Yesterday i just heard my friend said pandan indah got a cafe called island red cafe, like oldtown style restaurant, now got 4 branches in malaysia, they're melaka, penang, puchong & pandan indah. It is doing mlm way like recruiting more member to join then got commission. He said only need to invest RM6000 then enjoy every month 5% fixed guarantee return without recruiting any members.

Any guys here heard of this?

What is the product or service offered?

Sounds like a pyramid scheme.

I think it is same method follow sunshine empire.

I thought I did replied on this post earlier.

Well, it seems like a partnership to me where all the people become shareholders by investing RM 6k. When another sum of money accumulated, another new outlet establishing.. yes?

Yes, but it can't mention as shareholders, unless my name got listed inside the company license.

i think they mean you invest 6k, and every month they return you 5% of the 6k(RM300). but.. for how long? that means, probably after they return your capital, probably gonna have trouble paying out anymore or will depend on business situation. i wont call this as "investment.."

This post has been edited by jong52yuara: Jan 19 2008, 03:00 PM

If biz not good, food not tasty, that mean no biz, so will they still have 5% give us? I don't think so.

i eat there last time, food not very good, this kind of business have to many competition already and they dont have anything special about their franchise.

OK, this type of company cannot be trusted. Why? I'll explain. Maybe it's not logic and it's possible but please hear me out first.

Getting fixed 5% back per month = 60% return on capital per year. So, by Q4 of 2nd year, your total capital is back.

The question is :
Will you ever get back your capital? Can the cafe itself survive the long run in a first place??

2nd thing, I think the manager of this cafe is a bit rush. I think he want his "cafe" to be listed in Bursa Saham or what. Getting member like MLM method. As after you had invest, you're like part of the "shareholder"

Possible things to happen was :
- Getting good respond. Owner become greedy and run away with all the money. 6K per person. Imagine there's 1k person investing. that's make a total of 6 million in his hand. Don't even mention the whole Malaysia. He can run to other countries... Believe it.

Lastly, There's no such free lunch in this world. Not even "cafes"

"Guaranteed" returns on your investment aye?
Alright, lets do the maths here:

100% / 5% = 20 months

So basically, you have 20 months to breakeven, and whatever after is profit.
This sounds good, IF it works always.
As you said, this will depend on the profit they are able to generate from that RM6000.
If their business goes downhill, then there will be no return.
Should consider carefully before committing to anything

Don't ever trust this business.

If they term it as shareholders, get your name listed as shareholders or partners in registrar of of business or companies.

get the whole document of terms and condition posted here and we can start talking....

Red Island Cafe...never heard before
but if is J.Co, i'm sure everyone will rush to invest on it

Even J.Co biz model doesnt guarantee a success. Unlike McD. The donut is very much competitive, there's so many donut in the market. You dont and wont see J.Co open as much stores as McD because they are catering another segment of market which tends to spend more on food. Because of that, they dont need to open up as much franchise stores as the other did.

Hi..

Do you have the web site and information about the Red Island Cafe ?

They even don't have website now.

hmmm if u are listed as shareholder also .. its not public listed .. so if the company go bust we are liable for the liabilities .. no ? ...

Yes... Heard of this. And the owner as well as the person who start of this plan is my friend. But then, now just had 1 outlet. Puching opening soon. Melaka and JB still looking for places. Their target is 100 outlets this year. Sound ridiculous.

They are kind of cafe which like oldtown offering food and beverages.

True. Rm6k considered 1 unit. When they successfully accumulate 50unit, then 1 new outlet will be open.

As what my friend told me. The name got listed inside. But i wonder.

5% is just pay for 1st 2 years, thereafter till the 5th years, is just 2.5% monthly. Their contract of paying is for 5 years. After 5 years, is sharing profit with the company as 51%/49%. In RM but will be credited to your so called e-wallet which u can use to ex-change as Food voucer or withdraw it out. On top of that, monthly will give you Rm100 Food voucer to eat at this cafe.

True, the owner wanted to get listed in share market and expand to oversea market as what been told.

True. No free lunch in this world. Rm6000 is not a small amount.

But today this kind of restaurant quite competitive, it is not easy to get more customer, because many of them will still choose oldtown, unless island red more famous than oldtown and the food is better than oldtown, or else your money become water. If the food very special & tasty still can consider.

