Now I know where Snowball comes from commenting CD till the job thread.

The weekly magazine 'ICAP' is not belonged to icapital.ibz Berhad, instead it is under the fund management company, i.e. Capital Dynamics, who is the fund manager of icapital.biz Berhad.

I think the main reason of collecting fees for the weekly magazine by Capital Dynamics is to sustain the operation of the magazine since the magazine does not contain any advertisement, except for the advertisements for its own funds icapital.biz, ICAP Global Fund and ICAP Value Fund.

This post has been edited by kinwing: May 13 2011, 06:09 PM

Tan had already mentioned unless the discount is very deep like 40% to 50%, or else he won't consider to execute share repurchase. Anyway, i think if discount go up to 30% already can consider to share buy back loh, just a way giving out dividends to shareholders.

It should not go up, I have not bought enough

It's possible to liquidate the fund, but not so soon as ICAP has just recently extended its tenure. Maybe by end of 2020, ICAP may seek the shareholders to extend another term for the fund. However, by then Tan Teng Boo should be quite old already, so it would be possible shareholders may elect not to extend the fund.

By the way, the single largest shareholding of ICAP can only up to 20%, it is stated in its prospectus and memorandum article of association.

I do not think so as ICAP's assets are all short term assets and thus they are quite liquid to realise without having a hair-cut. Even if there would be a bear market to realise its investment portfolios, ICAP can always wait for the market to recover since it's investment objective is for long-term capital appreciation.

I will dead fighting to oppose for the distribution of dividend .

Who care about how the market sentiment on ICAP and how the market rate ICAP? Its investment objective has been stated very clearly that it's a value investing fund and the investment objective is for long term capital appreciation. Indeed we should have exploit the discount by buying more ICAP shares instead of trying to improve its share price.

Whoever who bought ICAP without realising its core value investing, I am sorry to say it's your own mistake so you have to swallow it, either by realise your lose or continue to keep the shares until end of its tenure. Whereby me would like to wait for another 8 years, and at that time when ICAP's NAV raise up to RM10, I will be glad to liquidate ICAP with my investment appreciated by 10 times at that moment.

Remember that the funds not only holding by those who may need dividend in short term, but also who don't need cash and instead want to invest cash for capital appreciation. Why should ICAP returns cash through dividend to me and that would harm the growth of NAV in long run? I will definitely oppose the idea of distributing dividend.

Yeah it's your call to sell so be it. I'm gladly I can continue to buy NAV at a discount of 20%, and with the kind of speed that NAV is growing at a CAGR of more than 18%, I'd be able to realise my investment at RM10 to RM12 in another 8 years at a cost of 20% cheaper, so my investment return would be at a CAGR of 20% in 2020.

"Grow NAV means no pressure to improve shareholder value" - this is a good joke I would like to LOL

"BH has never given dividends. Its all in the share price." - because Warrent Buffet and Tan Teng Boo believe dividend irrelavancy theory. Moreover, BH does not distribute dividend is to enjoy the time value of tax deferred.

It is highly speculative to say "One is using this to enlarge his wealth by fleecing in fees". So could I say you are a SOB because I think you are so fcuked up in your mind or you are a gay/bi-sex because I think you speak like one?

When Warren Buffet first setup his fund management partnerships, he charged fees even more gao like hedge fund, and worse Warren Buffet asked his partners to shut up from keep asking him what was the components and performance of his investment portfolio.

This post has been edited by kinwing: Aug 21 2012, 08:40 PM

You are slapping on your own face. On one side you want to cap the management fees by suggesting only compensate the fund manager on the appreciation, but the other side want to give a minimum RM500k guarantee management fee. So how about if TTB passed away in a freak accident (possible being assasinated since I observed alot basher against TTB here), and the successor so scroll up that the fund's NAV is going down every year till RM10 mil, so would you like to reward the FM at a 'minimum of RM500k' yearly?

