Harsh voices?

I could address your comments as fanboyism but I won't.

This is because I understand that this is a forum where the main benefit should be everyone should share opinions and not simply participate in a cheerleader/hero worship.

It defeats any purpose.

I would acknowledge that most of comments were against Teng Boo however, I state with comments, which are always welcome for rebuttal and I also understand that my comments could be wrong and if I am wrong, I would welcome comments stating why.

For example, you state him as being wise fund manager.

Well, I agree of course he is much wise, in fact, to a point of being cunning!

He's done extremely well (which again I do acknowledge) in his early days for the fund, and with this 'early lead' he chose to do nothing.
That's being wise from his own personal perspective.
He protects his lead, his reputation.
And in the meantime, he simply collects more and more money each year.

But is he wise from the shareholder perspective?
Or is he even wise, say for a perspective 'investor'?

If I want to be a shareholder or if I want to buy this 'stock'....
Teng Boo is the one and only one asset of the stock.
Of course, therefor it makes sense to be critical of him.

If I fail to do that (such an approach), it only means I am a blind cheerleader investor.
That's how I would gauge myself. (of course my choice of words might not please you)

And from my perspective, how would I gauge how wise Teng Boo is?

From research and Uncle Google, I find out that he's been making statements since 2010 that the market is expensive.
Every year, he says the same thing...
over and over again.
Like a broken record....

and sooner of later, of course, such words would become word of wisdom....

but sadly, for me, it's simply bullshit cos the market proved him to be dead wrong!
From 2010 to recently, the market made highs after highs....

And for the investors of the fund, with the fund manager adopting such a cautious approach, it only means that the shareholders miss out on great gains.....
There were plently of clear cut investment stocks the past few years...
stocks which easily tripled .......

Yup, for me... good for Teng Boo but he has under changed his shareholders.

That's my so-called harsh words but words backed by facts and evidence.

No one can predict the future, so do TTB.
TTB assessment is based on macro and micro economy, but this doesn't include any speculation activities occurred in the Bursa Malaysia which TTB has no power to stop on.
.
For me as a shareowner, if TTB can generate an average 10 % return (he did it), then I am satisfied with.
It is easy to shoot other people's failure after the event had occurred. 

For me, if TTB can safeguard our fund during crisis period, then I m happy with it. Look, ICAP has more than 200 million to invest any  time.

P/S no need to repeat over and over again what u so called facts and evidences, we are all aware of it. These are the old news, can throw into the dustbin. I have subscribed to TTB's Newletter RM 25 per year for 40+ copies, the news is really updated! If you are curious with it, just subscribe, I can't share it here!

Price of this stock on 24 Jan 2008 is 2.44 !!!!!!
Price today? 2.28.

Thanks for taking time to reply.

Predict future?
Not sure how you come up with that...
The point made is that Teng Boo, like recently, he expressed his opinions ( hey, he is fund manager and also investment advisor), that the markets is overvalued since 2000.
And because of this reasoning, he adopted a cash heavy strategy since 2000.
Was he predicting the future?
Every year, he say market mahal...
Every year, markets went up and up.
This is fact backed by links posted in earlier posts.

Did you know I just clicked on the first post.
Price of this stock on 24 Jan 2008 is 2.44 !!!!!!
Price today? 2.28.

I doubt if investors of this stock back then would be happy.

Safeguard the fund?
Look..I am talking on behalf of any perspective investors.
For me..
A fund is nothing but a possible investment.
And the purpose of investing is to make money.
Safeguard the fund?
If my fund manager thinks like this and not attempting to make money for the fund, then the fund becomes redundant.

Repeating the facts ia just merely stating what has happened.

I suggest u need to study over what is close end fund, it has its advantages and disadvantages.
It would undervalue when the investors sold its shares.
Maybe TTB is regretting now to establish close end fund i.e. ICAP, as London fxxking guy investors is taking advantages of this now...

Thank for sharing your view.

I suggest u need to study over what is close end fund, it has its advantages and disadvantages.
It would undervalue when the investors sold its shares.
Maybe TTB is regretting now to establish close end fund i.e. ICAP, as London fxxking guy investors is taking advantages of this now...

Thank for sharing your view.

Once it's listed, no matter how we or anyone else spin it, it's a stock, where anyone can buy.
And before we buy, we need to know the strength and the weakness of the stock...
the asset and the liability...
which is Tan Teng Boo.

Look, are you denying he made statements that the market is over valued, as early as 2010?

Are you denying the fact that KLSE has outperformed the fund... ie... Teng Boo has done shitty compared to the overall market since 2010?

These are facts, which is out there.

I do not think I or anyone else need to be a subscriber to Teng Boo's newsletter.

These facts are there.

If I want to buy the stock, first thing that needs to be asked, is HOW IS THE FUND DOING CURRENTLY?

how do you gauge that?