It is not easy to be listed in share market, 5 yrs is impossible to be listed, as you can see now big mlm company like lampe berger, i still remember year 2004 they told me 2005 will be listed in share market but until now i still can't see its footprint in the KLSE or HSI. So far only amway, usana, nuskin and so on were listed on the NYSE share market of coz their company already more than 10 years.

Anyway, as you said our name got listed in the company license so RM6K can make a try but as your comfortable investment. If lose you can't blame. I'm not talking negative on this company but as what i saw in company sunshine empire, they always got huge seminar to attract ppl to invest but finally their promise return become lower & lower, coz not enough money to laudering and finally you will see the return not enough to share the profit to the investor, just like a company EMPAY, starting was very good return but finally you need to do recruitment only got return.

I stayed in Penang...

can I know where can i go and try the food in Island Red Cafe? Where did this restaurant located? I wan to go and have a try...

I think penang coming soon, not yet open since melaka, puchong and jb also coming soon as what Felice821 told.

ic ..

ok... I will plan to prepare some question about this biz.. Looks interesting. When they come to PG, so, i will sure be approach by the agent. Will like and keen to find out more... and will share with you all. Tq for the info.

never heard of it......

so many mlm nowaday

seems great from the returns....i heard something similar too but this is Stevens Corners "StevensTeaGarden" projection for 100 stg cafes too..200% Return Of Investment + free food vouchers......anyone heard about this before? can PM me for i'm a bit interested also.......heheheheh

They wont pay u after they pay the first few 5%.

is it?? is that wat happen to you? wat happened really?

How interesting. Does someone have the address of this Red Island Cafe?

Does someone have the name of the owner / promoter of this Red Island Cafe?

The Securities Commission of Malaysia would love to have a chat with him / her, I am sure

TS, are you telling us your experience at the cafe or you are one part of the MLM pretending to be a bystander, as we know MLM is not allowed here !!

yeah they don't really welcome to promote MLM here...dunno why?

---

Added on April 17, 2008, 6:56 pmfren,
how we can we access infos on whether the company is authorize by sc / bnm for MLM like this IRC

This post has been edited by siliconwiper.com: Apr 17 2008, 06:56 PM

I frm penang.Yesterday jus have 1 day trip to KL and tried their (island red cafe) food and listen their presentation. Not bad, as it is transparent, legal, got physical assets, you can check their business doing good or not by visit their restaurant...

FYI,they told me if you decide to invest then will sign an agreement, black n white through lawyer firm. So your name are listed in the company, if i dint heard wrongly ( will double confirm). In agreement , its says if the company loss or close, the shareholder wont bear any liability, but the company are responsible to sell whole assets(shop,kitchen,table,etc) and return the fund to us.

and the payout only 5 yrs, 1st 2 yrs is 5% per month plus rm100 vouchure (for each lot) monthly for u to eat/treat your frens there. So thats a tactic for them to have loyal customer also.

after 2 yrs... i forgot the payout scheme^^haha...but i remember total 5 yrs later,estimate will get ard times 3 of ur fund, cuz lastly it will get 49% of their ROI and devide for all shareholders...so got limit lot size oso..if not mistaken

Im don know they are mlm or not..or if it is, then got lisence or not? theres still a lot questions...

i will look for more detail ...

This post has been edited by Fandy: Apr 21 2008, 06:09 PM

It's not so much MLM, but what they are doing is promoting the offering of shares to public which falls under the prospectus regulations of the Capital Market & Services Act.

Not to worry, I have informed the Securities Commission authorities and they will undertake their own undercover investigations.

My advice, meanwhile, is to avoid such things.

Playbook,
bro, can we check online whether the com. are authorise by SC to collect investment deposits? Or is that all MLM need to authorise by SC 1st?

Hey playbook u re here too hehe.... seems too good to believe eh? oh well but if u have the time why not go listen to their plans? i mean its black n white n shit

This is a SCAM !! Such schemes take money from new members to pay the old members. Better tell your friend to pray hard they will not close shop and run away before your friend get back his capital but tell your friend NOT to promote it. You never know when they will close shop. It's not worth losing friends by taking them to such schemes.

