here's an interesting clip about selective breeding...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmkj5gq1cQU
i wanna achieve that with FS!!

Nice muscular cow..

Caught a new average size male FS yesterday evening. Its colour also pale light green like Spartan and Archilles.
Caught it from big leaves plant. Also caught 2 more young males but then released them back.



Dunno wat to name the new FS.. so just called it X.

Kinda thin tho...











Cheers,
v_viper88


This post has been edited by viper88: Feb 26 2008, 10:37 AM

Nice... time to orientate it ....with ur spartan

Kenot la.. X sure lose coz Spartan size so much bigger.
This morning after morning exercise found another average size male FS.
Caught it at the lily plants where i release Banglo, Pandan, Lily and some others male FS.
Not sure whether this is same FS tat i've released last time onot.. name it as Lily2.

X and Lily2 about same size.. but i think X is stronger la..coz got colour like Spartan and Archilles.
Better fight with ur average FS... dun want them to fight now coz later injured cant fight with ur FS leh.

Yea.. today i put a female FS inside Spartan case. He is more active already..

Ur BigHeads still active? Any new challenger for him to spar?


Cheers,
v_viper88

---

Added on February 26, 2008, 6:41 pmYou wanted to try breed excellent FS?
For commercial purpose or just want to do it for research?

Cheers,
v_viper88





This post has been edited by viper88: Feb 26 2008, 06:41 PM

Bighead is past his prime. Worried about him cuz he no longer so active. I didnt fight him for many days now. This morning i let him see female...still excited. But didnt mate cuz female unwilling.

I wanna breed FS because i enjoy playing with them so much and want to preserve the good fighter genes. Everytime we catch a good fighter, we have one less in the wild to breed with other females in the wild. So if like that, slowly the wild will have less good fighters. As i mentioned before, I also want to do it for the challenge since i cant find any material where people have bred and raised jumping spiders. So it is more or less as a hobby. Don't we do what we find interesting? Also out of curiousity to know wheather FS fighting behaviour can be passed down. For plakat(short tail fighting fish) and many other fighting animals, it has shown to be possible. Since in my humble double storey terrace house, i have only enough space to breed small animals, so FS is a good choice...but honestly, even if i have big farm land, i would also try to breed FS...hehe. Commercial purpose? Dunno la... since u know so few people find them facinating. But for me, i like them alot and will keep on with playing them, even by myself. But of cuz, got more kaki more excitement.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Feb 27 2008, 02:46 AM

Chops(male or female) are fighting spiders that do not display the usual combative stance commonly seen when faced with an opponent. They launch a grappling attack almost instantly upon contact, often pouncing from a distance at the enemy. They are known to be difficult to breed because they attack the opposite sex too. So can they mate?

Ok..that's wat i wrote on youtube. hehe...here's the clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic3PkoLOPC8

Comments: Nah.. i didnt get the chops to mate. But from the clip you can see chops still possess the sexual drive. They do seem less "skilled" at trying to mate. Compare to normal males, they seem to "quiver" less and seem to be less determined/active in trying to mate than the normal male. It is important to place the chop and partner under bright light if you try to mate them. As we have previously encountered, under dim lighting, chops won't hesitate to attack whatever is moving which include the opposite sex.

Another goal of mine for the FS! To mate a chop and to see wheather the next generation are also chop!

Right now we think that chop is either a disease or learned behaviour. Whatever it is, it is a force to be reckon with in the world of FS.

Here's an article i wrote about chops way back last year on 19/03/07.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Feb 27 2008, 04:25 AM


Attached File(s)
 chops.txt ( 4.17k ) Number of downloads: 21

SHOCKING...

The following footages are meant only for hardcore FS players.

From what you are about to see, I find it hard to think that that is lowland. I remember lowland as not very aggressive and certainly not strong. But here we find a different force.

Before we look into the dark side of FS, we go through some history first...
These are some past fights of lowland when i first caught him and before i gave him to viper. I didn't post the clips cuz they're just short fights.

24/01/08
1) Lowland(won) vs topman
2) Bigguns vs Lowland(lost) -round 1
3) Bigguns vs Lowland(lost) -round 2
4) Bigleave vs Lowland(lost)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8XKgOHzoo8
Comments : The last clip show that lowland lose to bigleave only very short fight.

