That is why you have to look at all the translations available. The best is still to look back at the greek or hebrew.

The word used there is "eis" = "into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among.

Whether it's turn to God for repentance or repentance towards God, Both are indicative of changing your mind towards God.

What is it that you're changing your mind about? That is the question.

Can you repent unto God if you think that God is an evil God? Most would not. That has to be the 1st thing to be considered from Lay person's pov.

But the moment you relent and submit that God is a good God, all that He asked of, is it for your good? It can be pointed to be so if you believe God is a good God.

It's how we present the gospel correctly, it matters.

This is how repentance takes place in the believer's heart.

And it take trust in God for God to work.

Root = Faith in God
Fruit = Work of God in believer's life.

As for whether St Dismas was baptized prior to his death, that remains a speculation.

What is speculation cannot be used as theology. Else many assumption then can be made as doctrine.

But what was recorded was indeed his believe that Christ is the one. That thief must have heard the rumors' or someone talking about Christ, his divine work to prove that He came from God.

Normally criminals punished at the cross are the worse kind that are not given much grace, what more the privilege's to be baptized.

Actually, catholic didn't say they are saved by their work. it is fitting to look into their view

Are Catholics Saved by Good Works?
Oct 24
Written By Laila

As a Protestant, I believed that there was nothing I could do to earn my salvation. I trusted that Jesus had done it all- All that I had to do was simply believe. I looked down at Catholics because I thought that they believed they had to earn their salvation. “Catholics think they can get into Heaven just by doing good works”. I missed the mark- big time.

First, I misunderstood how important faith is to Catholics. I believed that Catholics didn’t have personal relationships with God. I truly thought they just believed they could get into Heaven by doing good works.

Secondly, I misunderstood the importance of good works in my own salvation. Never once does the Bible say we’re saved by “faith alone”. Even the verses that are often misconstrued to teach faith alone, don’t mention it. (Romans 3:28, Galatians 2:16, Ephesians 2:8–9). However, the Bible DOES say in James 2:24, “ You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” (ESV, emphasis added).

Once saved always saved
As a Protestant who was brought up with some Calvinistic beliefs, I held to the doctrine commonly referred to as, “once saved, always saved.” which comes from Romans 5:1, “ Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (ESV).

I was under the impression that the justification of the believer was a one time completed action which happens when you say that little prayer “inviting Jesus into your heart”. Similarly, with regard to salvation, I grew up with the belief that there is nothing that can separate a true believer from Christ- not even sin. I was once saved, always saved because I thought I was fully justified ever since I was 5 years old when I accepted Jesus into my heart.

Because righteousness is a synonym for justification, I looked at what Paul wrote about Abraham in Galatians 3:6, “So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness”(ESV). (The Greek word used here which is translated as “righteousness” is dikaiosunes, which can be translated either as “righteousness” or as “justification"1)

As a Protestant I thought, “it doesn’t get any clearer than that! Abraham was justified once and for all at the moment that he believed.” Not only is this proof of faith alone, but it’s evidence that justification is a completed transaction at the moment the believer comes to Christ.1

Cooperation with God’s Grace
The Catholic Church actually agrees with some of that, on a couple points.

“First, as baptized Catholics, we can agree that we have been justified and we have been saved. Thus, in one sense, our justification and salvation is in the past as a completed action. The initial grace of justification and salvation we receive in baptism is a done deal.”1

However, Catholics believe there is more to the story. “Scripture reveals that it is precisely through this justification and salvation the new Christian experiences in baptism that he enters into a process of justification and salvation requiring his free cooperation with God’s grace.”1

See, where I was wrong in my old belief was that I thought that my justification and salvation was a one time deal, it happened ONE time and it was over.

I did not realize that we are called to grow in righteousness/justification- remember, righteousness is a synonym for justification - and we do that by good works.

“Good works are a part of the Christian life. We grow in our righteousness, or in our justification, over the course of the Christian life by doing good works in cooperation with God’s grace.” 2. As Paul writes in Ephesians 2:10, we are created in Christ FOR good works.

