery area and basically pulling and biting anything he can... It was heart breaking! I let him bite my fingers and hand just to stop him from biting himself... It was painful, but I took it because I could not bear seeing him biting himself... In short, he looked like a crazy biting glider! I was sooo worried... Dr. Jenny tried to calm me down and told me that he might not have taken the surgery very well and reacting to the pain and all... But it was not a pretty sight... I requested for a pain killer and immediately fed him with it. Dr. Jenny said it should help reduce the pain after 30 mins... Trying to control his biting, my fingers and hand was already covered with red marks and some even bled... Dr. Jenny gave me the tongue stick to give to Micah and let him bite that instead... Then I left the clinic...

All the way in the car, Micah was still acting crazy...

After 30 mins, still no effect till I had to call Dr. Jenny with worry... She said the painkiller may only help to reduce the pain, other than that she really cannot do anything... But she did kindly offer to take care of Micah for the night... I kindly declined...

About 40 mins later, Micah fell asleep out of tiredness... I checked on his breathing every 5 mins, just to make sure he's still breathing... But barely an hour later, he woke up and started the whole biting like crazy again... By this time, the stick was not sufficient as he keeps on turning around and round and grab my fingers and bite, and this time everytime he bites, it bleeds...

That night after returning him in the cage with the rest, he seems a little dozy and could not climb or grab things very well(infact he fell a couple of times) so I placed another pouch at the bottom of the cage...

Then he started grooming the surgery area and pulling at it... I quickly took him out and checked, it was bleeding a bit... Panicked, I checked with Dr. Jenny... Then I had to keep him occupied by playing with him and letting him bite or munch a rope... Till I was so tired and keep falling asleep...

Took him back to the cage, went to sleep but up every 2 hours to check on him... No further biting or bleeding...

The next morning he seemed fine...

I'm still monitoring him, he seems to be doing okay now... No doubt the surgery is a success, but the event I had to go through is a nightmare...

With that, I do not wish other people to encounter the same thing unless you are truly prepared for it...

One more thing... Gas anaesthetic seems safer and Iggy didn't have to fast or anything the night before, but Micah had to fast a little the night before the surgery... So after the surgery, during all the biting scene, I shringe feed him apple juice to give him some energy...

Sorry for a lengthy story, but you asked for it

Again, I am not stopping you to go to Dr. Jenny for other medical needs, please don't misunderstand me... This is just a pre-caution about neutering and especially to newbies...


KP

sry krynzpeaches.. just an expression of 'desperate' i've prepared myself with quite a number of knowledge.. and been waiting for almost 2 years for a sugar glider.. and now i got money.. and luckily i found one trustable home breeder named reanne.. hehehe all these while i didnt' buy from pet shop but reanne change my mind and perception bout pet shops and now i decided to get a joey from our trustable Reanne d.. i guess all these while.. i finally found the purpose why i didn't manage to get one cause something is stopping me from buying a joey from a petshop because of what i'm reading in this post..

Wild joey's / unethical breeders / and sick joey's..

maybe i wana go visit her glider and see my future joey.. hehehe and anticipate for it to come to a new papa.. and my gf mama.. =P hehehe

ps.. anybody got another one joey for sale/adopt? me wan another one.. reanne got one onli rite?

Okay, I've explained my story there. Please don't argue yah, just sharing my personal experience because surgery is not a minor thing and involves anaesthesia.

I am not glorifying Dr. Yeoh here, so is anyone else, but everybody has different experience with a certain Dr. so we must understand, no 2 Dr. are the same and not all Dr. are bad.

Dr. Yeoh is a little straight forward kind of professional and doesn't have much time to look into something compassionately and such. He just tries to do his job.

On the other hand, Dr. Jenny is more gentle and compassionate and doesn't mind taking the time to entertain their patient and such. She tries to do her job with a bonus on her attitude.

But professionally, both are undeniable good at what they do...

Neutering case, both are still new, but perhaps the prep and equipment is different.