---

Added on April 22, 2008, 7:45 pmKeep it up !! Friend, such scams must be stopped !!

I heard this Red Island Cafe is just among 1 of the shop next to the Mid-point shopping centre which is very easy to find and the owner also owns the mobil phone shop next to it.

You know Sunshine Empire also using such scheme ? Sunshine Empire's boss is even smarter. Recently he claimed the Singapore government has freezed their bank account(which of course is not true, they won't be so stupid to keep all monies in the Company account) so they will not pay back the monthly dues to members. They will only pay e-points and members who earned the points are "forced" to work harder to victimise and recruit new members to take their cash to exchange for it. The reason such scams will be 100% sure-success because members who deposited their monies are afraid to lose their monies if the Company closed. Thus, they will never badmouth the Company and instead promote for them.

Even some licenesed MLM Companies are using such schemes.

Nulife from HK is using such scheme and actively recruiting members under their new scheme now. I know who is involved with them too. Can I contact the Securities Commissions authories to inform them ?

This post has been edited by stopscams007: Apr 22 2008, 07:45 PM

They can't even use the name NUlife anymore in Malaysia as the old Nulife owner had transfer to Dynasty Worldwide....I heard they are making new scheme out well are you sure can inform SC and what they need to proof it?

Ever thought about this.
If it was widely promoted via networking method and the food is cheap and reasonable, why would it close shop?!
You have to remember they do have an "actual" product and service to sell.

Their method is just like what playbook mentioned.

well if the total payout is more than what they earn from the cafe, so are they paying from the collection they get from more ppl under them....and if this the case will it affect on the collected capital for coming cafe ? as i saw their plan before and it is too risky.....

In that sense, that might be true.
Thus obviously to prevent that from happening, they would need to promote their business aggressively. Which is one of the top priority too I suppose.

I'm standing from a neutral perspective in this. Not accusing nor endorsing. Just providing points to ponder upon.

seriously did you try the food n drink? i'd tried... my 2 cents taste..!!!heheh heyhey isn't this is a MLM thingy that are not supposed to be discussed here?

I've yet to try it. But heard from some friends that the food not bad. Different ppl different taste I guess.
Anyway regarding this:

It's on promoting of these schemes. But if it's open for discussion and not for the purpose of recruiting than it is fine.
Why, because everyone needs to educate themselves.

So in the case of a topic opened and asking for ppl to join or buy than it's prohibited.
If it's open for discussion regarding the plans and all, it's ok.

Btw, if it's MLM....what is the max downline?!... I do not see any downline from the way I read. It's only the group that started this Island Red Cafe "offering" a piece of the share to the public. i.e. A sell to B. But B do not go and recruit or sell to C which than B would gain from the sale. As it's still between A and C if C accepts the offer of buying that piece of "share".

What I pointed out is only 2 levels. MLM is multi Level right?.... Unless there's something I should know more about this Island Red Cafe. To me, it looks more like a profit sharing scheme just that maybe the owner is more confident about the returns thus the "guaranteed 5%".

This post has been edited by b00n: Apr 24 2008, 07:48 PM

Hi...

With regards to the question on investment deposits - deposit-taking is regulated under BAFIA. Check out Bank Negara for a listing of deposit-taking institutions.

What the SC regulates, is on the basis of the Capital Markets & Services Act (which covers various items like prospectus registration, corporate finance activities, etc.)

MLM not equal to deposit taking.

There will be some genuine MLM (usually the type where it's established, you need to slog hard e.g. Amway)... but what you are technically worried about are Ponzi schemes which are masquerading as MLM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

With regards to the Island Red Cafe affair, the issue may not be fraud in terms of them promising abnormal returns paid out of new incoming shareholders. What happens is that the shareholders (apparently) own shares in each of the operations. The issue with regards to the Island Red Cafe is that their form of marketing the shares is effectively illegal (under the CMSA) if they are offering shares to the public. On a separate note, it's only fraud if they are inflating the returns from the cafe by utilising the capital investment to generate spurious dividend payments back to the investors and misrepresenting it.

This may be useful to everyone.

How to go about reporting Investment Scams.

