Some members are complaining not getting their monthly payment. So basically your plan is just plain trash.

Is there any proof that you are getting your return?

to pass on the benefit to others who missed the fantastic opportunity?

i relly wonder why they not offer anymore the member? cannot afford to pay the komisyen?

You shouldn't sell your "stake/membership/scheme" at all because there are no investment target out there can guarantee you that kind of return rate (with 6K capital get 16.8K return).

It makes no sense one to look for buyer to sell the "stake". 
The reason of taking the money to look elsewhere investment target doesn't make a lot of sense because even stock market can't generate those kind of return 300% over 5 years in normal time.

So you should stop looking after buyer of your scheme (main because the return simply too good, can't get elsewhere) also this is not a place to sell your scheme/membership or whatever, this is against the forum r&r. 

Until now, nobody knows those plan is legitimate or not.

IRC retails shop out there never mention or publish got such an scheme or the scheme is approved by any authority to be carried out to look for public money.

if u are earning already then y wanna sell off???
since u had already taken back ur rm4800 then are u selling ur share at rm1.2k?
smelling sumthing fishy here

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Added on April 17, 2009, 8:42 pmlast time my uncle tried to convince me to join such things....
kinda feel lucky i din join since many bad comments regarding this cafe

Fyi, any investment that taking in public money need SC approval before it is deem legal, aka no company can run an investment scheme without SC approval.

Oppss, I forgot this is not called investment, right? 

Anyway I am not in a position to comment anything this scheme, as said before I don't know whether this scheme is legitimate or not. I never said it is legal nor it is illegal. 

Investment definition is not from my view or not. You put money in UT or ponzi scheme, that's an investment. You put money to open up an business or shop, it is not considered an investment based on general term.

Running a business is not an investment scheme. Opening a coffee shop is not an investment scheme.
Running a MLM business is not an investment scheme (you still need to get KHPDN license to do it).

Opening a coffee shop like IRC is perfectly legitimate, nobody question on this issue.

But running an investment scheme for public is different issue than opening a coffee shop already.

SC approval is needed when a company is taking in public money for investment purpose which yield you the return based on investment like UT, insurance etc.

Again, we had no proof to say the "investment scheme or membership programme" is legitimate, so we can't say it is legitimate or not. As it might fall into grey area. We can't make conclusive comment without both side of fact and information, which is a fair statement. 

I had no intention to prove anyone wrong, or wish to see any scheme that is wrong or goes under. But this is a open discussion on the issue which yield the best interest to all, and informative in general.
Whether one wants to put in money into where, it is individual matter, we had no right to comment on it.

Hi tt_ren,

I am just wondering as some of forumers here might, what is the value of your 'investment' now, and after 1 year.
From what I read,
Your initial investment was 6,000
You already go tback 3,600 + 1,200 (food voucher)
>> Total return you got back = 4,800/6,000 = 80% /year     (This is a damn good return).
>> But, on the other hand, this is also a very high risk (because you never know when the scheme fails).  It might fail at 2nd year or 3rd year ...  So, if you sell your share and hope to make a profit from it, then you are making the buyer bear the high risk, while you are making a handsome profit from it.  Sounds good for you, but not the buyer.
Unless you are willing to forego a part of your return for the buyer because you have already got rid of the high risk.

No buyer will want to bear the high risk of buying over unless there is a better return because of a higher risk for the remainder of the scheme (48mths worth = 300x48= 14,400 if all goes well).  Forget about the food voucher, it can be thought of as something to be given away, because if you cannot consume it, neither can the buyer buy your good voucher and try to consume it on your behalf.  Effectively, the return is only 300/mthx48mth.

You cannot hope to sell it at 14,400 because it is a risk someone will have to take to buy over from you.
The 1st year risk is the lowest, each year thereafter, the risk goes up.
Chances of loosing 6,000 on the 1st year is almost zero.
Rightly, the value of the scheme now has a value of only 4/5 of 6,000 because you already utilised 1/5 of 6,000
But because the risk on the remaining 4 years is higher, the seller will have to forego a little (got back 1/5 of total return). 

This will work out to 4/5 x 6000 = 4,800  and a 5%discount for having to take a higher risk for the remaining 4 years.  So, a reasonable value for a buyer would be between 4,560 (=4,800-240).  The food voucher cannot be forced sold to interest buyer, because there will be new food voucher of 100 every month.  In fact, buyer may not want the RM100 food voucher, because it may not be easy to consume that much of food, because it may not be convenient (just like what you experience).

So, if you are willing to sell it, maybe a reasonable price tag might be 4,500 subject to willing buyer willing seller.
Your profit will be based on this:
Your investment is 6,000
Your return is 4,800 (includes Food Voucher)
Your return from selling the scheme 4,500
Total return you get is 4,800
Your cost is reduced to 6,000 - 4,500 = 1,500
ROI = 4,800/1,500  = 3.2x (320%)  (this is still a very good return by any standard)

If you bear it through, your ROI = 400*60/6000 = 4x (400%)  .
You will not get a 400% return if you sell it off now for reasons mentioned above.
This will give you an idea of how much you can expect to gain by selling your so called 'share' of the 'investment'  now.

