No, I am not saying you are driven by majority consensus, I said your imagination is trying to drive the majority consensus, but it was found too weak and not convincing to affect the majority.

What sheep mentality? Are you sheep so giving sheep logic? Not paying dividend does not equate scam that to lead sheeple mentality but a choice. Just like people who choose to eat something or not to eat, it is a choice. And you have no ground to label choices that made by investors/consumers are sheeple mentality because they do not agree to your 'imagination'. Truth is always there regardless of how you labelling it as 'sheep' or not 'sheep'.

Btw, Genneva is not ALL right but ICAP is. At least ICAP is not raided by BNM. So this is another fantasy imagination. LOL

What made you so difficult about ICAP?
It is normal to for some years to yield better than other years. 
If u are not happy with TTB, management fee and ICAP performance, just leave this counter.

What for make nonsense argument!
Get it.

No, it's your concern about the exorbitant fees but I am looking at a bigger amount in long run which is well over to cover the fees by many times. So it's mutual opinion not only we are sheeple but you too.

If you are judging the fund base on the lower return happen these recent years and ignoring the out-performance that, so you are ignorance about fund management and have no idea what is Global Investment Performance Standard (GIPS) on how to judge a fund's performance base on their return since inception.

From a fund management point of view, we always look at the return since inception. While fund might perform well, it will always face trough period some other time and its performance may not up to market. However, it will eventually pick up base on the how consistent of the fund manager. As I have mentioned before, if ICAP has performed 50% better than you in the previous years, it will always be better than you even if you are outperfomring ICAP by 3% every year in the next 10 years. So it's you not getting it.

You also try to belittle the performance of ICAP base on share price, not its NAV is another joke. By the way, you are also so unintelligent to assume that investors will buy at ICAP at a very high price and eventually hold the share until today so they are making bad return in terms of share price, but you never consider if I am buying at discount and wait till I can get back NAV in 8 years later, I'll get a return that would even better than the return of CAGR 18% by the fund manager. No wonder you can't make money from simple investment like ICAP. HAHA:D, I just want to laugh at your  face.

LOL, another unwise comment. I was not telling that you need ICAP to make money for you, I was saying you could make money from ICAP from its discount. So it's you so unsmart to understand what I said .

So silly to pay TTB Rm6 mil for buying a dicsount?   

Is it confirmed that iCap will liquidate in 2020? If that's the case, you can consider it as your kids' education fund. (Assuming that they will be in the higher education 7 or 8 years later.)
I'm only worried if TTB wants to earn manager's fees indefinitely.

A good value posting.
Sad to say is disappointing that we cannot have a good discussion without ego getting in the way.

prophetjul, I have small issue with the numbers you have posted.
ICAP was listed on 17/10/2005.
Its NAV on 20/10/2005 was 0.99.
Its 2012 Annual report was dated 12/9/2012.
NAV on 13/9/2012 was 2.93.
That's a CAGR of 16.77% since listed.

Not sure how you got the CAGR of 18%.
Also in maths, when one compounds for many years, the slightest variance in the growth rate would see a drastic different result.

Here's an assumption that ICAP can grow at CAGR of 16.77% till 2020.

        year NAV
2005 0.99 === icap NAV when it was listed
1 2006 1.156023
2 2007 1.349888057
3 2008 1.576264284
4 2009 1.840603805
5 2010 2.149273063
6 2011 2.509706155
7 2012 2.930583878 === where we are now.
8 2013 3.422042794
9 2014 3.995919371
10 2015 4.666035049
11 2016 5.448529127
12 2017 6.362247461
13 2018 7.429196361
14 2019 8.67507259
15 2020 10.12988226 === NAV of ICAP by 2020.

A NAV of 10.13 by 2020?
Possible? We will get to that later.

This is a CAGR of 18%.

        year  NAV
2005 0.99
1 2006 1.1682
2 2007 1.378476
3 2008 1.62660168
4 2009 1.919389982
5 2010 2.264880179
6 2011 2.672558611
7 2012 3.153619162 === if ICAP compounded at 18% since inception, its NAV would have been 3.15!
8 2013 3.721270611
9 2014 4.391099321
10 2015 5.181497198
11 2016 6.114166694
12 2017 7.214716699
13 2018 8.513365705
14 2019 10.04577153
15 2020 11.85401041 === NAV of ICAP by 2020!!

A NAV of 11.85 if ICAP compounded at 18% since inception!!!