Where Protestants Can Miss The Mark
“The major part of the puzzle here that our Protestant friends are missing is that there are many biblical texts revealing both justification and salvation to have a future and contingent sense as well as a past sense. In other words, justification and salvation also have a sense in which they are not complete in the lives of believers.”1

Where does this come from? Here’s some verses to dive into:

Romans 6:16 : Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? (ESV)

Matthew 10:22 : And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be. (ESV)

Romans 13:11 : ... for salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. (ESV)

1 Corinthians 5:5 : You are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. (ESV)

Romans 2:13-16 : For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (ESV)

Another point we can agree with our Protestant friends on is that Abraham was justified through the gift of faith he received from God. The Catholic Church acknowledges what the text clearly says: “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” (Romans 4:3, ESV).

However, there is more to this text as well. While the Catholic Church agrees that Abraham was justified by faith in Genesis 15:6 as Paul said in Romans 4:3, the Church also notes that Abraham was justified at other times in his life as well. This indicates justification has an on-going aspect to it, not just a “one and done” moment in time.1

Abraham is also revealed to have already been justified at other times as well:

James 2:21- “Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?” (ESV)

Hebrews 11:8, “By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.” (ESV)

So what do Catholics believe about good works?
“When you talk about how we can’t merit salvation, or we can’t do anything to merit salvation. The Catholic Church agrees with that if you’re talking about the initial grace of salvation that comes to us. We can’t do anything to merit that initial gift of faith or that initial gift of salvation. That’s why Ephesians 2:8-9 says "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.” but then he goes on to say in verse 10, “For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” 3 So what he’s saying here is that before our conversion (before we put Christ as the Lord and Savior of our life), there is nothing we can do. However, once we enter into Christ, then we must begin to work. 3

Why must we begin to work?
Good works are important to Catholics because we will be rewarded for them. “We don’t do good works to get into a state of justification; good works flow from the state of justification, and ultimately rewards us for having done those in the next life” 4 .

One of the rewards of our good works is eternal life! Romans 2:6-7, “God “will repay each person according to what they have done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.” (NIV).
“Eternal life is one of the rewards for the good works done, not before Christ, not a part from Christ, but IN Christ” 5
Our Protestant brothers and sisters believe that good works simply PROVE your justification. But we as Catholics believe that “while that initial grace of salvation and justification can’t be merited in any sense. Once we enter in, we must continue to be justified, or as the council of Trent taught, “to increase our state of justice.” St. Thomas Acquinas said, “you’re either growing in justice or you’re dead.” 5

Why Faith Alone Isn’t Enough
Yes, faith is important, it’s VITAL. But we can’t just pick and choose the Bible verses that we like in order to form our own theological views, we have to view Scripture in its entirety, even if we don’t like what it says. As St. Augustine said, “If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself.”

The Catholic Church does not divide these various elements of salvation up, overemphasizing some while ignoring others; rather, she holds them all in their fullness"6

To help illustrate that “believing” is not enough, here is a list of 5 Scripture passes that show where the Catholic Church gets this teaching from7:

James 2:24 (ESV), “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone”

Romans 2:6-7 (ESV), “He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life”

Matthew 12:36-37 (ESV) “I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Matthew 25:31-46 is the scene of the final judgment where Jesus separates the sheeps from the goats. The only difference between the sheep and the goats is what they did and didn’t do. They all called Jesus Lord, but Jesus separates them and sends them either to Heaven or Hell based on what they did and didn’t do.

Galatians 6:6-9 (ESV), “Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.”

Good Works In Depth
Now, let’s discuss the two types of “good works” in order to clear up any kind of confusion.

There are good works that are done by human nature.

