The NAV for ICAP is RM1.99 and now being traded in Bursa for RM2.44?

WTF? this counter has been monopolized by syndicates?

Avoid this counter at all cost!

What are you talking about?
NAV for a company?
Are you referring to the NTA?
It is normal for some counters to trade higher than their NTA.
Interests in this counter has increased maybe because they reported much higher profit for Q2.
This is a normal scenario in stock market, so I don't think we need to create such a fuss

For normal listed company, yes, it is a norm for company share price to trade above its NAV or NTA, due to the fact of potential higher earning ahead and good prospect and dividend yield return.

For Closed Ended Fund like ICAP, in theory, no, as closed ended fund they had no businesses, what they do is investing in equities market (can be bond as well). It is identical to UT, so buying a closed ended fund at above its NTA/NAV is not right. It is just like a UT NAV is 1.00, you go out market to buy 1.20, wise?

Their (closed ended fund) NAV is their net worth based on market price of their protfolio (as same as UT). But due to the fact, price is subjected to demand and supply theory so price can go way beyond or below its NAV, which happened on ICAP.

TS has some points, but to tell people avoid this counter at all cost seems a bit exaggorated.

har.. finally the pro responded. No one is stupid enough to pay 40sen premium considering ICAP NAV now is dropping. Avoid this counter and let recession reflect back the true value.

Oh, I did not know it was a "closed-ended fund". My apologies
For me, all of the counters listed on the exchange are closed-ended in nature.
Yes, it may not have a solid business, but take REITS as an example.
They work almost the same, and it is undeniable that price will eventually overtake the NAV/NTA.
Some may only buy when prices are below the book value, but if the company is doing fine, there will still be demand and supply forces that determine the closing price.
Yes I do agree on the point that I will not buy shares in companies with no concrete business above its book value, so in this ICAP case, we are the minority and it depends on people's willingness to take the risk.
As for what TS did, it is too over-rated in my opinion Stock market is there for a reason, and if people like it, they will buy. Too bad we can't ask people not to buy, ain't it

This is just my whole opinion, and it is not meant for flaming. Cheers

I think avoiding this counter at all cost is very funny advise. Investors will never say such a thing. Hardly any good company on KLSE will trade at a discount to its NTA/NAV. I can think of Proton but that is a very shaky company. Protons assets per share is around RM9 whereas it is now trading at about half that value. You will never find well managed stocks like ICAP trading at a discount to their NAV because demand for the stock generally will outstrip supply and thus the price will be higher. However, a stock trading above its NAV isnt a bad buy or being 'monopolised by syndicates'. One has to look at the basket of stocks ICAP holds and see that it has growth potential. If the growth potential is good the who cares if its trading at a slight premium. One cannot have a simplistic view but take an overall view of the stock. Who is managing it? What are its top holdings? What is its past record? What is the general market sentiment? How is global economy doing? I'm sure as an investor, Tan Teng Boo is much more capable than lots of fellows who keep commenting around here.

Check out these articles:
http://klsestockreview.blogspot.com/2008/0...em-on-klse.html
http://www.ahyap.com/blog/icap.php

Tan Teng Boo is a famous fund manager, no doubt his capability on managing funds but he alone cannot control external forces. He's better off than people commenting on forums? well, of course.

How's global economy doing? US is heading into recession and what will happen to our economy in general?

Read ahyap's blog btw. For the price now, it is wise to avoid this counter and enter when the price is right. Paying a whooping 45 sen premium per unit is stupid. Period.

We have to understand that that is the minority's view on it.
Some might think it's stupid (eg you) and some might think it's worth it (eg klsestockreview), so why not we just let the others do the due diligence and let market forces set the price?
I don't see a point of us debating over this, because you have done your job in providing information.
Since everyone will have their own decision at the end, I suggest this thread be closed to avoid unnecessary postings by spammers, with only a few words?
Again, thank you Vv.SoViEt.vV for sharing. We need more people like you to contribute in providind information

Regards

ICAP is a closed ended fund, not a stock or share, bare in mind which is the central point of this thread discussion. Can't use normal stock NTA or NAV issue to compare with NAV issue on closed ended fund. A bit like apple and orange issue.
But to say avoid at all cost seems a bit exxagorated as mentioned.

