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 ICAP, traded price higher than NAV

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wil-i-am
post Aug 18 2013, 09:20 PM

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Out of d 11 stocks, keen on Parkson.
Any comments?
yok70
post Aug 19 2013, 03:17 AM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Aug 18 2013, 09:20 PM)
Out of d 11 stocks, keen on Parkson.
Any comments?
*
Its foreign assets do not look good in near future, most probably stay flat if not negative. Competition is tough. As in local, I see Parkson has been improving particularly in recent 1 year, I see more visitors. Still, it's never the #1 for most people, isn't it? People prefer Jusco much more. Valuation is not cheap too, dividend has been quite steady. For me, I'm not buying. I still holding 18 shares though, that was from shares dividend. I might just hold this 18 shares for another 20 years. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by yok70: Aug 19 2013, 03:19 AM
prophetjul
post Aug 19 2013, 07:48 AM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Aug 18 2013, 07:53 PM)
The stocks that icap currently holding are not trading at low PE.
I'd 11 stocks that icap holding on my list, the PE are 33, 24, 19, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9 and net loss (MSC).
none of them are close to average small-mid cap stocks at 6-8x.
cool2.gif
*
How very nice for TTB.......sitting on his rearend and STILL reaping off investors with his Manager's FEES.........

How very nice.
yhtan
post Aug 19 2013, 11:39 AM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Aug 19 2013, 03:17 AM)
Its foreign assets do not look good in near future, most probably stay flat if not negative. Competition is tough. As in local, I see Parkson has been improving particularly in recent 1 year, I see more visitors. Still, it's never the #1 for most people, isn't it? People prefer Jusco much more. Valuation is not cheap too, dividend has been quite steady. For me, I'm not buying. I still holding 18 shares though, that was from shares dividend. I might just hold this 18 shares for another 20 years.  biggrin.gif
*
For the bold part, it only applicable for Malaysia market. AFAIK, mainland chinese still view Parkson as high class shopping mall
wil-i-am
post Aug 19 2013, 12:09 PM

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Article from The Edge

KUALA LUMPUR: Tan Sri William Cheng's most prized holding, Parkson Retail Group Ltd (PRG), saw a slight recovery in its share price after the Hong Kong-listed counter slumped to a historical low of HK$2.93 (RM1.57) in early July, which was less than a third of its HK$9.80 IPO price in late 2005.
Along with a slight reversal in investors' pessimism on China following an expansion of the mainland's Purchasing Managers' Index in July, PRG's stock regained some positive traction to HK$3.52 last Friday, giving it a market capitalisation of HK$9.7 billion.
However, the European sovereign debt crisis, followed by concern of a growth deceleration in China sent PRG's stock spiralling down, along with other major retail players in the mainland such as Belle International Holdings Ltd, Golden Eagle Retail Group Ltd and Intime Retail (Group) Co Ltd to new lows.
Compared with other sectors, retail stocks in China had been among the most affected by concerns of a slowdown in the mainland's growth.
"That being the case, the bombed-out retail stocks could benefit from any slight improvement in sentiments on China," said a private investor avid in China.
Last Friday, PRG stock was up a further 7 Hong Kong cent or 2.03% despite Hong Kong and the Asia market being generally in the red, taking the cue from overnight Wall Street trading where sentiment was hit by fresh worries of a stimulus curb in the US.
Meanwhile, some funds have recently started to pick up shares in its Malaysia-listed parent PARKSON HOLDINGS BHD [ ] (PHB), which controls 51.2% of PRG. According to filings with Bursa Malaysia, Kumpulan Wang Persaraan (Diperbadankan) had purchased 527,000 shares in PHB towards end of July, slightly nudging up its holdings to 5.19%.
PHB has also initiated a share buyback exercise since the beginning of this year, with 3.87 million shares bought as at Aug 1. The shares buyback were carried out amid a 29.4% slide in its stock price year-to-date, to RM3.67 last Friday. PHB's stock movement is highly correlated to that of PRG's, as the latter contributed about 70% of its parent's revenue.
It is worth noting that PHB also owns a 67.6% stake in Singapore-listed Parkson Retail Asia Ltd (PRA), which essentially controls the Malaysian as well as Asean departmental store operations. Although PRA has been registering strong growth amid its expansion drives, its contribution to PHB still trails far behind that of PRG.
Nevertheless, while PRG's stock has shown some positive traction, challenges remain for the mainland departmental store operator, compared with some of its other rivals there.
"We continue to view PRG's fundamentals as worse than its peers' given its mature store portfolio (6.6 years vs. peers' 4.7 years in FY13), rising new store loss on the sector's trend of lengthening break even period, and low self-owned store property ratio (15% of store gross floor area in FY13)," wrote BOCOM International in a recent report.
BOCOM was however positive on PRG's rival Intime, calling a buy on the stock "justified by its above-peer growth (13% FY13-14E earnings per share CAGR-compounded annual growth rate versus peers' average of 6%), earnings quality improvement and fast transformation into the department store-plus-shopping mall model (estimated to account for 51% of total GFA in FY15E versus 25% in FY12)".
In a filing with the Hong Kong Exchange last Friday, PRG reported that total gross sales proceeds for the six months ended June 30, 2013 increased by 4.9% to RMB 8.98 billion (RM4.8 billion), while same store sales had dropped marginally by 0.7% from a year ago. However, net profit had dropped 38% to RMB 324.7 million.
The sharp drop in earnings last Friday may impact its stock's performance Monday. Still, PRG continues to sit on a strong balance sheet, with net cash of RMB 1.33 billion and a war chest of RMB 4.38 billion.
In its notes to account, PRG said it has been revamping and remodelling its existing flagship stores as part of  continuous efforts to enhance store image and improve productivity. "Such strategy has been generally successful with a majority of flagship stores showing noticeable improvement in its performance thereafter," it said.
"The group continued its expansion programme with two new stores opened in 1H2013 and is expected to open another five new stores before the end of the year. The group has also completed the acquisition of four managed stores from its parent company in February 2013 and terminated the management agreement of a managed store in Guizhou in March 2013," it said.
PRG further shared that it will continue its "refined expansionary strategy" with fewer but bigger new stores to be opened in existing markets or nearby cities to better utilise its advantageous positions.
This article first appeared in The Edge Financial Daily, on August 19, 2013.