Normally hedge fund will do that to get their compensation not only on the AUM by charging a lower management fees (0.5% to 1%) than the conventional (i.e. 1.5%), but they also charge 20% on the appreciation part instead of 10%, so what you think "this is the best practice for this kind of closed end fund" is your own illusion because no FM will do that. Why not you setup your own fund with this kidn of fee structure and if your fund is really that good, I will for sure support your idea with my own $:thumbs: .

Anyway you should buy 1 lot ICAP shares so to attend the AGM and raise your suggestion in the AGM instead of cowardly hiding here to bad mouth someone at the back, hope you won't be the laugh stock if TTB whacked your ass gaogao with his own twisted argument and hope you will well prepared to argue with him, and I will be waiting to watch good shows in the AGM coming soon .

"i would say he took more than WB" - True, I agree with you. But how many WB in this world? There is only one WB and I strongly disagree TTB is a match to WB even though he self-proclaimed ICAP was performing better than BH. Having said so, ICAP keep on its promise by doubling the NAV in 5 years and I am happy with that to reward the fund manager with the agreed rate? If those who does not agree, why not raise this in the 1st AGM to request for a lower fees or just avoid this counter at all in the beginning? Why now play like a prophet to teach how a FM to charge his fees when you are seeing this coming? Why not raise this issue in the beginning? In a chinese proverb, we called this the 'canon after the horse (马后炮)', showing that when one is trying to play a prophecy role but the fact is you can’t change it, so there’s no use bringing it up.

This post has been edited by kinwing: Aug 21 2012, 09:19 PM

Yes 'same' for all unit trusts but with different performance, please read between the line.

I can smell of jealousy about TTB is driving a good car and not somebody else.

TTB is not a saint which match to what Adam Smith mentioned that "... in Wealth of Nations, how the public got what they needed, and it wasn't usually through 'public service'. It was by appealing to the selfish interests of producers of food, clothing and shelter. i.e., by offering money in return.”...it's OK to be selfish and going after your self-interest which in turn maximise the welfare of the whole society. So ICAP does increase its NAV since inception at a CAGR of 18%, which beat the benchmark, and TTB gets his rewards as agreed, it's a win-win situation, why someone now so eye-sore?

So TTB could be self-interest of promoting his fund so he can drive porche, beemer or lotus, so what? He exchanges this with his performance for the fund. If anyone does not think so, why not I give you RM10 and you come to my home to wash my car for 2 hours?

Read ICAP's prospectus section 4.4 - life of the company which stated that "...Accordingly, the Articles of Association of icapital.biz contain provisions to the effect that at the annual general meeting to be held in the fifteenth (15th) year after the Company is listed on Bursa Securities and the Company has not been wound up, the Board shall, at the general meeting to be convened in the fifth (5th) year following the date of the annual general meeting provided the Company has not been wound up and subject to the SC Guidelines-CEF and any law then in force, propose an ordinary resolution that icapital.biz shall continue as a closed-end fund for a further period of five (5) years following the date of such general meeting..."

No, you are not discussing about fees, you are stepping on TTB by showing you are something, but I have a different opinion from yours. Instead of fighting back with a reasonable argument, you are labelling others who do not sagree with you, so be it.

I am a homnien so what? I can claim you are a troll as well. Yeah, just IGNORE you either, LOL

Yes I have interest in ICAP since its listing in October 2005 and am still accumulating it.

No I am not TTB .

If you buy at discount, you are earning more than 18% CAGR, indeed you are doing better than TTB .

Maybe or maybe not more discount, as ICAP is now holding 1/3 of its NAV in cash, which represents close to RM1 cash per share or 43% of its share price, so by right there is no more room for ICAP' price to drop more.

Having said so, since there is so many naive investors who are locked by 'mental accounting' mindset that 'one bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush' and requested a CEF to distribute cash back and so easily panic and affected by market sentiment, it is not surpurised ICAP price may drop if benchmark drops.

But I am more concern on the NAV, as long it does not drop more than the KLCI index (and I believe ICAP won't because it is holding close to RM140 million cash) then ICAP would be doing fine.

Yeah, you are making a value call , just take advantage as much as you could from those who sell .