I, would use the most recent 5 year track record.

That's how I would gauge the fund..... and sadly the fund is under performing.
****

Personally, since Teng Boo is reluctant to risk his reputation by putting more money into stocks, he needs to do what is correct.
He CANNOT collect blind money (6 million plus a year) and every year decide to do nothing....
crying that the market is over valued.

Try comparing icap fund performance with other VALUE fund performance.

Have you?

Why are they outperforming Teng Boo?

Why are they charging less fees?

Yes, Teng Boo should close the fund and return all the money.
That's only fair to the shareholders.

Dude, that's a very harsh call on the London guy.
Sorry, my opinion. 
This is a listed stock la.
And with being a listed stock, anyone can buy....and even attempt to takeover the stock.
Just like owners ... taking stocks private at cheap absurd prices.
Are they f*****-ers cos of doing what capitalism allows them to do?
My answer is no.

You mean TTB regrets making all those millions a year of fees?  

Thanks for sharing your view.

Everyone has his/her own investment criteria, if ICAP is not your cup of tea, then you can ignore it, no one is forcing u to buy this stock.
Each stock/counter has its own pros and cons.  There is no prefect stocks in this world. Even, there is no perfect man in this world. Are you?

To me, my investment strategies are very simple:

1). I will invest in the company with a trustworthy management.
2). I will invest in a company to give about a  compound growth of about 10%
3). Long-term view

Although ICAP is underperformed in these few years, but overall, it is outperformed KLSE, I am not anxious about it. It is a long-term investment. Temporary underperformance is not my concern. More importantly, It has RM200 million to invest at any time.
ICAP suits my investment criteria. I have invested this co. since its listing and I have no regret at all.

A good investor will look forward  future potential of a company. If someone merely judges the past performance of  a company, it is likely to forgo his investment opportunities. Take note, I am not persuading you to invest in any company.

Good luck.

Deceiving is probably the right word.

How can a manager's fees rise when he is NOT performing?

Good day to you.

I am glad that at least you acknowledge that the fund, has performed poorly the last 5 years.

Anyone understand that form is temporary and that class is permanent.

But can a last 5 years of under performance be classified as temporary under performance?

That's the first thing I would ask, really.

Secondly, you mention about the cash pile.

Yes, he has 200 million to invest any time.

But would he?

Now this is an important question, you really need to address for yourself.

It's your own money, not mine.

If it was me, how would I answer such question?

Well, I would refer to the past (I know, the past isn't the future but at least I get a rough idea on what to expect, agree?)

First, I would compare last year.

Was there any big correction in the market last year?

There was the drop on Aug, where the market went from 1807 to 1686...... well... did Teng Boo put the fund money into action?

answer...................?

Ok what about 2012?

There was the 2012 correction in Oct, where the market went from 1675 to 1606.... yeah, not as drastic....

but there was corrections that year too..... but did Teng Boo put the fund money into action?

answer..................?

So when the market corrects and yet Teng Boo doesn't put the fund money into action, what kind of conclusion can you draw out?

Ok.... another exercise.

This current correction.

Is it worth to buy now? or wait for more price drops?

Come next year.... if you read he doesn't put the fund money into action, what does this say?

Also, the past 5 years, ask yourself.... is there NOT a single value stock?

Why not invest in a company like Dutch Lady when it was trading around 17 ringgit back in 2012?

Not a value play for a value investor like Teng Boo?

This very last question is most alarming, imo.

How could there not be value stocks for Teng Boo to put the fund money into action?
Lastly, I am so alarmed by your statement to prophetjul that "As a shareowner of ICAP, I agree to reward for his contribution to the co.".

This really shouldn't be.

In fact, Teng Boo, aside, this is not how the corporate world should be,

Yes, put aside this is Tan Teng Boo.

just think of it as a normal corporate.......

then ask this.... should any CEO should not rake in millions for not performing.

For the record...

Total fees for 2009 is 3,495,212
Total fees for 2010 is 4,037,100
Total fees for 2012 is 5,789,726
Total fees for 2013 is 6,179,782
Total fees for 2014 is 6,218,982

Current total of all fees collected since 2009: 25,720,802

Can any human being justify collecting 25 million for basically not doing anything?

This is simply just so wrong ... 
I do hope that one day, you realise this.......
good day

For the record...

Total fees for 2009 is 3,495,212
Total fees for 2010 is 4,037,100
Total fees for 2012 is 5,789,726
Total fees for 2013 is 6,179,782
Total fees for 2014 is 6,218,982

Current total of all fees collected since 2009: 25,720,802

Can any human being justify collecting 25 million for basically not doing anything?

First of all, on behalf of ICAP's  shareowners , I would like to say THANK YOU  to advertise for ICAP here. The more replies to this thread, the more attention will be given by the public investors.