We believe that these are meaningless. See, prior to the point of justification, it is impossible for us to perform works by God’s grace because God’s grace isn’t acting in our souls yet. Tim Staples says, “ it is impossible for us to do supernaturally good works prior to the point in our lives where we convert and we’re justified.”4

There is nothing that we can do prior to justification that will EARN the grace of justification.

Then there are good works that are done by God’s grace.

These are the works that do matter as St. Paul says we are created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10).

These are what we perform out of cooperation with God’s grace. “Cooperating with the grace of God to allow God to flourish in us. It is not enough to passively allow grace to declare us justified, we must actively take up the task of growing in righteousness and we accomplish this by participating and growing in the theological virtues of faith, hope and love”8

By cooperating with God’s grace, we increase our state of justice, or justification, before him. And if we are faithful until death, we will receive eternal life. As Revelation 2:10 says, “Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life” (ESV).

So to summarize, here is the order of operations:

We come to God, we believe, we repent, we get baptized- that’s the point at which in the ordinary course of affairs, he justifies us and gives us grace. Then over the course of the Christian life, we grow in his grace. "And because we have his grace working in our souls now, it’s now possible for us to do supernaturally good works.”2

So essentially, there are good works that mean NOTHING- they don’t count for anything because they are done before we have received God’s grace of justification. But then there are works that DO have meaning because they are done after we have received God’s grace.

To Wrap It All Up
"When Catholics read of Abraham “justified by faith” in Romans 5, we believe it. But we don’t end there. For when Catholics read of Abraham “justified by works” in James 2 we believe that as well.

For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has taken all of Sacred Scripture into the core of her theology harmonizing all of the biblical texts. Thus, we can agree with our Protestant friends and say as Christians we have been (past tense) justified and saved through our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross."

But we also agree with our Lord that there is another sense in which we are being saved and justified by cooperation with God’s grace in our lives, and we hope to finally be saved and justified by our Lord on the last day: I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned (Matt. 12:36-37).1

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 20 2023, 02:42 PM

Actually I'm not surprised why you posted that. Already suspected your believes was in Catholic or near Catholic's denomination all along.

But that is your prerogative.

Just that there are a few areas I don't agree with what was written by Laila. The scripture verses quoted are not really in context to which I'm lazy to expound one by one but if anyone wants to point out which exactly I wouldn't mind to do one or two.

But here is where I disagree with Catholic's view.

She said "....and we hope to finally be saved and justified by our Lord on the last day" What in the world? You mean you have no idea whether you'd be saved on the last day?

Is that how Hebrews 11 expound on Faith? I don't think so.

Many times in the Bible, God uses phrases and words with strong assurance of our Salvation. Never about Doubt.

Scripture clearly tells us ..Anything comes from doubt is Sin.

Hence why I strongly share devotions that encourages robust faith.

And We believe Christ work to remove our sins is once and for all. It isn't initial grace and the rest depends on you.

Hebrews 7:27 (NIV) - Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

Hebrews 10:10 (NIV) - And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


These 2 verse are quite clear. I don't know which part of "once for all" is hard to understand.

As long as you keep the Faith ie keep believing everyday what Christ did on the cross is eternal, repenting (changing your mind) everyday that your sins have been dealt at the cross, you will find that there is no barrier between you and God.

This 2 verse has help me so much and I find that my spiritual walk with God is never hindered by anything.

I wanted to share some testimony about God dealings in my life. Perhaps I should.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 20 2023, 03:09 PM

You know with regards to James 2 Faith without works is dead?

The works here couple with faith is needed I believe to accomplish God's needed work here on earth.

The work to provide for the needy or poor, to minister to someone. <---Context.

It's not about to attain Salvation.

well, that is what catholic is and they did refer to a verse

"But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." (Matthew 12:36-37)

if someone haven't forgotten, his post is actually mostly based on single verse quoted from bible. Out of context, well, that is just somebody's personal opinion.

that is what i would like to caution here, bible as you read is just a translation. to emphasis a single word and blow a whole theology out of it is dangerous. As someone said, context is important. Right?

Yes context is important.