Here is the first shocking video today. Lowland vs bigleave. A very fast fight. You would think bigleave won...but if you watch it in slow motion or you repeatly watch it, you'll see the lighting speed of lowland and unbelievable tactic it uses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCl9Y1vViNs

Because of this fight, i think that this may not be lowland and the spiders were not swapped when viper and i fight Lowland and Noname.
Here's the controversial clip as i mentioned before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_1DGXuRDyo
Noname(left) actually moves backwards(when it is not chop) when it "chap ma bo". But the pastclips above shows that lowland actually moves forward when it "chap ma bo".

This is the head pattern of lowland(left) in one of its pastfights(3)

Here is "lowland" today

Of cuz you may say head pattern may darken, but certainly not lighten as we can see lowland from past fight actually has 2 streaks running from black half(front) of head to abdomen whereas the "lowland" i'm holding now has no lines touching the abdomen. Again, because of this I think this is actually Noname.

But now I renamed him as Jack... Jack the ripper.

Why? The second SHOCKING video will tell you why... Jack vs 6leg... as per your request, Mangrovejumper....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFmmAnYaKHI

And the aftermath..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd-jmq7RuGI

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Feb 27 2008, 04:32 AM

Oman.. tats very aggressive and its confirm a fierce CHOP spider!! It doesnt want to fight long but wanted to eat/kill the opponent!
Bite throught its opponent abdomen till bleed.. A fearsome fighter.. scary Its opponent are totally defendless against the strong bite attack!

Its smaller abit than BigLeaves and much smaller than 6Legs rite?
I still feel 6Legs shouldn't fight withother fierce FS.. very disadvantage. From the fight i can see it lost balance when kena chop attack.
It also cant lock its opponent properly coz only got 1 arm leh...
Hope 6Legs can recover from tat fight.

After i got the LowLand from u, i've fight it against Banglo, Lily + other FS ,..and after few days i notice tat their fight is equally match.

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/608348/+120.

U got view back the video of Noname vs LowLand in video frame mode?
I see LowLand actually won the match and still thinks its LowLand.. when i fight it with my other previous FS, i can see LowLand is a good fighter and can fight continuously with few FS one after another 1. Eventho after sometime LowLand lost, but it still not Kecut easily and give good fight back and won back. Only after lose to Archilles, LowLand seem to kecut abit but recover quite fast.

FS fighting skill changes from time to time. Some FS i keep also turn out to be very aggressive and fierce.

Ur FS Jack... is it same size like BRO1, TopMan and KelapaSawit?
From the video, Jack looks quite big also. So Jack now is No. 1-2 ady?

The new FS i caught X and Lily2 i chk again this morning seems quite big abit ady..maybe fat coz yesterday fed them with some small leaf flies..

Cheers,
v_viper88

This post has been edited by viper88: Feb 27 2008, 02:15 PM

Thanks for the clips, we finally have video documentation of chop vs chop fights (i.e. pushing is for sissies). Also thanks for blowing on the spiders to save 6leg.

If you can get a chop male to mate, it will be a first. They seem to be more kecut than usual and they'll try to bite the female instead of trying to get on top.

Noname/Jack is really, really fast. I wonder if it's a fighting technique to jump over his opponent to bite the abdomen, or just plain luck. Sometimes chops are so out of control that I don't think they know where they're going when they jump. I do know that chops do get hurt fighting against non chops too, although it's uncommon.

I hope Bigleave and 6leg can recover. You may need to check up on them more often the next few days and have plenty of fresh water.

You can certainly try Jack with the female chop or with Bighead, but you may have to be quick to intervene if one of them taps out.

Viper, as you can see, even with a head to head match, which is as fair as it can get, non chop FS are still at a disadvantage against the chop FS. I think the non chops have a better chance in the fight if they can withstand the initial attack, which most of them cannot.

Interestingly chops don't behave like that when warding off other species of jumping spiders. They only chop their own kind.