You can lodge a complaint by completing the following form below and faxing or sending to the address below

Investor Affairs & Complaints Department
Securities Commission
No 3 Persiaran Bukit Kiara
Bukit Kiara
50490 Kuala Lumpur

Tel: 603 6204 8999
Fax: 603 6204 8991
E-mail: aduan@seccom.com.my

Fill it out best you can, and draw attention to the issue.

The more people report it, the higher up the priority chain it goes to for investigation.

SC has set up a specific target time period to respond to all queries, so take advantage of this...


Attached File(s)
 complaintsform.pdf ( 135.44k ) Number of downloads: 71

when it sounds so good to be true...
then you might inside the trap.

please tell me what company can get back capital in 20months?
I rather put the money into mutual funds , than risking the 100% with this Red Island thing.

Thanks for all the infos as 1 of my fren wan to join..but i don't hv confidence with the IRC...but now i'm with other project that get me similar returns and yet better offers too...great to hv expert like u guys here!

what other business gives similar returns like IRC... 5% fixed...

does anyone here involved in this MLM and successfully gained the 5%?

Again like I asked before, is this considered MLM for starters?
I'm not sure.
IRC wants investors. Say Investor A joined. So when investor A introduce investor B and investor B joined, what will investor A gain?
When investor B introduce and recruited investor C, what does investor A and B gain?!....
As the way I see it like my previous post, it's only 2 level as MLM is multi level.

In some sense, it looks more like direct sales and yet not direct sales.
It's more like what Playbook had mentioned.
The only thing uncertain here is whether or not it's legal to "collect" funds or capitals from the general public. But than again IRC can always defend themselves by saying that it's a relation between them an the potential capitalist, depending on their defense on their stance.

It's rather a simple idea.
EG:
I want to open a shop selling computers. And I do not have enough capital or I don't want to coup up so much.
I would invite my friends to join in it as sleeping partner. Than when it's profitable or gaining momentum and I'm hungering for more, I would ask more friends and maybe my initial friends would ask their friends thus gathering capital for another shop. And it goes on as expansion as business grows.

Concept is similar, just that this IRC put up a rather strong stance in paying back 5% of the investment whereby if it's my method, it's profit sharing according to "share portions". It's a great business idea but if I'm the owner, I'm more worried on paying back the 5% if my business drops. This eventually led to the discussion and debates we're having here now.

That's the problem now, ppl have too much of money and refuse to put into FD because the interest is so low. Therefore, these people is now coming out with so many creative idea to indirectly getting funds from public to funds their own business. Anything happened, they're neither the employee/creditor/ shareholder of a shell company with RM1/2 paidup capital. In the end of the day, they get nothing. That's the worst scenario anyway...

I guess people needs more thinking here.

say you(sleeping investor) have invested money inside and the active investor make sure you get back 5% a month and that means you get back your capital in 20months (1.75 years) - doubling your money in less than 3 years. In this case, think that you are the active investor, you need to make sure the business gets more than 5% ( or about 7-10%) every month, to make sure you get the money and some saving money for your company, isnt it?
I really need some proving from TS's approacher to convince me about it. RM6000 isnt a big sum afterall. I'll ask if they wants RM200k from me and each month i take RM10k, so i no need to work anymore. Why people bother to buy shares, forex, funds and even property to make themselves rich if there's 5% a month. I re-mortgages all my properties and pay them.

There's a topic saying "how much you need to retire?" I think RM200k, in this case.

cheers guys

hey your at the retirement state now? great man...i'm going to make the rm200k then for rm10k per mth hahaha no need work liew

Hi all, I'm one of the investor in this Island Red Cafe.
First time i heard this, I feel that the concept is awesome. Anyway, I still spent more than 1 month period to do some survey before decided to invest it. I even seek opinion from a lawyer about the legalize & the S&P lawyer letter provided by IRC for the benefit guarantees.
Let me summarize the information i have about this investment concept.

Island Red Cafe (IRC) Global Partnership Franchise Business:

1. Whenever the region accumulated 50 slots investment, an IRC will be opened. 1 slot = RM6000. The investor will be the shareholder of the company & the royal customer and definitely will brings up more customers to the cafe. In short, win win situation for the shareholders and the company.