yok70
post Aug 19 2013, 03:36 PM

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QUOTE(yhtan @ Aug 19 2013, 11:39 AM)
For the bold part, it only applicable for Malaysia market. AFAIK, mainland chinese still view Parkson as high class shopping mall
*
check this out. cool2.gif

http://www.theedgemalaysia.com/business-ne...t-research.html



This post has been edited by yok70: Aug 19 2013, 04:37 PM


Attached File(s)
Attached File  parkson_retail_hk_160813.pdf ( 561.56k ) Number of downloads: 18
wil-i-am
post Aug 22 2013, 05:49 PM

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They declare 9.5 sen special div rclxms.gif

cherroy
post Aug 22 2013, 10:40 PM

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Since it is a maiden dividend, I wonder can see any shareholders vote against the dividend or not. tongue.gif

Btw, the special dividend need to incur 25% tax?

This post has been edited by cherroy: Aug 22 2013, 10:47 PM
kinwing
post Aug 22 2013, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 22 2013, 10:40 PM)
Since it is a maiden dividend, I wonder can see any shareholders vote against the dividend or not.   tongue.gif

Btw, the special dividend need to incur 25% tax?
*
I won't oppose special dividend for the purpose of claiming the tax credit. I only oppose if the dividend was given the Board because they gave in under pressure of certain group of shareholders who cash for other purposes such as retirement instead of putting the money for long term investment.

This post has been edited by kinwing: Aug 22 2013, 11:10 PM
cherroy
post Aug 23 2013, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(kinwing @ Aug 22 2013, 10:59 PM)
I won't oppose special dividend for the purpose of claiming the tax credit. I only oppose if the dividend was given the Board because they gave in under pressure of certain group of shareholders who cash for other purposes such as retirement instead of putting the money for long term investment.
*
I taught dividend give no value.
Once the dividend being distributed, NAV drop accordingly.

Somemore, those at high tax bracket need to pay tax for the dividend received.
9 cents x 0.75 = 6.75 cents, shareholder only receive 6.75 cents (if those not eligible for claiming tax credit one, or at high tax bracket whereby illegible to claim fully )

While NAV will be deducted 9 cents due to dividend given.