For eg. (assuming, not real) ICAP is holding Maybank, Pbbank, BAT etc, the total market price or value of those stocks will equal to the ICAP NAV, so if one is paying 20% premium on a closed ended fund, that's means you are buying BAT, Maybank and Pbbank stocks etc that are 20% higher than current market price. So if Pbbank stock now is 11.00, so if one buy a closed ended fund at a 20% premium, it is indirectly equivalent to buy at 13.20 for Pbbank share. So, by right, better off buying through open market of Pbbank share at 11.00, if can. <-- I stated if can because it is a pool of diversification investment like UT as limited fund individual can't have the luxurious to do it. It is as same as UT although one can always invest on their own in stock market, but if one is not rich and limited fund, like several thousand or ten of thousand only, one never able to achieve the diversification like fund does.

As said, since closed ended fund is listed one is subjected to demand and supply issue to determine its daily share price, so some price distortion can be expected. If investors really ike its portfolio structured then due to the demand supply theory, its price can be traded at its above NAV.
But over long run, its price won't run away too much on its fundamental worth aka NAV

No doubt about the professionalism of the ICAP founders and its portfolio.
Just to highlight as part of issue on closed ended fund. Not mean to recommend anything. Judge your own.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jan 25 2008, 02:00 PM

1) Debate on forum is healthy.

2) If you attempt to express sarcasm on forum I'd suggest you logoff and do something more beneficial than keep on telling moderator to lock thread.

3) Your contribution to this thread discussion is bolded on my quote.

-------------------------

Thread closed due to lose of interest. Again, thanks for cherroy for his contribution. PM him if you wish to reopen this thread.

This post has been edited by Vv.SoViEt.vV: Jan 25 2008, 05:34 PM

If you think that the current market is sustainable at this level and are looking to invest in unit trust, you may want to have a look at ICAP (5108) closed end fund listed on KLSE.

It is a highly regarded fund and has been traded above its NAV most of the time. See chart below.



Only during the heavy selldown in equity markets end of last year, the market price crossed below its NAV.

ICAP closed at RM 1.47 yesterday (13 April 2009) against its latest published NAV of RM 1.59 as on 8 April 2009 (Icap closed at RM 1.44 on 8 April 2009). With the surge in stock market last few days, the NAV could be higher and widen the gap between market price and its NAV.





The above are historical charts how the fund outperformed the KLCI.

The transaction fee for closed end fund (is actually the cost of buying and selling the stock, about 1.2%) is lower than unit trust fund (about 5.5%).

However, closed end fund is less liquid compared to unit trust. Unlike unit trust whereby the fund management company is made compulsory to repurchase the unit, sometimes it is hard for the investors of closed end fund to get buyers at reasonable price and the gap between buyers' price and sellers' price may be more than 1 bid.

My friend like the fund manager Tan Teng Boo so much that he invested in the stock so that he could attend and listen to his market analysis at AGM.

More info at: ICAPITAL

Article from: bla, bla, bla

---

Added on April 17, 2009, 5:00 pmNAV as at 15 April 09 RM 1.63

16 April 09 closing price RM 1.47

KLCI closed slightly higher on 16 April 09. Assume no change in NAV

Current share price RM 1.47 is about 9.8% discount of its NAV

---

Added on August 8, 2009, 6:51 pmsome highlight of Icap AGM

http://ooibenghooi.blogspot.com/2009/08/ic...agm-080809.html

This post has been edited by benghooi: Aug 8 2009, 06:51 PM

the price now below it NAV, will this time break it resistance?

http://cwyeoh-stock.blogspot.com/

Well, 5th anniversary listing of ICAP since 19/10/2005.

For these 5 years ICAP has shown an impressive result of approximately 20% compound interest p. a. One of the top fund in Boleh Land.

Detail as follow:-

Listing on 19/10/2005 NAV = RM 0.99
Today 17/10/2010 NAV = RM 2.45

http://www.icapital.biz/english/

TTB really not disappointing ICAP's shareonwers.

This post has been edited by firee818: Oct 17 2010, 08:21 AM

Its huge discount right now

NAV 2.63
Price 2.14

Can buy now

ICAP's price is lower than its NAV for quite some time now...

It won't go back to premium anymore

May i know why?

ICAP is good, although it has short track record of 5 years..I like where it puts our money into, like petdag. 18%p.a. is impressive to say the least. To say that it will never go back to its premium levels, that's hogwash, the market are irrational and the same cycle of over-exuberance will rear its head. But I can't say when, maybe 9 years from now? Hopefully, it will become somewhat of a Malaysian Berkshire Hathaway...*fingers crossed*

Goody2Shoes, do you subscribe to ICAP's newsletter?

i buy the newsletter