Where is ICAP NAV headed?
CAN ICAP grow at the SAME CAGR for the next 8 years?
ICAP 2012 annual report had some interesting points.

From page 4.
1. "There are no purchases made since 31 May 2011.. "
2. "For the financial year ended 31 May 2012, your Fund sold 4,400 shares of Boustead Holdings
Berhad, 383,000 shares of Fraser & Neave Holdings Berhad, 350,000 shares of Integrax Berhad
and 300,000 shares of Petronas Dagangan Berhad. These sales generated realised gains of
RM8.329 million with a cost of RM3.647 million."
3. In the year ending 31 May 2012, your Fund received 113,800 shares of Pharmaniaga Berhad from
Boustead Holdings Berhad on the basis of one Pharmaniaga share for every 57.5 ordinary shares of
RM0.50 held in Boustead.

My interpretation (this is mine, what's yours? )
Teng Boo is a proclaimed value investor who believes that one should let the power of compounding works for the investor.
But for the fiscal year, Teng Boo, sold or take profit a portion of the fund's stake in several stocks and bought nothing.
My interpretation is that he sees no value in the current market since he bought nothing.
And that he took profit by selling a small portion of the fund's holding on F&N and Petronas Dagangan suggests to me he thinks the stock value is rich and is a good time to take profit.
Which means I thinks he wants to build a war chest to buy stocks once they fall lower.

In the fund's current portfolio at 12/9/12, the following stocks carries the most value.
Petronas Dagangan - 51 million
Padini - 46.5 million
Parkson - 41.8 million
F&N - 41 million
Boustead - 36.3 million

This 5 stocks carries a value of 216.6 million.
ICAP total stock value at 12/9/12 is 269 million. (all this info from page 37)
Cash is 133 million. (page 26)

To say ICAP compound at 18% since listing until 2020, says that ICAP should be around 11.85.
ICAP NAV value now is 2.93.
How many percent increase from 2.93 to 11.85? 
With the current stocks ICAP have and its cash position, can Teng Boo do it?

A: The stock is performing well or having sterling performance since inception, and traded at discount, and the stock is ABC fund itself, so since ABC holding plenty of cash, why not ABC bought its own share, as it is a undervalued stock that traded below 20-30%? Isn't it fund can make even more money and objective is to buy undervalued stock?
Also isn't it ABC fund/stock itself had magnificent performance and perform well? 
So isn't it, it is a good target to invest by the fund?

I: ........

NO GUARANTEES...... yet Mr. TTB said that as IF............ 

“My 18% growth which I have built up may be gone. Our NAV has gained 189% since listing or 18% per annum. At such a rate, in seven years time, it would be RM8.78. We give consistent long-term returns,”

To me price does not matter. I look forward on the NAV to hit RM8.78 instead of share price .

LOL, that's your view and I have my own dream .

Makes a lot of sense there! And if one would like to not feel the pain of "discounting" of NAV to stock price of the CEF, then, one can also mirror TTB's holdings on these!

i think i agree with bryan, icap doesn't give dividends, its volume is low, low liquidity will certainly affects its stock price. Everyone knows its NAV is higher than its stock price, but who wants to push the stock price to match its NAV??

Provided you can trust Tan teng BOO! 's judgement!

Trust him to say :  "  ......Our NAV has gained 189% since listing or 18% per annum. At such a rate, in seven years time, it would be RM8.78. We give consistent long-term returns,”

Its no longer 18% pa...............its 25%! 

   

On behalf of the Board of icapital.biz Berhad, we wish to announce that the Net Asset Value per share of icapital.biz Berhad as at 31 July 2013 was RM2.96.

icap only discount 19%, holding mostly midcap, so not consider cheap loh for midcap valuation. Now there are lots of midcaps trading at above 30% discount to FV.
ttb is just too conservative and too lazy to deal with icap malaysia. His holding has been minimum movement for more than 3 years now, still wait for another 5 years until world economy stabilize only want to make big move?
the cash holding is now above 50% is it?
however, for those who "do not like to loss money", icap seems like a good choice. it's quite hard to loss money i think after monitoring its NAV movement vs market up/down.

The stocks that icap currently holding are not trading at low PE.
I'd 11 stocks that icap holding on my list, the PE are 33, 24, 19, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9 and net loss (MSC).
none of them are close to average small-mid cap stocks at 6-8x.

This is a good issue to give it some thinking.



Questions indeed.

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