that's the flaw for ICAP, no matter bull or bear market, he still earn that fee
actually it should be the percentage on how much wealth he created for the shareholder.

Basically my suggestion is:-
year 2008 NAV is RM1, year 2009 NAV is RM1.50
His management fee should be calculated on RM0.50 which he earn for the shareholder, let say RM0.05 (10%) would be his management fee, and to protect his interest during bear market, a mininum of RM500k is guarantee management fee.

I would say this is the best practice for this kind of closed end fund.

How much TTB took from Icap and WB took from BK?
percentage wise i would say he took more than WB

True enough

Management fee paid to TTB & Co of Icap in 2011 = ~ RM 5 million
Salary paid to WB of BK in 2011 = RM 300,000 (USD 100K)

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Added on August 7, 2012, 11:59 amThat is the same for all unit trust as well right? But everyone also buy...

This post has been edited by gark: Aug 7 2012, 11:59 AM

do u know what ride TTB currently owned?

That's why i still reluctant to invest in unit trust, no matter lose or gain also has to pay them money, i don't feel comfortable with that.
Of course there is some outstanding fund, maybe 1 out of 10, or lesser

Rumor says he got lotus sports car, Ferrari & BMW 7 series... but don't know true or not. But with that kind of salary, I am not surprised.

Totally agree!

They should be paid on the increase in shareholder value.

Imagine stock price at Rm1, he gets paid Rm5m.

stcok price is stagnant at Rm1, he STILL gets paid Rm5m. Wheres the rationale?

Thats why i dont bother with UTs.

WB bought a Buick a few years ago - just to show support to the troubled car-maker GM.
He bought a 5-room house back 1958, and still lives there...

ICAP's NAV reached RM3.04 but current market price is RM2.30!

Anyone buying or still keeping the bullets dry?

Personally, i'm waiting for more "discount" - remember, it may be a looooooooong value trap
+ KLCI has been hitting new highs SEVERAL TIMES this month (irrational?)
+ gawd knows what will happen on GE (NAV may plummet?).

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 17 2012, 09:52 AM

when CI bottom and everyone fears that time, and if ICAP got above 26%(past few years discount range is 22%-27%) discount to NAV, then i'll start accumulate it.

Hi there, Wong! Wow, you've been promoted to Elite status. Congrats!
Anyway, back to the essence of this topic. It is indeed a looooooooong discount period, since 2008. I bought some at an average price of RM1.55 when the economy tanked. I think if this discount period prolong till the GE is over or until end of next year; I'll dispose all shares. However, I'll hold them if the return reaches 15%.

PS: Are you an owner or a secret admirer of ICAP?


not trying to be a smart alec, but how do you know when the CI hits bottom?

Gutten morgan HJebat.
Elite? Thanks - just trying to add value & help fellow financial freedom seekers avoid stupidities i hit squarely on the head before

Nah, i'm definitely not a secret admirer of Mr. TTB.
I admire the quiet, simple and value-adding life of the old Mr. WB and the likes, thus Mr. TTB's "style" is a bit "lebih" for me to admire

I just aim to buy ICAP on the similar principle of "severe lelong" as some of my filtered stocks & unit trust/mutual funds
Thus far, i'm making net about 11.97% if disposed now, bought end Dec 2011/early Jan2012, thanks to uncle (i'm sure he's either older or bloody more knowledgeable ) Gark's postings and discussion on ICAP.
I'm just worried about the comparatively low daily volume averaging low-ish 60K+ (ignoring recent 0.61M+/- spike) if/when i want to dispose.. er.. not like i'm holding millions of units lar

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 18 2012, 08:51 AM

Wong Sifu,

It is Time to start yr own Cap Fund which can generate 50% return a year or more.

No point to criticize others because each of us have different risk levels.

Often it is Easy to tembak a conservative and lower risk fund for not performing ?

And there are many good earning companies out there trading well below their NTA , nothing is wrong, except u may want to sapu more than to be a Nato.

Regards

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Aug 18 2012, 09:25 AM

Companies trading below NTA does not mean anything per se.

Theres a differnce between earning companies and the likes of ICAP which essentially is like a UT fund.

For normal companies with tangible products, you need the earnings to be sure.
They can be trading below NTA but have poor earnings.....doesnt do much good for their stock price.
UNLESS you wanna do a GO and strip the assets to release their values...........

No sifu here, just a average Joe investor.
Eh? when i criticize anyone ar? Bro - U speedread too fast izzit?
All i stated in my post is that i admire personal characteristics like WB, not the flashy TTB style. Easy to tembak what ar?
OR
U mean that when i stated it may be a looooooong value trap = tembak?
Seriously lor, i didn't mean it as a tembak, it's a statistical fact that from 2008 as what HJebat shared.
OR
the average daily volume i stated, which is ALSO a statistical fact, not tembak wor.
I'm just looking at statistics.

Just because many companies are market PRICED below their NTA doesn't mean they are good value.
I'm sure you know more than enough that there are other variables & parameters to screen/filter for mar, right or right?

Wah - U see me too high leh, 50%pa or more returns & start my own fund? Yar yar - i know you're being cynical. Please focus your cynicism at the right place / person lor as I seriously have no idea which toe i stubbed of yours

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 18 2012, 10:09 AM

I am saying good earning cum low NTA or Price/Book like Affin.

U just break two and talk separately , where got meaning one

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Added on August 18, 2012, 10:12 amI doubt WB talks about low volume of transactions when he buys

Volume is never be part of FA analysis anyway, more towards TA.

And it can be called " herd behavior " aka following people backside.

BTW WB buys real estates in US where people shun, so where is the volume talk ?

Where got many leaders like WB in the market , and less followers in the market ?

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Aug 18 2012, 10:16 AM

AND i am just clarifying the discussion on NTA here in ICAP thread.

For good earnings companies, NTA does not really matter unlees you thinking of GO

Not necessary one, Capital Repayments could benefit shareholders for high NTA stocks.

Could be special dividends too if cashflow allows.

Cap repayments are rare especailly Msian stocks.......the major shareholder will do a GO
and pay himslef first......

I hope more people would think like the ways u think.

If like reits where everyone knows inside out , than susah for some of us to cari makan.

Regards

er.. Sky.. U comprehend the meaning when i said i admire "personal characteristics" of WB, not TTB?
I'm not stating that WB's methodologies are the one and end all.

Yes, i do look at volume as well for certain investments or trades - liquidity purposes. U do know that volume can also be a measure of liquidity right?
One may have the bestest value kaka (to one) but if no one else even regards it as valuable for several decades, thus..?
It depends on one's reason for acquiring such kaka mar right?

So, is that a vile wrong even if i do admire WB more than TTB, to look at volume (and even Bollinger bands) for certain assets?

BTW, what has WB buying real estates in US where people shun + volume = herd behaviour, aka following people's backside
gotta do with ICAP or the stuff i posted here or anywhere else in LYN?

I really don't understand where U are coming from at all. Care to share the thorn or real issue to be discussed?
Or are U just having a fun time befuddling me?

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 18 2012, 10:23 AM