As suggested by above post, I should not invest if need the money without having to wait for 15 years, isn't suggest I shouldn't liquidate and get the money?
If gives dividend, yes there is no guarantee it will close the gap between market price and NAV, but it may close the gap, not the like 20+%.

It is your opinion to say that minor holder don't follow NAV. I am a minor holder, but I strictly follow NAV, so your comment here is clueless to the serious long term investors.

Which type of company's NAV is more realisable? Of a fund management or a metal trading company? For your information, a fund management company can be easily realised due to its short term nature of holding cash and equities investment, and furthermore ICAP's NAV composes of 33% of cash. This indicates that ICAP's NAV is more realisable and thus its share price should be on par to the NAV, otherwise it is undervalued.

BTW, firee818's prices in year Oct 07 and Oct 08 are derived from the average compounding rate of 18%, so they not similar to the actual price of which a 'big plunge' in year 08 and 09. However, your message of 'BIG plunge' may mean negative to you but that was a positive movement to me because I could accumulate more ICAP shares at that moment and when the ICAP price bounced back later from the low RM1.5 in year 2009 to today RM2.32 up to date, so I have indeed made a CAGR return of more than 20% in 3-year time

I also swear this 'troll' also on IgNoRe

"PM MINER/Exploration Investment Company = ICAP?
For miners, there is also the VERY BIG opportunity?
prices are unlocked in takeovers"

The abovementioned are you own perception. I have a different opinion because MINER/Exploration is risky that the investment in the exploration may not find anything in the shit hole, so 50% discount to NAV would be fair until the MINER/Exploration really does find something in physical. Having said so, the metal trading company may still worth a value buy if it really that cheap in 50% discount to its NAV . To me, a good company may not be a good buy if it is very expensive and a bad company may be a good buy if it is very cheap (assume you can buy some listed underdog companies at RM1).

Again, "33% CASH sounds like ROE will be pretty bad" just reflects that you have a very short sight and thus a short term investment tenure. Whereby I am looking at a different angle that with 67% long position in equities, ICAP still can deliver a decent return, then it would be doing even better if it turns more of its cash in equities.

Btw, I do not see how I am contradicting myself from before like 15 years time or so? As I mentioned, I am a strict value follower (i.e.NAV). I am going for value not the price. Value is what I get and price is what I pay. If I would be getting X amount which is at least similar if not more than the NAV by liquidating the fund now, or get Y amount which is similar if not than the NAV in year 15, I can accept both.

Yeah, you have one pet stocks went from $3 to $40 and I have few of which I got from valued buy went up to 10 times as well, so that wouldn't something that great. Or both we just bluff anyway, it's a cyber world, I don't know you and you don't know me, either you and I is not telling the whole story.

I don't think kinwing is contradicting.

He said he can accept if ICAP liquidates now and if he can get back almost equal to the value of NAV i.e. RM3.04(which mean he will get about 18% compound growth).

OR

He will also accept if ICAP liquidates in 8 years later (15 year life start from Year 2005) and get back his investment @ around 18% compound growth (assume ICAP can do so).

His aim is to get  xx% compound growth and he is achieving it  in either way, that is what he meant.

Some companies can do so, but only a few....if you can strike one, that is your ability/luck...

You have good analyse on miners, that is your ability.
You have good timing on entry point.

So, right now, you have to make decision...
You want to realize the profit now OR you are waiting for better timing to exit.

I have found out, it is more easy to buy, i.e. buy when stock crash. e.g. Year 2008 stock crash, KLSE index = 800 points.
But, it is difficult to determine the exit point.
So, now I put forward a critical question to you:-
Is it the best time to exit now, take into consideration that  Dow Jones is at 13100 (Year 2008 =8000 points) and KLSE index = 1650 points.

You want to sell now or later? Which ones is more favorable?

BTW, if stock crash tomorrow and you haven't sold, then you can't get 20% CAGR for Twas/your mining co.

By writing this sentence,  you need to think carefully what the hell you are going to talk ICAP in ICAP thread?

Are you contradicting yourself ?
OR
Are you jealous about ICAP performance ?
OR
Are you trolling here and express your anger ?

It is not like discussion.

Congratulation!
Your stock investment return is better than ICAP, but it still cannot be considered as success.

My definition of success is consistency.
You need to get very good return for a prolonged period e.g. compound  return of 15% p.a. for over 10 years

No matter what the stock condition, bloom time, doom time, downturn, crash and etc, and if you are able to maintain at an average of xx% compound growth p.a. for over xx years, then you are success.

For me, my benchmark of return is an average compound growth of 15% for over 10 years.
It you can achieve that, then ICAP is irrelevant to you anymore!

BTW, if u can get a compound growth of 15% in your stock investment for a prolonged period, then u are also considered as one of the most successful investors in the world.

Here is compound return of 15% p.a. for 11 years with initial capital of RM 100,000

Year 1 RM 100,000
Year 2 RM 115,000
Year 3 RM 132,250
Year 4 RM 152,088
Year 5 RM 174,900
Year 6 RM 201,135
Year 7 RM 231,306
Year 8 RM 266,000
Year 9 RM 305,902
Year10 RM 351,787
Year 11 RM 404,555

My definition of success is 15% compound growth for over 10 years.
And Icap performance now is compound growth of 18% and now it is 7th year listed in KLSE.
I should say ICAP performance is still within its path.

I may not know whether ICAP can achieve that or not, even TTB. But I m very confidence and delighted of what he has done till now, dude.

Every one will has his/her own definition of success in investment.
I had emphasized that it is my own definition.

Of course, Ali Bapa will be his own definition of success in investment  @ 3% p.a.

Now, I know why someone here talk to u like that!

For stock investment, I rely on ICAP, I can't do it myself!

prophetjul: Impressive! Well done with your investments. 

From a FM point of view, ICPA is judged at NAV, not by some Tom, d*** or Harry's standard on the share price movement.

Can't liquidate ICAP for 18% presently will only give you the problem, not to me and other long term investors.

Of course, I can liquidate anytime with cost @ RM 1.15, haha, better than your performance lor!, dude!

I also don't know if it won't give 'long' term investors problem, so I don't generalise facts like you that illiquidity will give 'everyone' problem which could your own perception. For me, I will take the illiquidity risks by enjoying the illiquidity premium.

No, I am not interested to read your sig. You have your own fantasy, I have mine .

QUOTE(kinwing @ Aug 24 2012, 03:03 PM)
From a FM point of view, ICPA is judged at NAV, not by some Tom, d*** or Harry's standard on the share price movement.

Can't liquidate ICAP for 18% presently will only give you the problem, not to me and other long term investors.

No interest about your investment.
It is only a keyboard warrior boosing about his investment return.

Win or lose, what finally you get, keyboard warrior?

QUOTE(firee818 @ Aug 24 2012, 03:09 PM)
Of course, I can liquidate anytime with cost @ RM 1.15, haha, better than your performance lor!, dude!

Good luck, keyboard warrior!

Agreed on that. A lot of awkward silent moments.

No, he is talking his NAV.

The thing is TTB may not be that rich .

Until the recent takeover bid by Laxey, TTB was more concerned about managers' fees than stake. After all, the stock was traded at discount to the NAV, and investors were never paid dividend. In a sense, TTB was 99% manager, and 1% owner.

But he may have changed his mind now. Let's see 

Maybe your fantasy imagination makes yourself to think that seems everyone is listening to what you said but the result of the vote told otherwise. So what your said had no weight in the ICAP's AGM meeting. LOL