This post has been edited by Mangrovejumper: Feb 27 2008, 05:13 PM

Someone mentioned this before - about spider fighting being cruel, i do not totally agree with him, but i do think that letting 6 legs fight IS CRUEL.
My 2 cents.

wow seeing these spiders brings back memories when i was young. we would keep these spiders in match box and when end of class we let them fight hahha.

all i know is size does not always matter. my Big spider once lost to a tiny spider. haha then i tot it was old so i let it go behind my house forest

Ya.. i do agree CHOP have advantage if fight a normal FS in a head on match bcoz of its fierce bite attack n determination to kill but there are still possibility a CHOP spider also can be defeated by other fierce and strong normal FS.

I've VS my friend's CHOP spider in my skool days and my normal FS also can give the CHOP spider a good long fight before lost....
Alot of arm lock, pushing and bitting...a normal fierce FS wont retreat easily even when facing a CHOP FS.
It will wack the CHOP back and want to win the fight .. . Some normal fierce FS also will fight to death in a long fierce fight.

Normal Fierce FS also can launch strong and powerful chop attacks during fight also.
BigHead vs Archilles.
Archilles vs Spartan.

Both FS chop attacks more about +/- 10 times and still stand fight without retreat!

Video where Chop lost to normal FS.

Romeo vs smallchop...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTA9MwqeFUY

A CHOP FS also same like a normal FS, the only different is its fighting techniques... very very fierce fighter.

Cheers,
v_viper88



This post has been edited by viper88: Feb 27 2008, 06:52 PM

Jack size is about bro1 size, maybe slightly bigger. Yes smaller than bigleave and much smaller than 6leg. He is more compact, arms thicker...
Kelapasawit actually quite small...maybe kecut already...

I reviewed the Noname vs Lowland fight many times. What happened is that Noname (left) chopped first and send Lowland back, then Lowland counter chop and then push Noname towards the middle of the leaf. Lowland's back is then towards the edge of the leaf. Then Noname chop back again and Lowland scurried backwards towards the edge of the leaf and went under first followed by Noname going after it...
After that we just can see one spider facing left side... and the other one dropped

Looks like the last part is that lowland was running away backwards...and dropped after it went under...
I also watch my camcord frame by frame...

I also remember Lowland as more lanky, but Jack is very compact and tough.

Also, circumstantial evidence is that I did not get any other good fighters/chops from the place i got lowland.
Bigleaf, Thickarms(let go already), and several smaller males all not good fighters.
But from where i got Noname, the place is where 6leg, smallchop originated. I also caught a very healthy chop there last year.

Ok, the bad news...
When i came home yesterday nite, 6leg....
I actually could not believe my eyes when Jack treated 6leg like a fly!


Bigleaf is in bad shape but recovering. He looks shrunken and thirsty but ate a big Drosophila today.

As of today, Jack has not lost a battle. Should i test him against Bighead?

yeah, against a normal tough fighter like Spartan, it is hard to say a chop(if same size) can win...

You have a fair argument here. I agree that rematch would be cruel, since we already know the result. However if you look at the other clips involving 6leg (specifically clips against Bighead) you'll see that he can hold his own in a fight against a normal spider. 6leg is a chop, he will try to eat smaller males too if he has a chance. It's also a fair assumption that he was involved in something very violent before he was caught that caused him to lose 2 of his legs. The difference is, it wasn't captured on video to be shared with the world and commented on.

Mindstorm has the last say, but retiring 6leg may not be a bad idea assuming that he recovers. BTW, he has certainly helped show what a "chop" is. Try explaining what it is to a passerby without using the video clip. You'll find that it's darn near impossible.

We're well aware of our impact on Thiania Bhamoensis spiders. We have the desire to share our passion and as a result people that have never seen fighting spiders can now gain an appreciation for them. Don't you think that these video clips are educational? How many times have you heard someone say they will smash a spider to a pulp if they ever see one near them? If we can change 1 person's opinion here, we'll undoubtedly spare countless spiders' lives.

I know that we're not doing the fighting spiders any justice by the rampant development that's occuring in their habitat to the point that they may be scarce or even gone by the time our children are adults. And if that happens, at least we'll have these everlasting video clips to pass on.

---

Added on February 28, 2008, 1:25 amSorry to hear. You knew it right after the fight. I guess the lesson learned is never fight a less than full strength spider with a chop.