Why give dividend then?

wil-i-am
post Aug 23 2013, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 22 2013, 10:40 PM)
Since it is a maiden dividend, I wonder can see any shareholders vote against the dividend or not.  tongue.gif

Btw, the special dividend need to incur 25% tax?
*
Special Dividend of 9.5 sen per share less Income Tax of 25% for the financial year ended 31 May 2013
wil-i-am
post Aug 23 2013, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 23 2013, 02:09 PM)
I taught dividend give no value.
Once the dividend being distributed, NAV drop accordingly.

Somemore, those at high tax bracket need to pay tax for the dividend received.
9 cents x 0.75 = 6.75 cents, shareholder only receive 6.75 cents (if those not eligible for claiming tax credit one, or at high tax bracket whereby illegible to claim fully )

While NAV will be deducted 9 cents due to dividend given.

Why give dividend then?
*
Not only NAV drop but price will b adjusted lower by 9 cents cry.gif
kinwing
post Aug 23 2013, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 23 2013, 02:09 PM)
I taught dividend give no value.
Once the dividend being distributed, NAV drop accordingly.

Somemore, those at high tax bracket need to pay tax for the dividend received.
9 cents x 0.75 = 6.75 cents, shareholder only receive 6.75 cents (if those not eligible for claiming tax credit one, or at high tax bracket whereby illegible to claim fully )

While NAV will be deducted 9 cents due to dividend given.

Why give dividend then?
*
I am not high tax bracket, so I do fine with the special dividend smile.gif. However, if those who are in the high tax bracket opposing distribution of dividend, I understand where they are coming from, so I would not qualm on their objection.
Boon3
post Aug 24 2013, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 23 2013, 02:09 PM)
I taught dividend give no value.
Once the dividend being distributed, NAV drop accordingly.

Somemore, those at high tax bracket need to pay tax for the dividend received.
9 cents x 0.75 = 6.75 cents, shareholder only receive 6.75 cents (if those not eligible for claiming tax credit one, or at high tax bracket whereby illegible to claim fully )

While NAV will be deducted 9 cents due to dividend given.

Why give dividend then?
This is a good issue to give it some thinking. tongue.gif

I feel that it all boils down to what prophetjul was saying. laugh.gif

QUOTE(prophetjul @ Aug 19 2013, 07:48 AM)
How very nice for TTB.......sitting on his rearend and STILL reaping off investors with his Manager's FEES.........

How very nice.
ICAP had been sitting on too big of a cash pile for a fund.

We can argue/disagree with the importance of cash in a fund.
Some view it as war chest which will be of great importance in a crash. (I accept this argument)
Some view it as a no-no because the cash is being wasted as it is doing nothing. As a fund, it has a duty to generate return for its cash and if the fund manager is sitting on his 'rearend and still reaping off its investors withs his 'mega' manager's FEES...' then there will be some disgrunted shareholders. (But when market is soaring and the fund is not doing anything, then the fund got it all wrong. )

To qualify what prophetjul statement best we check ourselves.
Screenshot of balance sheet the past 5 years. Data provided by klse tracker.

user posted image

Latest balance sheet shows cash balances has increased to 200 million. sweat.gif

As we can see the issue some have is ICapital is having too much un-invested cash.

As a fund, we have to gauge the fund manager and his investing decisions and in this instance, we need to gauge the fund's decision to sit on cash.
IE is the fund manager correct to sit on cash??

No matter what the fund manager view points, by not utilizing these cash, the fund managers is TELLING his shareholders that there's nothing better to invest in and Teng Boo had been sitting on a lot of cash since 2010.
In 2010, the CI started at 1272. This year the index reached a high of 1810.

Chart below:

user posted image

And iCap is sitting on excess cash during this period.


I know it's easy to critic and I feel like I am an armchair investor criticizing Teng Boo and his iCap fund but if I am going to be an investor of the fund, this type of critic/evaluation of him and his fund is needed.

How would I evaluate his fund decision to have excess cash and not putting the excess cash to use?

My evaluation would be I would grade it as fairly poor.