I understand your case with Dr. Yeoh and I know what happened and also your frustration, but we still can't rule out Dr. Yeoh completely in other cases.

I hope you understand


KP

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Added on April 2, 2008, 12:29 pm

No need to be sorry. If you're ready and all, it's completely okay


KP


This post has been edited by krynzpeaches: Apr 2 2008, 12:29 PM

well, yes maybe you are not in the state of misunderstanding but your are in the state of confusion i guess.
i doubt u have the slightest idea of what my post mean.

do u mind to elaborate more on the difference of the after effect of the surgery between the 2?
wat kinda complications or impact that might be face by newbies ?
i had a really terrible experience with dr.Y so i would strongly not recommend anybody esp newbies from going there.

the meaning of my first 2 sentence, in case u dont understand means i would like to know wat is the difference between the condition of the 2 glider after being neuter by 2 different vets.

Plus wat kinda complications that newbie might find it hard to handle if being done by Dr.J
she dint elaborate on this, therefore i am sure most would like to know since she is the only one here who have tried it with both vet. I have no exp on this therefore its not for me to comment, thats why i ask kp ta difference.

my last sentence only suggest newbie against going to dr.Y base on my own personal experience just the same as how KP would suggest newbie to visit Dr.Y for neutering, I dont see anything wrong with it, everyone is entitled with their own opinion... no ? And if you still would like to bring your pets to DR.Y be my guest, its ur call. i am merely stating my opinion base on what i experience.

Read again what i said, i am recommending against going to Dr.Y, no matter whats ur pet problem

i have my fair share of experience with both vets, anyway aint u contradicting with urself as u mention that you have been to dr.J for 3-4 times and all were successfully cured but yet u say she is abit new or i dont know ??

surely anybody who have a 100% recovery rate after going to the same vet for 3-4 time can come up with a better point than i dont know ? therefore i truly doubt your understanding on the pov that we are arguing today.

Anyway i would agree that experience wise or knowledge wise dr.Y is than Dr.J but as a vet dr.y still lacks something crucial.

Again, i repeat, i clearly understand and respect KP comment, somehow its somebody who dont. If you still dun understand what i am trying to say, here kindly repeat the above post again. And aint you contradicting urself again as you dun understand what i am trying to say but yet keep on giving wrong impression of my intention here.



well first of all, i am not tat interested with ur pets past medical records however thanks for ta information as it strengthen my points with insightful medical data between the success rate of the 2 vets. Unfortunately this isnt the reason why i dislike Dr.y



Again i repeat. i clearly understand KP's post, And for the records i dont hate Dr.Y, just that i feel that he lacks the criteria of a good vet, and i am quite offended with your last remark on defending him by saying that he has tried his best. you have no idea what had i go through, pls do not simply hentam your facts out of nowhere if u duno anything, thank you.

...
Now I dont even dare to send my gliders to both...

Yo emino, it's safe to neuter with any of the two vets as KP said.
She's telling u the difference between both and what happened to her gliders.

Please ignore any argue kinda post. There's always people bringing hateness rather than trying to solve out. Just stick to whatever KP posted.

Emino, as KP recommended, go to Dr Yeoh! Eventhough it's more expensive than Dr Jenny.
But as people say: "If you can't afford the vet, don't get a pet!" haha...
Perhaps money isn't the matter for you. I know your passion for Teddy is way above all that..
Surely you'll gonna get the best vet you could to neuter him..

Good luck emino.. looking forward to hear news from you bro..

EDITED: p/s - broken_string, if you want to argue further with me, please keep it private just between you and me. I'm not sure whether people like to read about our misunderstandings, if there is. But professionally, I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. If I know you would react this way, I won't even bother to post a reply. Again, I'm sorry and I truly mean it..

This post has been edited by bonai: Apr 2 2008, 01:26 PM

i feel sorry just by reading kp's story.. the experience with dr.j seems scary... but well enough , she shows commitment

dont know how dr.y will react when there's complications with a surgery right? touch wood tho, hope it doesnt happen

KP dear, it didnt work.. Hehehe... Just like so many times before....
its ok..its ur signature wat...

