I manage a group of around 10 people at the moment, and all of whom are ladies. More will be under me including men once the old batches successfully graduates.

Although I am Chinese Asian working in a foreign land, my people have no problem with my style of managing them - direct, highly involved, communicative, fast, high standard, and keeping the group dynamic nice. My team ranges from White, African, to Chinese and no one has issue with me. Most of them really appreciate my professionalism and how I have been guiding them. I also have good relationships with people who aren't in my team yet, But this particular person is cracking my head...

This person
- female, early 30s, Thai national
- when asked for information, she will send me a link, and in the horrible tone of voice, ask me to link and refer to that
- if anything, i need to refer back to her, instead of her updating me what she has done without my knowledge
- any meeting outside work but helps to boost their connection, she answered me - 'I am not answerable to you'
- only wants to meet once a month, online, and according to her time schedule, not mine
- refuses to join my team meetings, and refuse to mingle with other people in my team
- she would mislead information then accuses me of having to agreed that when she only rushed to complete a sloppy work (We can easily see a sloppy work in a glance)
- keeping a lot of paper trail to paint I'm a bad person and she has been doing her best. this also includes providing false info in her email (Other people in my team can easily be my evidence to my work professionalism) (I am also tired of keep correcting her in emails because it will lead to no end, and most times she will just reply 'noted' which I have zero idea what that means)
- sent out meeting invites even though I have told her she needs to work more on her task first before calling for a meeting (Basically just telling me off, who the fish I am, and we will most probably be talking about the same thing from last meeting, a pure waste of time)
- always sends documents attached to cloud and she often makes changes to it (leaving no trail of her terrible work)
- behind her tough look in front of everyone, all I know is she cries and cries like she is a victim of my wrongdoing
- she is a highly anxious person
- manipulative, but half stupid as well - I always get to find out her next moves and foil her MO (and she doesn't like it obviously)
- never takes accountabilities and responsible on her own actions
- gets offended easily and said I disrespected her
- sent a hinted email teaching me how to write properly to her as a sign of respect
- sends work that makes zero sense at all but she will also display such a confident look
- sends a set of work through email and display another sets of document during meetings

This issue has been made known to my other colleagues and we will bring this up to the management next week. I want her off from my team and the whole company, she imo is a pure liability. Managing this team is only a part of my portfolio, I have other work to attend to as well.

I am truly intrigued by what type of person she is. Some said she is rich so she always has it her way. Does anyone has someone like this at the workplace? How do you deal with it?

Thanks for listening my rant.

Bro, from your question i have question.

Hiring thai/viet degree holder. ( i never tried )

but is rather easier/cheaper than hiring labour from bangladesh right?
Under category Skilled Worker/Professional

do you know the details?

You have done more than enough.

Follow like gov staff kito. SoP all the way deal hard on her, chance you gave too much sudah. She already against you from start.



It's either she quit or leave project or you leave your job/leave project.

No idea. I'm just a toxic high performing kuli somehow

not really, all depends on skills

yes, i have done enough. but i can never imagine the rudeness she displays, as a thai. it's shocking to say the least.

not smart, doesn't deliver quality work, go against me, i need to listen to her. lmao.

i won't leave my job, i bring in 300% productivity than other people. company has plenty of people to fire before me.

she has to go.

she said she is not answerable to you. maybe u can start explain this part

perhaps one quick and effective for you to knock some sense into her is to actually report all these misdemeanors issues of hers to HR and issue a warning letter, while you are at it prove her redundancy and have her dismissed in 2 months time.

I have had subordinates who underperform yet have ego as huge as their dickheads, and I have come to realise that rather than working things out and dumb down to their level, getting rid of them outright is always the best approach.

To her, she thinks her work just covers the work. And not about meeting people and know their needs.

So when we attended the big group meeting and I asked her if she was coming. Because everyone was. Later on, she then told me this.

You can see she has no idea what her work requires her to do.

Yes. She also always requires me to justify why I came to that decision. While other sub will think and know my intention is good and they will figure out then only discuss from their side.

I've put everything in black and white and expected an alert from management but somehow management approves her performance. I then personally email to the management that we SERIOUSLY need to have a meeting about her. We will have the meeting this coming Monday.

Underperform and huge ego. Then ask me to submit to her. Then she will direct the meeting. But she looks so stupid in the meeting because she had no idea what she's doing. And when I correct her, she finds it offensive. But if I don't, she will blame me later on that I didn't guide her well.

focus on the 9 better

Doing that and they're performing really well. They also bond very well which I'm happy to see. Supporting one another when needed.