Which is why I quoted these 2 verses.

Hebrews 7:27 (NIV) - Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

Hebrews 10:10 (NIV) - And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Christians are sanctified by Christ blood once and for all. I don't believe God's grace is just initial and after that it's up to you, whether you get Salvation or not depends on how good you obey, repented or performed, That to me degrade the finish work of Christ if not insulting the spirit of his grace. It also makes it a Man based Salvation rather than God's finished work.

I believe the blood of Christ is eternal, not temporal. <--Key. If we are made holy apart from our works, If we never got Salvation by our works, this indicates it's ALL spiritual in nature, God is the one who does it. If God is the one who does it then it is assured according to his word, the finishing line is also by God as long as we keep the faith.

With that being said, whatever mistakes we do, whatever sin we commit as Christian, words spoken or acted...the Blood of Christ avails and speaks for us.

This doctrine has proven to be working and working even until now and I see God working tremendously in my life and those around me. It's pointless for me to keep defending this if it's just all empty talks.

Isn't the Christian life about living with a supernatural God? The things that happened are no coincidences but God's divine interventions? Too much has happened for me to know God is real and working in my life.

As with regards to Matthew 12:36-37 they are directed to the Pharisees (they didn't believe in Christ). Hence they will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.

What is the point for Christian to get punished for sin, ie to give an account if Christ died for our sins? Did He pay or did He not pay for our sins? Sometimes I wonder if anyone would consider the blood of Christ, is it just temporal or eternal in it's application. This is something deep actually to consider. For me I see eternal.

PS:

For Christians, the type of account that we need to give to the Father determine our rewards or no rewards in Heaven. It's not to punish us to eternal condemnation.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 20 2023, 05:06 PM

I would caution that we limit the applicability of certain verse. As it is to be like what those joker in the west do

There is confusion on the work of the Holy Spirit. He convicts of sin. And this work begins even before conversion. When we resist the workings of the Holy Ghost it scuttle the whole salvation process. In Gen6:3 "my Spirit shall not always strive with man". The convicting work of the Holy Spirit continues as after conversion. That's why it says grieve not the Holy Ghost.
After conversion the Holy Spirit indwells believer ie they possess eternal life. He gives them power to live above sin. He enables us to exercise spiritual gifts. He gives life to our mortal bodies. He leads us when we walk after him. He produces the character of Christ in us ie fruits of the Spirit. He prepares and equips us for ministry. He gives us the revelation of God's word. He teaches us. He comforts us.

What does fixing our eyes on Christ means?

Hebrews 12:2 (NIV) - fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Morning Guys, Much Grace to all you. I mean all of you in here.

Thank You for your contributions. I was hoping for Christians to contribute anyway and it's happening.

We all have our callings in life, Mine is to encourage faith and hope in the Lord Jesus Christ. Perhaps your calling is to help people understand sin.

Every believer have their gifting. Continue with what you're doing if you know it's for the Lord.

There must be a balance and the word of God correctly divided.

As believers according to the word of God, after you have been saved, your responsibility is to keep your eyes on Jesus Christ. And remember all that He has done for you. I do not believe as people of God, you are to consistently to keep wallowing in sin, thinking about sin all the time. How come? Well you need to reflect on this question. Has the blood of Jesus cleansed you of all your sins or do you think He hasn't? <--- This is the battle that the devil fight so hard to keep you in doubt. Why? When you have doubt on Christ's blood, you remain defeated all the time. You think your sins is more powerful than Christ's Blood. Let me tell you that is lie. The devil wants God's people to keep wallowing in their sin. But God wants his people to know they have been set free.

So choose this day, where you're going to keep your eyes on. Because that is key to your freedom.

And This is a command from God.