Secondly, I declare that I am no a related party to ICAP's management team whatsoever including TTB. The statement I made here is merely my own opinion as an investor of ICAP.

Thirdly, I would like to tell that I don't have time to reply all the questions that you have addressed here. These questions  are repeated several times and some question is childish. e.g. See below quoted:
But would he? ---> What do mean about that? Are u predicting his future action? This action is future, no one knows. But as fund manager, he should invest and I am quite confident that he will do so.
I won't want to waste my time here to reply  most of your questions. This doesn't mean that u questions is sound and valid.  You just read from the beginning of this thread, you may get some answers. I have been with this thread from the beginning. If you still couldn't  get all the answers here, you can get the answers from TTB's newsletter. TTB has explained/answered most of your questions in his newsletter. However, you didn't  want to. RM 25 for 1 year subscription with 40+ copies, u can't afford? It cost around RM 0.625 per copy and you get your answers instead of keep spinning here. The answers are there. Sorry, I wouldn't to share the info of his newletter here.
Why u only addressed from Year 2009 to Year 2014 and not from Year 2005 until now? To judge the performing of the stock/fund manager, u need to read the whole picture of the story, not selective. FYI, from Year 2005 (since listing) until now, TTB has generated a total of RM  287,165,394 of NET PROFIT (after all the expenses including the fee u mentioned. Assume doubling you fee to tackle for Year 2005 to Year 2008= RM 51,441,604, In my honest opinion, IT IS STILL WORTH IT.

This is probably my last reply to u at the moment since u keep repeating your questions and didn't want to find out yourself.

Good luck

Good day to you.

I am glad that at least you acknowledge that the fund, has performed poorly the last 5 years.

Anyone understand that form is temporary and that class is permanent.

But can a last 5 years of under performance be classified as temporary under performance?

That's the first thing I would ask, really.

Secondly, you mention about the cash pile.

Yes, he has 200 million to invest any time.

But would he?

Now this is an important question, you really need to address for yourself.

It's your own money, not mine.

If it was me, how would I answer such question?

Well, I would refer to the past (I know, the past isn't the future but at least I get a rough idea on what to expect, agree?)

First, I would compare last year.

Was there any big correction in the market last year?

There was the drop on Aug, where the market went from 1807 to 1686...... well... did Teng Boo put the fund money into action?

answer...................?

Ok what about 2012?

There was the 2012 correction in Oct, where the market went from 1675 to 1606.... yeah, not as drastic....

but there was corrections that year too..... but did Teng Boo put the fund money into action?

answer..................?

So when the market corrects and yet Teng Boo doesn't put the fund money into action, what kind of conclusion can you draw out?

Ok.... another exercise.

This current correction.

Is it worth to buy now? or wait for more price drops?

Come next year.... if you read he doesn't put the fund money into action, what does this say?

Also, the past 5 years, ask yourself.... is there NOT a single value stock?

Why not invest in a company like Dutch Lady when it was trading around 17 ringgit back in 2012?

Not a value play for a value investor like Teng Boo?

This very last question is most alarming, imo.

How could there not be value stocks for Teng Boo to put the fund money into action?
Lastly, I am so alarmed by your statement to prophetjul that "As a shareowner of ICAP, I agree to reward for his contribution to the co.".

This really shouldn't be.

In fact, Teng Boo, aside, this is not how the corporate world should be,

Yes, put aside this is Tan Teng Boo.

just think of it as a normal corporate.......

then ask this.... should any CEO should not rake in millions for not performing.

For the record...

Total fees for 2009 is 3,495,212
Total fees for 2010 is 4,037,100
Total fees for 2012 is 5,789,726
Total fees for 2013 is 6,179,782
Total fees for 2014 is 6,218,982

Current total of all fees collected since 2009: 25,720,802

Can any human being justify collecting 25 million for basically not doing anything?

This is simply just so wrong ... 
I do hope that one day, you realise this.......
good day

i, a non noted fund manager of sorts put my money into REITs for the last few yaers.
At least i reaped higher than FD rates!   

Didnt charge my firends for advising them either!  

Teaser!

To be honest, I think la, this current market should be a good test for Teng Boo and his die-hard supporters....

ie... will he finally put the funds millions and millions of ringgit into use for the fund shareholers.

ie... will recent collapse in oil prices, surely there is some value in the market...  sooner or later......

if he doesn't buy... clearly his intent his to protect his reputation, sit on the fund money (ie do nothing) and collect big fat fees each year !!!!!

TTB is caught in conundrum.

He didnt see value at CI 1670, 1600.

What can he see at 1700?

When will the see value?

Is he waiting for 1500, 1400 or 1000? 

if memory serves me correctly, TTB said the market already over-prized when it was at 1500 level.  so obviously he will only re-enter below 1500.