2. Shareholder's benefits:
i. Fix return RM300/slot (5% of the investment) for 1st and 2nd year = RM7200
Fix return RM150/slot (2.5% of the investment) for 3rd, 4th & 5th year = RM 5400
ii. RM100/slot food voucher given every month & will be give for total 5 years = RM6000
iii. VIP member discount 15%
iv. Birthday discount 30%

Total up the fix return & food voucher, the return is equal to RM18600, which is around 3x return of ur investment.
Imagine if u invest RM2 millions, ur return are RM6 millions after 5 years,

After 5 years, no more fix return but company will distribute 49% of the net profit to share among all the shareholders.

3. IRC's strengths:
i. Delicious food with vary choices.
ii. Reasonable price, with 6 star expenses but 3 star fees
iii. Good strategy and business plan, whereby the shareholders can share the company's profit
iv. All the shareholder's benefits are black & white guarantee with S/P & stamping from the lawyer, clarify the shareholder's benefits and protect the shareholder's rights.

4. Currently there are 3 IRC outlets already officially opened & operating.

i. IRC Cheras:
15G, Pandan Indah 1/23 B,
Pandan Indah,
55100 Kuala Lumpur

ii. IRC Puchong:
68, Jalan Puteri 5/1, Puteri Avenue,
Puchong 47100,
Selangor Darul Ehsan

iii. IRC Malacca:
G30,
Plaza Malacca Raya,
75000 Malacca

Feel free to ask me more questions & i'll answer it genuine,

---

Added on May 1, 2008, 5:38 pmYes, ur name will be listed inside the company license.
U can check it at the Register Of Company...

---

Added on May 1, 2008, 5:48 pmem, the cafe will only be opened if there is 50 slots or more than that...
so no matter how, the cafe will hv a group of royal customers...
take me as example, i hv RM100 voucher...definitely i will go there to eat frequenctly....
when i go there to eat, i will always ask my family or friends....

---

Added on May 1, 2008, 5:54 pmdid u try all the food there? different people will hv different taste.
what i can say is the food there is the food i eat every day in other place.
so it give me an idea that, since eat the same thing, y not go bek to the cafe i invested?

drink u may try the island red cafe (hot) or ice blended laici....i prefered this 2...
food u may try the penang prawn mee, red sate, island nasi lemak, chicken wings...

---

Added on May 1, 2008, 6:03 pmwe need to compare the cash generator btw sunshine empire & island red cafe...
the cash generator i mean is the business & method of how the company generator profit...
wat i can see that is the cash generator in sunshine empire haven't completely setup but they need to pay out more return to the investor...

island red cafe already hv 3 branches operating and generating profit...
in the coming may, johor skudai IRC will be opening soon....it will the the largest cafe in malaysia....



This post has been edited by cappuccino: May 1 2008, 06:03 PM

Then can you tell me what would be the case when the company wound up? Bankrupt?

I've seen and touch too much of these shits, basically i believe no one except myself....

Still remember my father last time went to court a few times just because some shits left in a private limited company...

From the Deed of Mutual Agreement:

7. Further, should the Business be wound-up either voluntarily or upon a Court Order, the proceeds from the sale and/or disposal of the Licensor and the Licensee’s assets, upon being realized, shall be distributed to Shareholders who have not received their first twenty (20) monthly payments, and thence to be followed by the other Shareholders, again in the proportion to the lots held, and shall be treated as if the Shareholders were secured creditors.

It is ok if u dun believe it nw.
Perhaps u can wait until IRC become famous and opened more than 10 outlets in Malaysia and only invest on it.
Everyone must measure the risk & return & if ok with it then only invest.

Since this is another type of investment, I wouldn't say this business will 100% success, what I can help to make IRC work is make sure i recommend more friends to hv their meal there, .

Q1: Does all this in written some sort of agreement or guarantee that this is not only verbal but are stamped black n whites?

Q2: What is the company registration no.? and the AJL license no.? as if not mistaken your using binary scheme,correct me if i'm wrong!

Q3: What is the paid out capital of the co.?

Q4: What are the current sales turn over for each or all IRC's?

Q5: Which bank is the Financial Support behind this IRC?


Just hope that all this is true to be the preferred investment program of the year! I'm interested to view what's current /latest investment such as IRC and perhaps there are more similar n might be better deal than this? thanks.