This post has been edited by Mangrovejumper: Feb 28 2008, 01:26 AM

Wa.. 6Leg gone liao.
Mindstorm u let them fight again at nite or put in same case? Sure die la...injured badly from fight with BigHead and Jack earlier.

Eventho 6Leg is big chop, i dun think its a fierce or strong fighter from the video u posted earlier. 6Leg cant last long in fierce fight due to its physical disadvantage..
Don't think it can hold a strong push and balance properly if got chop fiercely by its opponent. If fight with a normal strong FS i feel 6Legs will lose most of the time also. If fight with fierce chop.. i think no chance to win at all.

I feel its better to fight CHOP with CHOP but same size and no handicap1..

Today not working. Caught another medium size FS from the same place i caught Archilles and Spartan. Name it as X2.
Also caught a small male FS named it as Tiny2.

Heres the video of their fight.
Short fight only but got some chops. No FS injured or dead.

X vs X2. (X won)
X chop 2X, X2 chop 1 time
Link: http://download.yousendit.com/CDCB2F795A412FCC

X2 vs Lily2 (Lily2 won)
Lily2 chop 1X. M
Link: http://download.yousendit.com/ED4D5E3E53FA2459


Here got some of other spiders/insects i encountered during my FS hunt.

Small grasshopper, green spider



Spider Besi


Spider Hantu/Pisang. This one is a scary spider. Dun play play..



Spartan seems like getting old already..not so fierce. Put it to fight with Tiny2 this morning.. No worry..
Tiny2 is kecut type.. it will ran away when saw Spartan. Spartan is not a CHOP spider, it wont jump n kill Tiny2.

I put Tiny there just to see whether Spartan can put up fierce fighting stance only. Spartan saw Tiny but doesnt see it as a threat so didn't challenge it
to a fight.

Heres the pic, see the size difference.



Will let go Tiny2 later this evening.

Only keep Spartan, X, X2 and LILY2.

Cheers,
v_viper88

This post has been edited by viper88: Feb 28 2008, 04:19 PM

Well... it seems like the 'chop' spiders you guys are talking about are actually cannibalistic spiders... or spiders who have learnt to use their venom and bite their own kind. Noticed that after every successful 'chop' the victim does not move - paralysed by venom perhaps?

Not sure if you guys have read this...


Attached File(s)
 50rbz143_151.pdf ( 1.44mb ) Number of downloads: 59

HOLY *%$#!! DAMN, JACK DID IT AGAIN!

This is THE MOST DANGEROUS FS i have seen in MY life and i tell you, i have seen plenty.

My apologies to you, Mangrove Jumper, but this encounter(it's not even a fight... it's more like feeding time) is as fair as fair can be. Bighead was charging forward. Don't think it is luck again man with this second time round.... horrific deadly technique.

Jack(right) vs Bighead(left)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NneYbMGFHBg
Comments: A split second encounter. If you call it a fight , then its a truly truly short fight, but a truly truly deadly one...

The aftermath...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYrpYYbe_bw

I do think Bighead will live through this... hopefully...
This will be his last fight....

-------

Viper: Of course I did NOT let them fight again. 6leg was not moving when i check on him after coming home. Just before i left for work(about 1/2 hour after the fight), I saw there was a bit of liquid in his case where he was crouching...he was still bleeding! I gave it water and hoped for the best...nothing i could do more....

BTW - should we have Spartan vs Jack?

Chops like i said before in my article are really barbaric and dirty fighters.

Here's another example...

Smallchop(bottom) vs Bro1(top)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGVXpuX3uuA

Notice how small chop target the arm...almost severing it.

u tink tat a 6leg spider wont fight in the wild??wat do u mean by cruel??war cruel??u hit mosquito also cruel la..it's jz trying to survive by drinking blood jek..u dun eat meat la...some animal gotta die jz for u stomach ler...

btw gor,im coming bck tmr...u taking d car??

---

Added on February 28, 2008, 8:40 pmoh..my bro(TS) caught a DEMON BUTT BITING spider...
it attacks by bitting the opponents butt...
cheater..

This post has been edited by spinel-sun: Feb 28 2008, 08:40 PM