My other 9 will perform so well while she busy arguing with me. Soon, we will complete 4 projects while she's still talking about how we should proceed with her project.

Their achievements will be her embarrassment.

She has to go, one way or another. U give in too much.

You need is to manage her out

It is never pleasant and easy to do it

I rather take in double project then facing staff like this but sometimes you just have to deal with it

Do update here if you manage to kick her out

Always curious as to how other manager manage bad staff out

It's time to do some spring cleaning sis.

Yes. She needs to go. I want her out of this country. She can go back earn her Thai baht. She has such a great opportunity but behave like everyone owes her.

Will do.

As she is under me. I used to manage her by myself. Slowly as she hits her important milestones, her true self appears and it gets ugly. Everyone knows her right now. I don't have private meeting with her as well. I had a short meeting once with her in the corridor for 5 minutes and then she made a paper trail on how I refused to meet her in person and how I cancelled the meetings (when we didn't even agreed to them). She knew my style on when I meet with my team and best to consult them (I said that 3 times) and she didn't even write that in her paper trail email.

What happened after that? She never appeared to see me. She's good at barking online but in person she pretends to be the sweetest Thai person. Everyone is shocked when they hear stories from side. That's how cunning and manipulative she is.

The thing with this country also they're very kind. Even criminals blame their mental health and they don't get into prison. Here comes a difficult cunning person whom the uni may give excuses for her behavior. I hope not. I've enough justification to kick her out. Her behavior has zero alignment with company's vision and goals as well.

She's tough. Now she's occupying my head rent free cause i need to think how to deal with her and also prepare for her trap and having to always stay vigilant.

I really need to focus on my other projects and deliver them.

Just to say work isn't difficult, it's the people that's difficult.

Sure sounds like a sociopath with a princess mentality.

Since she deems herself unanswerable to you, high time to gather evidence and follow the necessary protocols to ensure that she indeed does not have to answer to you or anyone else in the company.

I have one ex subordinate exactly with the criteria of what u mentioned.

The only way u can win this type of people is not to fight them and you yourself must be very professional. You must not retaliate by anger because if you do, she will like it becoz you proof that you are the problem not her.


Trust me this person is very anxious and the way she reduce anxiety is to by "gaslighting"' you.

So how you deal with this type of person? Make everything transparent, all emails, communication, work update, projects, make it all official and formal, and try to reduce to minimum any personal contact with her. She will feel very terrible and upset when you put the spotlight on her.

gone are the good old days when things can easily settled by fist fight outside the garden.

Has it been made absolutely clear, company-wide, that she is reporting to you?

I think in her previous job, she was in a similar position as you.. now it looks like a downgrade for her, hence all the damn pettiness / jealousy...

Basically you are dealing with a narcissist that play victim. Their behavior is purposely to make you questions your reality and when you submit to them, they win.

To know more, google about the topic of
1. Passive aggressive behavior
2. Narcissistic that play victims
3. Narcissist gaslighting

You will get a lot of tips from above topic.

Stay calm, dont get angry (I know you're angry, that is what she purposely wants from you).. record and exposed her, demand her perfection in work, she will get stress at the end.

This post has been edited by sp3d2: Jul 7 2024, 08:29 AM

This kind of person to that TS is dealing is kind of cunning but no so cunning. As we can really predict their next moves.

TS is the boss here, so he should be more careful.

I had one subordinate like this before, I chose not to fight, but to put back the pressure on him, then finally he resigned.

Talk to HR , make sure you get enough evidence / 3 strikes before you let her go. Always do counselling session until she ready resign or get sacked. Make sure it is minuted and sent to HR.

Seems like a person who doesn't like to be managed. maybe not suitable to work in a team. Does she behave like this with other superior/bosses or just with you...?

insubordination is already considered a misconduct in the office, grounds for termination.

do the same on her, keep all records of evidence that points to her poor performance and misconducts.

these are the tricks i have seen a company trying to get rid of someone

last time when my company wants to get rid of a manager (cakap saja but cannot do work one), they dig out all his internet surfing logs and attendance timing (late to office).

another one (this one was a good manager but somehow had a fall out with the top). They added an additional portfolio to her existing portfolio, creating a burden for her. She had to resign.

another one (i dont know him well enough). They transferred him to another department and made him do the dirty and dangerous job around the company. He had to resign.

another one (another good guy-manager, but somehow couldn't get along with the big boss) Big boss humiliated and shouted at him almost everyday until he resigned.