To check on the fees issue, I had to look at the annual report.

user posted image

Two type of fees charged upon the fund. tongue.gif
Fund management fee and investment advisory fee. (why two? rclxub.gif )
They have both increased in 2012 compared to previous year. ( Should I check how much fees were charged in 2008? tongue.gif )

From this perspective, I have to agree with prophetjul that Teng Boo is sitting on his 'rearend and still reaping off its investors withs his 'mega' manager's FEES...'

The closed end fund is sitting on excess cash for far too long and clearly it was the wrong decision with the market hitting new highs constantly during this period. The fund got it all wrong.

Did any shareholders even ask why the fund is sitting on excess cash when the market keeps on rising in the agm? Or are the shareholders simply fans of Teng Boo who believe he can't do no wrong?

By giving out dividends is not solving things exactly. tongue.gif
The NAV would be readjusted and then last but not least .... what then about Teng Boo's mega annual compounding projection for the fund?
That was his promise to his shareholders.
Would that promise be attainable now? tongue.gif

Questions indeed.



gark
post Aug 24 2013, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Aug 24 2013, 10:05 AM)
Two type of fees charged upon the fund. tongue.gif
Fund management fee and investment advisory fee. (why two?  rclxub.gif  )
They have both increased in 2012 compared to previous year. ( Should I check how much fees were charged in 2008? tongue.gif )

*
Wah Boon! you so 'rajin' today do homework hantam TTB ah?

1/2 of the fees is directly to TTB for him to manage the funds
1/2 of the fees is to Capital dynamics (which is owned by TTB) for research and advisory

But over the last 3 years he hardly moved his stock selection, except maybe buying coastal and sell within a couple of months for a small profit (trading for TTB? sweat.gif ) with some small nibbling in phamaniaga. Mostly he just sold... but he has a habit to holding on to losers like tongherr and parkson...

So what kind of research did Capital dynamics provide over the 5 years and 25 mil of fees? 2 counters? doh.gif

Anyway he is punishing himself also lar.. by giving out dividend, he lower his fees as it is based on NAV. laugh.gif

On the bright side, although his fund is not performing, but you can buy the underlying shares at 20% discount to market through the fund... drool.gif

I don't care about any stupid dividend, and fund/UT giving up dividend and incurring tax is not a wise move...so TTB is no longer following what he preach.

This post has been edited by gark: Aug 24 2013, 10:26 AM
Boon3
post Aug 24 2013, 10:33 AM

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QUOTE(gark @ Aug 24 2013, 10:19 AM)
Wah Boon! you so 'rajin' today do homework hantam TTB ah?

1/2 of the fees is directly to TTB for him to manage the funds
1/2 of the fees is to Capital dynamics (which is owned by TTB) for research and advisory

But over the last 3 years he hardly moved his stock selection, except maybe buying coastal and sell within a couple of months for a small profit (trading for TTB?  sweat.gif ) with some small nibbling in phamaniaga. Mostly he just sold... but he has a habit to holding on to losers like tongherr and parkson...

So what kind of research did Capital dynamics provide over the 5 years and 25 mil of fees? 2 counters?  doh.gif

Anyway he is punishing himself also lar.. by giving out dividend, he lower his fees as it is based on NAV.  laugh.gif

On the bright side, although his fund is not performing, but you can buy the underlying shares at 20% discount to market through the fund... drool.gif

I don't care about any stupid dividend, and fund/UT giving up dividend and incurring tax is not a wise move...so TTB is no longer following what he preach.
Not wind to talk so talk Teng Boo wind lor. laugh.gif

Agree very much with the very last statement you made. thumbup.gif


prophetjul
post Aug 26 2013, 08:31 AM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Aug 24 2013, 10:05 AM)
This is a good issue to give it some thinking. tongue.gif

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Questions indeed.
*
whatta writeup! thumbup.gif

NOW EVERYONE CAN be a FUN manager! rclxms.gif
wil-i-am
post Aug 26 2013, 10:23 AM

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All Unit Trust Management Co (approved by SC) charge fees
wil-i-am
post Aug 26 2013, 08:35 PM

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Down 3 cents n closed @ 2.37 today
0932
post Aug 26 2013, 11:55 PM

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i believe icap now is desperate. AGM is looming... shareholders are angry.... stock price underperfoming...hold too much cash....
i already sold most of icap..only hold a bit to hantam him during AGM.

Anyway, there are rumours that his dual listing is not successful, thus the dividend....let;s see if it is true.



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