If TTB didn't press Buy button tis morning, most likely the 'wait' will continue.....

4 year is a long slumber.

I donno what to say to TTB & his "overvalue" views on KLCI since few years back.. Every year collect fee & enjoy life only..

I think there is something wrong with the arrangement with ICAP. I understand that there are other ETFs traded around the world but these are all low cost some sort of index funds. Their annual management fees are very low and definitely not 2%. Because ICAP is a closed end fund, there is no way to punish the fund manager by redeeming your units as with all open ended funds including unit trusts and also hedge funds. Unit trusts system is very fair, you don't like the fund, you redeem at NAV calculated daily. You get your money back at fair value. Not with ICAP. You tak suka---you keluar! How to keluar? Sell in the open market BUT the market price is way below NAV so you do not transact at fair values when you buy and when you sell. Even if the fund perform like shit, there will be no closure because there is no redemption. Once set up, closed end traded funds like ICAP are perpetual money machine ----- for the fund manager, not you.

I hope somebody can look into this and see that there is really no need to have a closed end exchange traded fund that is not low cost based. ETFs are OK because they are low cost. They allow people to do indexing at low cost. There is no performance fees. The fund is automatically adjusted to mimic a certain index. These ETFs are to be encouraged, not something like ICAP. It is better to delist it and let people buy/sell at NAV. Is there another fund like ICAP anywhere around the world?

Did anybody raise option of share buyback if market price < NAV at AGM?

That is the reason why his focus is not on 1 market alone. He may be saying something loud to the media but doing the reverse behind. Who knows? When a fund manager is bullish, it is probably he has accumulated a big chunk of shares waiting for others to push the wagon further on. Most of his insights are correct but that does not mean you will make hell lot of money.

Only way to buy up all the shares off the market and delist since its under NAV. Which some fund tried to do, but failed.

This thread active again....

The fund manager is the main key - the main asset and the main liability of the fund itself.
Hence, any focus, any discussion has to be on the fund manager itself.
The investor of the fund (I think la.. but then... I could be wrong since I am a trader only) needs to gauge and understand what he HAS BEEN doing for fund the past few years.
That's the most important gauge.
Reputation of the fund manager or his so-called investment ideas/philosophy counts for NOTHING if the fund manager does NOTHING to create value for the fund.

As mentioned few very long winded time before...


Total fees for 2009 is 3,495,212
Total fees for 2010 is 4,037,100
Total fees for 2012 is 5,789,726
Total fees for 2013 is 6,179,782
Total fees for 2014 is 6,218,982
Total fees for 2015 is 6,318,354

Current total of all fees collected since 2009:32,095,510.

Those figures highlights exactly what you mentioned: closed end traded funds like ICAP are perpetual money machine ----- for the fund manager, not you

Teng Boo, has collected (not in donations la) 32 million from the fees he charges since 2009!!!

And the fees each year INCREASES!

And, if anyone analyse these figures and compare to what he has done (FOR the FUND) for the past few years..... yes?

And every year, since 2010, he says the same thing...
over and over again.
Like a broken record....
the market is expensive/over valued/no value blah, blah, blah..
and of course, everyone knows that since 2010, the KLCI went on a fantastic BULL RUN !!!

so bull run...
this funny manager...
just opens his mouth...
say market expensive....
and that's it....
meanwhile...
he collects his FEES.


So how would you even gauge such a funny manager?
Would you have RESPECT?

Me?
I admire him...
He so cunning....
Just collects fees only....
and yet he can have so many fansi of his fun !



And for the record...
for those who are lazy...
this is from the last annual report...



** looks like Parkson LOSSES for icapital will be MASSIVE!
as at 31st May 2015 (29 May to be precise), Parkson last traded at 2.03.
Parkson today is trading at 1.12.

This looks like another 10 MILLION loss in a single stock for iCapital again. (Axiata was the first!)

and this screen shot is from 2014 annual report...




now the question is this.....

WHAT SHOULD AN INVESTOR DO IF TENG BOO DOES NOTHING WITH THE 200+++ MILLION CASH IN THE FUND ???


Would you come back the following year, and yet, have the same faith in this fund and its funny manager?




ps: this is a broken record for me. evey year... same old same old....

boon3 can ROB him

ask where the he KEEP DONATION money.

Shareholders should push for share buyback by ICAP at AGM. Current market price is 20 - 30% below NAV. If ICAP buyback shares and CANCELS units, that will increase NAV per unit of each share of those who still believe in fund manager while allowing those who have lost faith to get back money at a smaller discount to NAV.

However, this act will decrease total fund size (and thus manager fee). So, hard to ask turkeys to vote for Christmas. Fund manager won't do it unless forced to.

I think share buyback would be a good compromise between totally dissolving fund (killing the fund manager's golden goose) and just continue business as usual (forcing shareholders to hold shares at discount to NAV).

Anyway, dissolving the fund when market is down is the worst decision to make. Better to wait for recovery and look at his performance. If he underperforms KLCI, time to dissolve fund. Fund manager that cannot make the cut should not hold shareholders hostage.

Maybe a minority shareholder can raise this issue at AGM and see who around him supports him. If no response, then time to quietly sell out.

My 2 cents.

Teng Boo called the market expensive/over value/no value since 2010...
since 2010, how has KLCI performed?
Since 2010, how has iCapital performed? (the irony thing is, every single time this question is raised, many will bring out the issue that iCapital has perform how terror since listing. Which begs the question... how can Teng Boo, the funny manager collect increasing fee while sitting on huge cash?)

So has the fund been under performing?
My answer is yes.

Given the current turmoil...
Do you think Teng Boo will jump right into the market?
I doubt it.....

Why?
Cos CLEARLY the best option for him is to sit on cash and collect his 6+ million fees every year!

Will iCapital shareholders wise up?

The reason simple -

you give me your cash I help you to keep for 4 year?
can when I return 70% your money as full return of your MONEY ?


30% is mine service fee for keeping your money.


This post has been edited by felixmask: Aug 27 2015, 10:34 AM

Shit!!!

Stone fire spotted....

apa it STONE FIRE

could be "batu api"

people who encourage or stir up issue

The problem is market price is having significant discount to the NAV.
So if sell out needs to incur at least 20~30% discount to NAV.

One way to resolve the price mis-match can be through constant dividend distribution, as this market always like dividend play.
Dividend stocks are highly appreciated by the market, and share price generally being well supported well due to its yield, example, BAT, GAB etc.

After all, the fund does receive dividend from its holding, as well as cash portion that can generate FD interest, so just give those interest income + dividend received as reward/dividend back to shareholders, without need to touch on the original capital as well.

TTB won't use existing Cash to buyback shares

Lol !!!

You are good!


In the share market, don't go hero worshiping...

You can glance thru the whole thread...
It's there to be seen.

I taught the fund objective is to buy undervalued stocks.

So Icap is not undervalued on current price?

No it is not undervalued on current price because people discount his capability