If it's poor performance, make sure you give her the timing for improvement.

if it's gross misconduct, make sure there is a committee that oversees the investigation.

This post has been edited by Blofeld: Jul 7 2024, 09:26 AM

pressure i can only put on her work quality, which is so shitty, so that is easy.

gathering evidence is so time consuming. all her behaviors have been recorded into the system.

she can deny them but i doubt that would work - cause all is truth!


if you are smart, i won't manage much.

But if you are bodoh, then act like I need to answer to you even when I am your superior, you are very delusional.

I did ask her if I should be the one who manages her or she would like to manage me.

She behaves like this in front of everyone else now, which is GREAT. cause all her true colors is shown. She has now pissed off many people. Neither do I need to try and hide her ugliness by sorting out this problem of hers.

I had designed a good project for her, then she mislead and somehow made her project looks 1/3 of mine, which is very low quality, then she took 1 month to argue with me again.

Then she quickly finished her work (terrible work as it's done in one evening) and demanded I to meet her.

I refused, insisting her to get on with her work and she still sent the meeting invite which I would reject. - I told you, she thinks she is the boss.

I am cautious giving additional pressure to her as she will be filing complains that I intentionally try to fail her in her progress and work completion. She can't even deliver the basic, so that is good!

That’s why I personally prefer the hard sciences with objective quantifiable results. For instance in medicine, primadonnas are tolerated and in fact respected if they continue to demonstrate exceptional skills - say the surgeon that can map out an approach to remove a tumour close to the spinal cord while minimising peripheral collateral damage.

Showbloating fakers get called out quickly because post operative outcomes are dismal and the mediolegal complaints quickly pile up.

It’s a self governing profession to a certain extent.

I don’t know what is it exactly you do, but I have the impression it’s not dealing with one of the hard sciences if you know what I mean. That’s why your Thai colleague has gotten away with her narcissistic primadonna “look at me but don’t look at me” bad attitude.

She wouldn’t have lasted a day if I were her boss.

You're definitely a patient man. The person is just deadweight and takes more of the company's (i.e. your) resources than what she's contributing.

Recommend for pip and send her to hr to be rotated someplace else.

That’s like tai chi’Ing her off to someone else’s turf for her to be a problem there hahaha

I like to say I'm delegating the problem to someone with more patience lol

No hard science to it. Life isn't always black and white.

You know how this land is so accommodating criminals and offenders than the innocents have to suffer most time.



If I pass her to someone else, I'll inform the other person her whole package.

This isn't about the question on patience anymore.

just sack her but be careful as she might be sucking someone c0ck to be so arrogant

She has a few white superiors whom she tricked before with her gullible innocent Thai girl look

Too bad, all her behaviors towards me is now known to everyone.

I don't want to cover for a perpetrator anymore. She poops, and she has to clean her own shit.

Oh yes. The classic “courage by c0ck slurping” syndrome of many an Asian AMDK lover.

this also brings to another awareness by a colleague of mine

he is also very aware that she isn't happy she is placed under me, instead of a AMDK.

Talk about asian woman hating their own people. It's shocking to many to hear my stories, because they thought we would have worked well together due to similar culture and background.

TL DR

if she is too much of hassle - just fire her. (get some reasonable reasons, otherwise she can sue back)

so you win already.

the fact she treat you like that is just because you allowed her to behave like that. thats all.

Incase you didn't know

Most cloud services for document storage/sharing/workflow have version history. So whatever stupid shit she did and saved in the cloud before, will be available for organisation to see. If you're using something like sharepoint, as long as you view access, you should also be able to view history.

If she's under you, then she's conlanfirm super bodoh.

I've purposely gave enough rope for incompetent people to hang themselves infront of important people during meetings. Followed up with meeting minutes email having that incompetence recorded and signed off in black and white. Sometimes you tell higher ups that this fella is sohai, no one really believes (they think people playing politic) to do anything until they see it themselves.

Like Dr. House!

Though I know you doctors sometimes also face this issue, dealing with the "softer" more "political" side of things that hinder you from doing your job properly or having the patient's interest at heart. So sometimes really no choice when you have to deal with idiots in admin/management. All jobs also the same

i need to be careful as others are watching how i manage her. i shouldn't even show a hint of misuse of power.


she always embarrasses herself in her every of her chess move, and with her not wanting to talk to me in private and prefer to talk to me in a group, and in group emails. ok, i have her wish come true.

don't cry i am a bully after that.

trust me. she is playing with your mind and will try her best to make sure you lost your sanity.

keep your friends close and your enemy closer. micromanage her activities and monitor her every single daily movements and activity. she will get frustrated. trust me.

she is, lots of gaslight happening, with her innocent pitiful look like she hasn't done anything wrong.

i did do that, she then asked - are you going to update you everyday?

then she once did say I micromanage her, as I ask for weekly updates which is very common and normal.

well, if the job is lousy, of course you need to micromanage. it is your right. nothing in company said micromanage is wrong. its a preference of boss.