So, you still want to see off your 'golden egg' ???
Note: This is not an offer to buy, but just for discussion on how to value an offer.

Hi TT_ren, I am not offering to buy.  I am just showing you how it can be valued.  The calculation was based on assumption that the return of300 per month is every year. 
But, now you said return for
2nd yr is 300/mth,
3rd yr is 100/mth,
4th yr is 100/mth,
5th yr is 100/mth,
then the calculation is not correct anymore.

Then provided if there is no problem, the total return will be 12(300+100+100+100)=7,200 (4.8K food not cash).  You cannot exchange the food for cash.  So, the food can only be thought of as savings in expense if you consume it.  But, if not consumed then it is not savings.  It cannot be valued as a fixed return, but as only a gift.  You will have to keep your 1000 fv for your own consumption, as the buyer will be getting 100/mth worth of fv anyway.

Friend, you cannot take 13K as return.  The return is only 7.2K cash not 13K provided nothing prevents the scheme from going bad.  If scheme goes bad, return may not be even 7.2K.
So, potentially the return is 7.2K and investment is what 4K?  ROI is 7.2/4 = less than 2x for all the high risk.
It's not a good investment, considering the 1st year return is 3.6K/1.5K >2x.  So, the investment from 2nd yr cannot be 4K now. Because of higher risk, ROI for 2nd year must be at least better than ROI for 1st yr, then maybe buyer may consider the deal.  Note Food Voucher is not cash you can redeem and put into your pocket to buy something else.  It can at best be considered as a gift (or a present for taking the scheme offer).

If scheme fails on 3rd yr, then effectively return is only 3,600.  And investment is what... 4K?  This may be extremely risky.  Go figure what the fair value given the above scenario. 

I would not even want to consider if I don't get back my capital in 6 months. Hence 1.8K might be a reasonably fair value. Yes, you may end up getting only 3.6K/4.2K if you sell off your golden egg now, because of lower return and higher risk 2nd yr... onwards.

Ideally, your return is only (7.2+3.6)/6 = 10.8/6 for the 5yrs.  And it works out to only 1.8x or 80% or 16% pa if the scheme runs till end of 5yrs.  (still a damn good investment by any standard).  So, keep the golden egg till all the golden goose can be slaughtered and eaten.   

Quoted for truth. The ultimate destruction is on the way.

Quoted for truth. The ultimate destruction is on the way.

Apologise for the destruction of IRC caused by their own member?
Don't make me laugh.

You never even tried to understand why it will fail and now making accusation.

As long you can sell your voucher, it's one of the main recipe required for a ponzi scheme to fail.
No matter whom you sell it to.

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Added on April 22, 2009, 9:18 pm
Why the emotion.
Truth do hurt doesn't it.

The more I bad mouth it, the harder for you to make money?
So what is the motive for a newbie like you having the first 2 posts in this thread?

You went into this investment without analyzing it first, didn't you?
Believing this investment 100% would not fail.

i'm actually quite interested in this whole concept on IRC. Does anyone has a softcopy of the agreement or all about the whole concept?

Yes, it's your money.
Since you decided to post your "investment" in this forum.
I will scrutinize it and give short comment without explaining further.
I can explain, if you ask nicely "why?".

A good investor will remain neutral, no matter what happen.
What you really lack is a neutral mind.
Look at your own assumptions you had made.
If you really don't care, no matter what bad comments I made would not make you emotionally unstable.

Some members are complaining not getting their monthly payment. So basically your plan is just plain trash.

All ponzi scheme will not have problems repaying their member at the beginning stage.
I doubt you would see any problem base on past history.

It's still in the beginning stage.

Paying late is the symptoms, problem starting to brew.

Quoted for truth. The ultimate destruction is on the way.

Apologise for the destruction of IRC caused by their own member?
Don't make me laugh.

You never even tried to understand why it will fail and now making accusation.

As long you can sell your voucher, it's one of the main recipe required for a ponzi scheme to fail.
No matter whom you sell it to.

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Added on April 22, 2009, 9:18 pm
Why the emotion.
Truth do hurt doesn't it.

The more I bad mouth it, the harder for you to make money?
So what is the motive for a newbie like you having the first 2 posts in this thread?

You went into this investment without analyzing it first, didn't you?
Believing this investment 100% would not fail.

I'm not against MLM businesses but "money get back is 1st thing, fail or not who cares" is something no MLM person should say man. Its like the lamp berger.. Dun care if everyone below me dies.. I get my money back.. run fast fast  That's the thing that scares people.

When you go into something like MLM you should be responsible. Imagine convincing your friends and family to join it then when it fails.. "Nvm I got my money back"  Ties with your family and friends.. gone..