Please note that even if someone can get back their capital in 20 months or shorter don't mean that anyone or you should believe in it. Don't be surprise that when they last that long, someone or those who joined early are sure to get back their money but at the expense of the newcomers. Those who join last will be caught and lost. Thats how these scams worked.

---

Added on May 1, 2008, 10:50 pmWhy would I want my name to be involved in a Company or ROC knowing very well the scheme is a scam ? When the Company wind up, there will be nothing left, maybe LIABILITIES. You think the master-mind founder/s will leave any much money there ?

---

Added on May 1, 2008, 10:58 pmSome gave even higher than 5%. Yes, many have received their money successfully BUT you don't want to harm others. These monies are taken from the newcomers. When there is less newcomers and more money to be paid out, the founders will make a report to the police of authorities to go after them so that they can give an excuse for closing shop and run away.

---

Added on May 1, 2008, 11:06 pmcappuccino,

Why don't you let us know the full marketing and commissions scheme for recruiting new investors ?


This post has been edited by stopscams007: May 1 2008, 11:06 PM

Answer:

1. Yes, company will sign a contract "Deed of Mutual Agreement" between you and company once u decided to invest in IRC.
We even can do until lawyer to lawyer, meaning that u can bring ur own lawyer to meet IRC lawyer，nothing hide &　ｓｅｅｋ，

The rest question will refer back to u later. Or do u want to meet the boss to ask further?

In the mean time, u may go to check their business by visit to any of the branch, no pass needed,
Ask me along if u want to try the food there, i still hv voucher in hand,

---

Added on May 1, 2008, 11:48 pmFirstly, there is no reason for any boss to wound up their business if the business is earning money, so does IRC.
Secondly, IRC is doing a solid cafe business, u can c the cafe is existing and know how's the business going time by time.

Feel free to understand the cash generator of IRC. IRC's profit is not from the new shareholder investment money.
The investment of new shareholder are use to open more outlets, eventually this outlets will bring more profits to the company.

With the concept "investment created expenses, expenses created investment", the business will only growing bigger. I can foreseen that IRC will become another successful franchise business in Malaysia or even better in International.

We can choose to be a pure investor or run the MLM business at the same time.
I would just think that this is a natural recommendation to friend when i found a nice cafe to eat. Only after that they can choose to become the shareholder or just be a normal customer in IRC.

Lowyat forum not allow to post any MLM business plan, . Will send to everyone who wan to know it provided they give me their email address.



This post has been edited by cappuccino: May 1 2008, 11:48 PM

you can send details to me at creditcardepp@gmail.com . thkx....Even a boss will run away with the money if big as running will let him keep all than rather divided to all investor... My biggest concern is your pay plan...MLM or not i don't bother as i don't hv a problem with MLM as it is a very effective marketing strategies...So back to my question is. Can email me how your pay plan goes as since your sharing here that money are not coming from new comers and are paid by profit from actual business, right. So i need to know whether the plan are a scam or really can pay all investor monthly as i did visit few time to IRC..the business is so so only..sorry to say that as i really when there few times...frankly my taste bud are a bit particular as the food rating if you as me, is only 4/10 (10 is best).
If i'm goin to invest something that the pay plan promised secure returns but can't be paid eventually than this is a scam.... if it can pay off well from the actual business...than i'll 100% support you....anyhow, to all investor or person incharge of IRC in this forum, can pls reply all my previous question pertaining this IRC issue? really appreciated it. Thanks!

This post has been edited by siliconwiper.com: May 2 2008, 04:01 AM

I will get back to u asap.
My upline will be in KL this saturday, if u dun mind, i can arrange a time for u to meet him. I believed he can answer all ur doubts other than this issue that u raised.
Tqs for ur comment on the food, i will comment back to IRC management.

Cappu,
Thks for the pay plan...but remmebr i still need the answer for my questions above....Please arrange ur UPline to meet up.as i hv a group of business ppl are interest to see this IRC..PM when OK...thks......to all forumers who are interest can JOIN our meet up if wanna check it out...Scam or No Scam!! Hope you don't mind for this meet up

You are welcome,
I'll post out the date & time once fix it so that who interested can join the meeting.
Everyone feel free to go IRC to hv their meal & give comment to everything u feel not good.
I believe that IRC will still improving on the foods & drinks.