Document everything clearly, especially incidents affecting team work. When discussing with management, focus on the impact on productivity.

when TS starts to promoting himself first, its already a red flag.

now, let me read the rest

EDIT:
i have read the rest. but its only YOUR point of view. Its very convenient to you since she unable to defend herself

This reminded me of my true story. i been framed once, and i havent even given a chance to defend myself.




This post has been edited by john123x: Jul 7 2024, 05:02 PM

i understand that now

we all know that, company focuses on quality work, not her kindie 6 year old work output.


im trying to provide a context of the situation.

Did you get justice in the end?

nope

i forever will not get justice

Of course in her pov, she's the innocent lamb who will get slaughtered by me.

I only focus on output. Nothing about a person.
The rest doesn't have problem too. What's so special about her.

Oh dear. Were you forced out unfairly?

then what do you expect me to do?

please think first before you read the spoiler.

Hard to comment without hearing the other side of the story, like you said about TS, but sorry for your experience bro.

A good manager/HR person will put the two parties together and talk it out.

I'm ready anytime to do that and she will have nowhere to hide her face, her lies, and her deceitful plan. Question me, interrogate me and I'm very ready to clear my name. Unlike her who needs to hide many things.

In your case, your management never gave you a chance to defend yourself. Your boss is stupid. He listened to hearsay and implicated you. Again very different from my case.

Office politics is one ugly shit. That's why I take no part in it and I'm purely focusing on output, not rubbing shoulders with top people.

What can you do? You could actually file for labor court for unfair dismissal since you've stated you're innocent.

Or You can work hard until one day you can become his boss. That's the sweetest revenge and it should be your motivation to work harder.

I had my project stolen by my previous superior, haunted me for many years. My profile is now much better than hers. That's the sweetest revenge. She still owes me a big apology.

LOL...................................

But yes, start the PIP process if you need to

My experience is that thai english is worse than indian..

Aiya, you cannot generalize like that bro...

Met with management today

Change team. Can't cause other teams have stricter leaders.
Next is observe her. Then out she goes.

Everytime I go to Thailand. It makes me more pissed how Thai people are so down to earth and friendly but she is so entitled.

I think she thinks her English is good. So she carries her air to a foreign land where her English is just average.

Looks like the clock has started ticking for her. Countdown to oblivion

ill buy someone here mcd the day i wave her good bye, sayonara, won't be missed, get the hell out of here.

Keep us posted.

Yes please keep us posted.

Do you work in a heavily unionized environment?

Sounds familiar. Dealt with these union people before.

This kind of people die die also will take it to the end to industrial court nonsense.

If your HR is determined enough: you can institute to get rid of her but you need HR help. Without their support, you are on your own.

Its actually a total waste of time to keep email to this kind of people. When you have so much to do, you have to spend so much time to keep black n white to defend against her never ending email evidence keeping.

She is actually wrong to tell you that meeting can only occur once a month. She is your subordinate, right? how can a subordinate tell her boss that she can only have meeting once a month? Kena her for insubordination.

This post has been edited by hoonanoo: Jul 11 2024, 02:53 PM

high union, but it's ok, my side of union is high too.

yup, she seems to be controlling when to have meeting, set meeting agendas, and make decisions herself.

i dunno what gets into her mind she can manage me around, maybe I look younger than her. But even management has said it's an age, race, and gender thing. Sad an asian is taunting another asian on a foreign land. She probably wants an old white male. when people take my kindness for granted

we will all meet tomorrow together. she has been pulling her strings looking for support, obviously that went 404.

top management has decided she either listens to us or off she goes.

I still don't understand this part.

Is she your direct report or not? If she is then it's easy to tell her off.

\definitely has to go.

tell her to buck up and drop her ego, be a team player.

Else...

yes, she is. and she doesn't careeeee

she will never be. but she also say her dream is to be like me (my job my life). but she isn't a team player, isn't keen to learn, fast to blame... she won't make it in life anywhere, sad to say.

