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 ICAP, traded price higher than NAV

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river.sand
post Aug 1 2012, 09:23 AM

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What factors should we consider before putting money in closed-end fund like iCap, other than NAV?

Is dividend important? AFAIK, iCap hasn't given any dividend yet.

river.sand
post Aug 1 2012, 05:39 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 1 2012, 05:07 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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QUOTE(gark @ Aug 1 2012, 05:25 PM)
Icap is a closed end fund, there will be no dividend until the shareholders argees to dissolve & delist the fund. Those getting for quick gain might be dissapointed and have to wait for the longer term, that is why it is not so popular.  wink.gif
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Thanks smile.gif

No dividends? So it completely depends on whether somebody is willing to buy my shares at higher price. Then I must think carefully before entering hmm.gif
river.sand
post Aug 2 2012, 08:32 AM

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QUOTE(gark @ Aug 1 2012, 08:24 PM)
NAPS is not accurate for ETF and Closed fund. You have to look at NAV, which is currently at RM 0.856. So CIMBC25 is currently trading at slight premium.  laugh.gif
NAPS is NAV per share mah... You and WMK are talking about the same thing. But I notice that the info on Excelforce is often not up-to-date. It is better to check Bursa Malaysia website for latest info, e.g. this one announced on July 26...
http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed...cements/1021109

For PE values of other stocks, I usually do my own calculation rather than relying on Excelforce.

river.sand
post Aug 6 2012, 09:08 AM

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So we are betting that Lexey Partners will 'make things happen'.

But what if things never happen in 10 years, and the NAV increases at 5% annually hmm.gif
river.sand
post Aug 7 2012, 09:07 AM

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QUOTE(gark @ Aug 6 2012, 06:26 PM)
Recently there are already substantial shareholders... both the same entity and combined already command 12%... so these new shareholders will want to pressure for unlocking some value.. but depend on how TTB will resist. These substantial shareholders will first want to get a seat at the board, even if you hold many % but no board seat also no use as you can't propose resolution.  wink.gif

The more dividend given out, TTB will lose more income as he charges 1.5% of NAV as management fee.  whistling.gif That is why he does not give out dividend, he is stuck as a closed end fund cannot receive new capital hence cannot grow it's AUM  like most mutual funds, if want to earn more, TTB have to increase the NAV. laugh.gif By giving out dividend the NAV will shrink accordingly, hence pay cut for TTB.  rclxms.gif
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Sorry not familiar with close end fund...
iCap can't issue new shares/units like REITs?

This post has been edited by river.sand: Aug 7 2012, 09:08 AM
river.sand
post Aug 7 2012, 02:16 PM

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QUOTE(gark @ Aug 7 2012, 01:21 PM)
Rumor says he got lotus sports car, Ferrari & BMW 7 series... but don't know true or not.  drool.gif But with that kind of salary, I am not surprised.  laugh.gif
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WB bought a Buick a few years ago - just to show support to the troubled car-maker GM.
He bought a 5-room house back 1958, and still lives there...

river.sand
post Nov 10 2012, 09:40 PM

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QUOTE(tohff7 @ Nov 10 2012, 08:34 PM)
Told you guys so lol
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So we will see panic selling on Monday whistling.gif
river.sand
post Nov 12 2012, 08:40 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Nov 12 2012, 12:50 PM)
Yes, inclusive.
Based on latest Q report,
it has 130+ million cash, so translate about near Rm1.00 cash per share.

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So iCap can't give 5 sen/share dividend? hmm.gif
river.sand
post Nov 16 2012, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Nov 16 2012, 09:56 AM)
I have a suggestion, right issue or private placement at NAV by then can raise the fund to 150 to 200 million, Fund has extra cash for long term investing, while T can subscribe those private placement or right issue as well, in return has more stake.
Benefit
1. Has better control stake, prevent vulture short term investor to have bigger say.
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Until the recent takeover bid by Laxey, TTB was more concerned about managers' fees than stake. After all, the stock was traded at discount to the NAV, and investors were never paid dividend. In a sense, TTB was 99% manager, and 1% owner.

But he may have changed his mind now. Let's see whistling.gif
river.sand
post Nov 16 2012, 03:11 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Nov 16 2012, 02:47 PM)
So silly to pay TTB Rm6 mil for buying a dicsount?    wink.gif


Added on November 16, 2012, 2:48 pm
AND wait another 7 years ti realise the discount?  BRILLIANT!    rclxms.gif
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Is it confirmed that iCap will liquidate in 2020? If that's the case, you can consider it as your kids' education fund. (Assuming that they will be in the higher education 7 or 8 years later.)
I'm only worried if TTB wants to earn manager's fees indefinitely.
river.sand
post Nov 17 2012, 09:59 PM

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So much has been said about NAV - especially by TTB's supporters. But unless the fund liquidate, what matters is the stock price...

QUOTE(prophetjul @ Nov 16 2012, 12:01 PM)
Next, in terms of share price performance, Icap’s return of 12.6% per year for the entire period is not much better than that of the return of the market of about 12.0%. For those who bought athe peak price in 2008.....ahem....you have yet to see the price back at its High.. The share price on 2nd November 2012 is 10% below then, or at a loss of 2% pa. During the same period, return of KLCI was 6% a year. This means the share price of icap underperformed the market by huge 8% per year.
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If you buy all the components shares of the KLCI, in exactly the same proportions, not only your capital appreciates, but you also get dividend. When dividend is taken into account, ICAP underperforms the market by an even larger margin.


 

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