And thanks for the info on neutering Micah n Iggy.

thanks for sharing ur exp kp

not arguing,
kinda free today so juz having a nice chat only

and i understand and fully agree on what your trying to say dun worry.
well my thoughts would be

equipment, knowledge and experience wise i would surely agree that dr.yeoh's clinic is far better and much more advance if compare to hands and paws. afaik gas anesthesia will be much more expensive compare with normal anesthesia as gas one is much safer compare to the normal one.

for the normal one the vet have to determine ta correct amount sometimes with measurement as little as 0.xml and make sure this amount is enough to keep the patient asleep during the surgery to prevent bucking and also make sure its not too strong that the patient cant wake up after the surgery therefore the dosage must be very precise according to the weight and health condition of the patient at that moment. Furthermore with something as small as sg, its much much harder than doing it with cats and dogs.

whenever a surgery is required no matter which vet you went, there would surely be risk. risk of human factor or any unforeseen circumstances, therefore its obvious that most ppl will choose the one with the best equipment, knowledge or skills to increase the survival rate and to assure no other complication arise after the surgery. i clearly understand where your coming from based on your advice. i believe alot of ppl will be grateful to know this and i could understand ur feelings after the surgery. i would hav try to warn others about it and hope no one will have to face it again.

respect you for letting your glider bite u to stop himself from biting itself, i think there will be very few glider owner out there who is better than u

but still its too early to say which one is better, mayb we hear from reanne her exp after this. but i do agree that doing it with ta normal one will bring more stress to the glider after the surgery.

but my thoughts would be each glider will react differently and it would be quite hard to find that 2 glider will react or behave identically even if they are twins.

i wouldnt have noe the condition between iggy and micah before the surgery better than you. hence their health before doing the surgery will also impact the way they react after it, am i right ? furthermore like i say different glider will react differently to something.

well i do agree that since dr.jenny is using normal anesthesia the risk factor is surely much more higher and side effect after the surgery might be more obvious than using gas.

anyway thanks for sharing this

Emino,
Lets wait for Reanne's reply regarding her experience neutering her suggie with Dr Jenny.
If Reanne's case is a success, then u can choose either one.

What I'm trying to point here is, as we know every suggie has their own personalities. Just like us human.
Some of us can mask or retain sickness/hurt to a certain extend. Come just cant. So i think its part of the suggie behaviour as well. KP, please dun take offend. I know Micah is dear to u as much as Iggy.

But wut im trying to point here is, after we've tried our best, n give our best, n i believe the vet also had tried their best, so wut we can do next is hope that they'll recover. Like what KP had done with both Iggy and Micah. She's tried her best, equiped herself with research and and get testimonial/opinion from other suggie owner before she let her suggies 'step' into the neutering/operation room. Next step its on the suggie itself to be able to comprehand with the procedure and our faith to help them recover from this ordeal. Wut KP had experienced with Micah's case is an experience not everyone can handled.

Wut im saying is, dun let anything hinder u from doing what's best for ur suggie, if u cant get it from Dr A, u can from Dr B or even Dr C. Aite Emino?

Have got to give it to you on that KP. Your finger took all the beating and was looking like a plump cherry by the time Micah caught some sleep. And yeah..Micah looked really sweet sleeping, with his Superman pose. Hope he's doing much better now. Are you preparing any special diet for the recovering little one?

Very uncertain la.. if u wana come to an "operation" even human operation and bypass has failures as well.. so.. it's very debatable.. no certain.. as long as u willing to sacrifice ur night and ur money for the extra care after that.. then it would be fine.. provided the vet would give equal care as well.. if they willing to guide u throughout the process after that..

Aieee, don't la like that... I tried both Dr. just for the sake of every suggie owner you know... So that I'll be able to share the neutering option with everyone...

As I've mentioned, both surgery is a success. It was the after effects with Micah's one that was a nightmare.

Iggy was completely fine maybe also because of the anaesthesia difference.