Wont comment much as my "Uncle" style of management would be jeopardizing what you might had did till date but I'll stand with you on this opinion that "She has to go."

But just beware and go through the proper method as people like this usually had a few "bullets" in hand that can die together with you and the rest of your team, in case any of you peeps has something that prone to damage (aka relationship, skodengs, ugly stuff, trustworthiness etc)

But it was still shocking to hear its a Thai National.

In my case, I cannot tahan Malaysians. I have indons, Pinoys (also terrible) Viets, Pakis, Mainlanders, few Laotians, angmoh, and they all had certain sohainess in them.

Still, Malaysian is the worst. Maybe in education they're the best, but in social maturity, they're just a piece of shit. Even free also I wont hire a darn Msian ever again.

I do fear my life. Maybe one day she goes kuku then take a knife and suddenly stab me.

I'm shocked too. Everyone who hears my story is shocked too.. They won't believe it if they didn't hear it from me.

Can’t simply ‘let her go’

Likely have to put her under PIP, see if she improves and go from there

Oh lol, this post kena lipot.

I guess there's sakit buntut people everywhere. If you kenot tahan kena cucuk, then maybe consider excluding yourself from my generalization, not protecting those I generalized. Because if you do, that means you're just a part of them. Why would you mingle with a bunch of rotten apple that would rot you if you're staying with them for a bit longer? Haih kesian...

You really got a fan here 😂

What visa is she on? No job means sayonara back to Sawadee, or can she loiter around and hope to score an AMDK?

you just came in time. just done meeting. whole meeting manipulation, blaming, and say - how can i trust you (aka me)...

management says relationship is not recoverable.

her visa will be revoked if she is laid off. sayonara.. AMDK have to find back in Thai.

Is your position safe sis? God forbid, she's actually sleeping with an AMDK (aka your upper management) now ...

So what's the update now? Is she under PIP or she has to go?

Yes yes, please update us... cliffhanger

My position is very safe. Don't worry. I still hope to get my promotion this year

She must be bawling right now from all the 'accusation', 'lies', and 'blames' we put on her...



Bring in one more management person to find solutions.

Looks to me, relationship cannot be recovered, and she cannot listen to my/our instructions. there is only one solution.....

Can straight way let off? No need under PIP or warning letter x 2 etc?

Please send her to Reporting Skill Training. This newbies never learn how to report to superior.

it's in NZ. most criminals don't even get prisoned... you can imagine how nice they treat wrongdoers....

zero skills. just go back earn her Thai baht.

chii like this thread, very educational.
have TS ever try to find out why she acts the way she acts? or its just futile to know anyway now?

Its not her objective to make it in life.

Just sustain and suck co benefits until she retire.

Union people have this ingrown right to fight for their "democracy".

faster ship her out.

i did. she is a highly anxious person, and she would magnify the situation 10000x worse than it is. she can easily follow my instructions and do, but she thinks it will be impossible and so difficult.

i don't mind a highly anxious person, but what she does next is the problem - shifting blame, manipulating, gaslighting, and never take responsibility. then fault me. then i cannot accept.

i don't know why she does that - usually these people who have low self esteem? so much so she wants to dictate me? (in her dream!)

yeah, she won't make it in life with how she behaves.

we are done with her actually... she is draining!

BUT YOU COULD HAVE TOLD ME EARLIER

BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE INFORMED ME PRIOR

bloody, plan changes, and we need to modify stuff to deliver an A grade work, just do it.


so to everyone, don't be fooled by nice decent modest Thai looking woman. You will end up committing to a cra cra.

Actually I never had issue with Thai colleagues, they are very pleasant people.

The way you described her, she's exceptional. But reminds me of those self entitled union delegates I encountered in Msia.

Thai people are very very very pleasant. I was in Thailand this year, and I can never understand how a Thai could act like this.

You have a thing against union people

No I don't have.

I worked with union people for many years.

Its a choice, if you want comfortable life, then blend in like one of them.

DOn't play play with Thai. She could put you on curse or charm if you press her too much. Just do per SOP and use documentation well.

She just nailed herself in the coffin


She replied email said her team leaders (including me) not competent enough to guide her 😂

Maybe she hopes the whole team will be sacked and replaced with one that will dance to her tune.

She’s the best!

you said it...she has to go. this kinda attitude and work ethics, put her under microscope and everything is documented for her deliverables and what not. Work with HR and document the procedures accordingly.

Let her go

Your company has a culture that it needs to maintain

If she is not a good fit for the culture, let her go and keep interviewing until you get a good fit