I treat this as my own business since I'm not afford to buy Franchise from McDonald, KFC or OldTown,

Air Asia taglines is 'Now everyone can fly' then IRC taglines will be "Now everyone can do franchise" . IRC's philosophy allow free choices for investors with different capital scales based on one’s financial condition and provide franchisees an interactive franchising support system for them to enter the international branded coffee franchising market comfortably.

Cheers!

This doesn't answer his question. His question was whether or not the returns are guaranteed. It's not.

Stay away from IRC. This is a clear case of a get-poor-quick scheme

This post has been edited by Playbook: May 3 2008, 04:50 AM

some get rich....other get poor...this a great line..LOL....sounds too good to be true...Untill the set of 'Judgement Day' hahahah....see you soon....capucinooo

Judegement Day...

So is 2molo meeting still on?
pls pm ur contact to me...will confirm with u the time to meet...
for those who interested to join the meeting, pls pm me ur number as well...
hv to fly tomolo nite, will not in kl for few weeks...hopefully can make it 2molo evening...

hi cappuccino,

just one question. how do you consider yourself as? (an opportunist, investor or business owner?)

you've stated both the validity and returns of such venture, but there're some crucial missing elements that a shrewd investor or business owner would like to know before parting with their capital.

i'm not sure if your 'survey' does cover extensively on aspect of cost and operational cashflows on a monthly basis?

besides, it's most ironic to say that an MLM(which the first M denotes MULTI) does not rely on acquiring Members(in the Multitudes)?

the members here act as a sort of leveraging.. the more the better, it's only how the distributions within that framework that cuts a legit and fair game or it's simply a farce.

I consider myself as an opportunist + investor.
I'm still young & in my learning stage to become a good investor in the future.
Yes, u are absolutely rite, my survey didn't cover extensively on aspect of cost and operational cash flows on a monthly basis.
But, I invested IRC based on other reasons.

Honestly, I'm not a smart person & not borned as a successful businessman.
But i still able to differentiate what is right & wrong for me.

IRC is a potential business due the the concept is awesome.
Some people said, invest business based on concept is very risky & not realistic.
Well, everything around us was initially started by a concept.
MLM is a concept, so does Government system was a concept.
A concept can be executed well will success, a concept that can't be executed equal to zero.
Once this project success, the whole business model in our society will be change.
As IRC success, Island Red Work Shop, Island Red Florist or Island Red Cinema will be the next one.
I like to be a history creator not be a history follower.

Perhaps, a lot people think that IRC 100% can't success.
But did they notice, if everything need to wait until 100% only start working on it, when will they success?
They not even see that the return if IRC concept + a solid cafe business success.

My upline was shared with me sth.
In this world, not only black & white region.
In between it, they is a region called Grey region.
In order to make fast money & big money, need to depend on a lot factors.
The black region, if u involved it, it is very risky due to it is illegal. Illegal thing, better not do it.
The white region, money already been finish earned or left a little for u to grab, it is not easy to become rich.
Luckily, there still got one Grey region.
We need to observe, survey, analysis & make decision.
But, we cannot see everything.
Because, once u see everything, u will quit.
Ask urself one question, observe sth completely without any worry and somemore can make fast & big money, when is your turn?

If u not dare to challenge Grey region, u can wait slowly.
Perhaps u got luck & wish to become the next lottery winner.
Perhaps u are powerful enough to climb to the top in ur career.
But I like Grey region.

don't get me wrong.. if it's an all-MLM play, what i'd really want to know is..
where am i in the food-chain?

allow me to re-word something from what you stated..
"IRC concept IS awesome, if you're at the top of the food-chain and with an exit strategy on-hand"

investing in real business without understanding the underlying cost is pure hype play.. at least the marketing plan got you.

well, i'm not pouring cold-water on you per se.. it's okay to try it out if that six grand is just 5% of your total capital. and perhaps learn some hard knocks from it.

good hunting there sir.

i offer you 2 points to ponder;

1. success and concrete returns.. are only meaningful if they come to past.
2. weath(or becoming rich) is not what you earn, but rather.. what you get to keep.

have you heard of syndicated fundings? that's one large and interesting grey region..
oh, another interesting thing being in a grey region.. since it's not really transparent, it's the best way to eat ikan bilis. so, ask yourself, in cloudy and grey situation are you the predator(shark) or are you just another ikan bilis?

just stay alert and smart.. you may survive and prosper in such environment!