That is why I'd advise to go with Dr. Yeoh to neuter for beginners If it makes you feel better, I will teman you if you wanna go okay



I'm more than happy to share my experience with everybody equally.

Yes, for small animals gas anaesthesia is better recommended compared to normal ones. And yes, it would cost slightly more.

Because normal anaesthesia goes into the blood stream thus the side effects towards the certain animal is unpredictable. Unlike gas which does not effect or goes into their system hence there is no need for fasting and such.

Yes, it is too early to tell which is better, but for now, I would recommended Dr. Yeoh based on my experience and the anaesthesia factor especially to beginners.

Yes, the health of the glider is also important, which in this case, I fully understand Micah's health history compared to Iggy actually because Micah has been with me since little while Iggy was already an adult when I got him and I have no history of his past.



Reanne is more than welcome to share her story, but please understand that all 3 neutering procedure IS a Success. The difference is the after effects that one has to handle.

And again, I am not saying Dr. Jenny is not good, but since I have had better experience with Iggy, it made a huge impact on me with Micah being that way.


KP

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Added on April 2, 2008, 2:21 pm

Thank you!

But it was more worst after he woke up from that "sweet sleep"... Every bite drew blood

Anyway, he seems to be doing fine now... Played with him a bit last night and he's back to himself almost 99%.

Haha, nope, no special diet... After having to fast them a little, I gave them as much food as their little tummy can muster


KP

This post has been edited by krynzpeaches: Apr 2 2008, 02:21 PM

i dun think thats arguing
i am merely correcting you from misinterpreting my intention of what i am trying to say.
furthermore, i like to keep things transparent and for the records i have nothing against u.
so there is no need of apologizing.

i guess the one who is overreacting is you ba, and i am not angry with you anyway,
just the fact that i am abit frustrated tat you say dr.Y tried his best but the fact is he did neither do anything nor reduce my boy's suffering, had i know the outcome will be like this, i would have put him to sleep right from the start rather than having him suffering like this.
if you had not stray towards personal agenda i believe this would be a good discussion.

i am just doing my part of raising awareness.
just the same as how KP share her exp on dealing with 2 different vets for the neutering process.

me too at first put high hope on dr.Y due to the almost 100% positive review i receive from the net
but end up being disappointed, time after time. dont tell me that just because i am the unfortunate minority, i shouldnt have voice up and tell others about it to preserve his good image or records?

in a profession where a life is at stakes, u do 99% case perfectly dun giv u the rights that u can screw up the remaining one. i feel tat as a doc or a vet, one must treat every case seriously regardless whether its a small, big issue or whether it can bring in more profit or less. Dr.Jenny have show me the commitment that she take it very seriously of every patients and willing to go the extra mile without paid for the benefits of the patients. while dr.Y make me feel that he take lightly of my case and its doesn't worth his time to treat my boy as it wont bring much profit.

well i understand that he had no responsibility nor commitment that he must definitely cure my pets therefore i have no one to blame other than myself. Just for the records, i neither hate nor blame him, i just dislike their attitude and service thats all. if u can accept that kinda service its up to u. no doubt they have more staff, exp and equipment but they dun have a big heart as compare to those from hands and paw.

i dun see any reason why i am being label as bringing hateness rather than solution just because of this.
there is no clear logic when it comes to bringing ur pets to the vets. we can only learn from experience and the reason a forum to exist is to share information, experience and discussion.

i believe both myself and Kp have bring up our experience. thus its up to the rest to decide on their own what is best for their pets in order to avoid having the same experience as either me or KP.

i believe only then will this forum serve its purpose.
juz imagine if kp never share this, i believe ppl like emino will just hav to blindly choose a vets to do it.
i am just sharing my experience, its up to u all to decide whats best for your pets.

if ur somebody who can only hear something that you like to hear, a forum is not a place for u to hang out.
sometimes i feel that this place seems quite conservative, a little bit of sparks everybody goes hoo haa
dun u tink that its kinda boring to have only post like; omg thats cute, i want to get one, where can i get one,

up to you.. say whatever u want then..