A Simple calculation tells more than a thousand words

You give him 6000/plot
He pays you 300/month = 18000 in 5 years.
He have to make use of the money 100% to extract a profit element of 40% pa to pay your scheme.

My calculations tell me it's not possible.

Anyone interested with the calculation then refer to my attachment...

Assumption:
1. Owner does not cash out a single cents for his remuneration
2. Raw material prices does not changes upon 5 years period
3. Amount of customer remains the same. 320 customer per day. Consume RM8/meal.
4. All expenses remains the same for the 5 years period.


[attachmentid=461211]

nice calculation...thanks man....will share with my accountant to verify the possibilities to succeed in this 2 3 yrs...actually this calculation not included those pay out for their MLM levels pioonners and new comers...

will check out the cash flow later...
the meeting will be on 2molo monday 6pm at IRC Cheras Pandan Indah...
anyone who interested can join...
scam or not scam, wait until 2molo judgment day as saying by silicon wiper,

This post has been edited by cappuccino: May 4 2008, 10:03 PM

Yup. This is more to realistic. 50plot and dividend for that 50plot strictly.

tqs for teaching me, appreciate a lot....

cappu,
6pm in Pandan Indah is Great! i'll be there with my partner. list goes on:-
1) siliconwiper.com
2)
3)
4)

Place: Island Red Cafe Cheras Pandan Indah (Behind The Store)
Time : 6pm
Date : 5th May 2008

Lists:
1) siliconwiper.com
2) cappuccino
3)
4)

Silicon, prepare a series of question you have in your mind, write them down and do consider our statement...

Else you'll just wasting your time hearing what he/she present rather than asking what you have in your mind....

Good luck.

Keith,
thanks, as getting your calculation idea will be very helpful too...will bring some experts in MLM and Lay and accounts.....hehehe,,,,,,better make it live....

Anyway, personally, I still have a few questions. Maybe you can ask on-behalf of me...

1. What would happened if i would like to cash out my RM6000 after 5 years or any point of time between 5 years or after 5 years?

2. We as the shareholder of the company, do we carries voting rights? Are we the shareholder of the company or the outlet?

3. The company is limited liabilities? (Sdn Bhd?) How far is we (shareholder) liabilities? Company filed annual report? Who's the auditor or solicitor of the company?

PS: Boys, you guyz are so lucky nowaday with the available of information to make proper decision. I still remembered my father lost 100-200k hard earned money conned by those liers. Remember my word: In this real world, when you have financial relations, no one is friends.

This post has been edited by keith_hjinhoh: May 4 2008, 10:35 PM

MLM MY A$$

Keith,
so sorry that the time i saw this replies i'd meet up 2 IRC ppl. cappucino and his sponsor person, anyway not much of question could be raise as discussion time are short...regarding ur Q. better ask cappucino lo

So how's ur evaluation towards this investment scheme?

can say much at the moment as i need Cappucino to send me the agreement for my advisor to review and the plan i need to study abit,,,,will replied asap......

As i would only say GOOD LUCK for those invested in IRC.

Cappucino, as you said you invested in.. who is your sponsor?? and do you know Calvin Lim and David Lim???

Felice821,
This is the same question i ask cappucino too this evening went we meet up....Do you know them?

Yes... Personally i know them for more than 5 years alr.... Calvin is not just a ex-MLM partners of mine... he is my friend as well.

You know them??

personally no...just heard bout their name when i go check out the IRC thingy....are u with their latest project?

my sponsor person is philip...
i don't know them...might to introduce their background a bit here?

---

Added on May 6, 2008, 11:23 amhv sent the agreement to u, check it out...

This post has been edited by cappuccino: May 6 2008, 11:23 AM

Thanks bro..alredi got it...will go thru it with my team advisors and hopefully will get somethin out of it....

They are creator/owner for this IRC.

oh like that....those are big brother lah....oh so sorry i'm small small brother only,..