Hebrews 12: 1-3 (NIV) says it like this

1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,
2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

Verse 1 is saying throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. What it means is that, make up your mind that you're no longer going to live as you have done in the past as one who is not saved. Understand where you're going. Heaven is a place that is pure and has no sin. You need to understand you have to get use to living in heaven, might as well start now itself, otherwise you need to reflect with what you're doing. Will you get use to living in Heaven with God? <----Something for you to ponder. The power to live right lies in the secret that you need to believe in God to work via the Holy Spirit in your heart. It is not you conjuring your own effort, gritting your teeth, using self discipline, using your own will power to refrain from sin. If you think that this is so, friend, you have not been reading the Bible right. PM me for more info on this and I'll gladly update you.

Verse 2 is the main gist of my devotion today. KEEP your eyes on Jesus. What does that even mean? Have you thought about it? Keeping your eyes on Jesus means that you live your life 24/7, remembering Christ of what He has done for you, which is; His Blood has removed your sins as far as to the East is to the West. As Christians, we need to live with a changed mind (repented) that we no longer have sin in our lives. If you think you still do, you are not living according to what scripture teaches. If Jesus Christ has removed your sins, then it is so even if you don't feel like it. It's not whether you feel like it but what God's word says that matters. Your feelings goes up and down in a day but God's word is consistent truth. If God's word says your sins have been wiped clean then received that truth even if your feelings tells you no. This is why Faith is so important. Do not downplay mental assent, it is very vital that you come into agreement with God on the matter of sin. Why? Because that foundational truth will determine whether you will live on shaky ground or solid ground spiritually.

I'm speaking on reality, not fantasy. When you live the Christian Life, you will fall and commit sin at times. If or when you do, here is the secret. ALWAYS remember the cross of our Lord. Confess your prayer in this manner;

"My Lord Jesus Christ, I thank you, the sin or wrong I've just recently committed, they have been judged at the cross and redeemed by your blood. I receive the forgiveness of sin you have provided. Help me to move on in my life by your Holy Spirit." This is the prayer of faith, your faith in Christ and it is scriptural. From my years of living with the Lord, I can tell you, It is no point for you to wallow, do remorse emotion or attempt to restitution SOP. Judas the betrayer went through all that sincerely but it didn't change him. IN fact it drove to commit the mother of all sin. The sin of self-righteousness, he thought by taking his own life, he could pay back to God. Only the blood of Christ matters to God, not even your obedience to God (though God wants obedience) can save you.

As long as you keep your eyes on Christ, I promise you by the word of God, nothing can shake your faith. Your prayers will be powerful. You will see God winning on your behalf in spiritual warfare against Satan and his forces of darkness.

Verse 3 When there are oppositions and there will be, remember how Christ endured. You are not alone. Every brother and sister in Christ in this world goes through all kind of challenges and oppositions. Every believer does, that is a promised stated in scripture. So take heart. Why? Because remember Christ has won against this world. Our Lord Jesus is really cool. He didn't allow oppositions to get the better of him, but sometime we do, being human. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the one we "NEED" to look up to. Not any pastors, not any saints, not any human being, no matter how good the person is.

Why consider Christ Jesus so that we won't grow weary and lose heart? It is to your own benefit that you study the life of Jesus Christ. You want to know how God the Father is, Jesus Christ is the exact representation. God is kind, and even when he convict, it is heart-warming, doesn't hurt his own sheep. When we are hard towards others, we hurt others. Look at the way He convict the Samaritan women at the well of her sins. He was divinely tactful. He complimented her, "you are right, that you have not one husband but five..." In the Greek, You have said rightly or honorably". Some of us expect tongue lashing, you wicked and adulterous person! But not so with Christ.

He could sternly force a pack of scheming Pharisees to back off in one instance, challenging them by saying, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first” (John 8:7). In the very next moment, this same Jesus could look straight into the eyes of a broken woman caught in adultery, and with compassion resonating deeply in His voice, ask her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you? Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more” (John 8:10–11).

This is what I meant, you will never find Jesus being angry with people who come to Him. This is my God.

God will never force you to do anything. Every time people reject him, he just move on to other places. God is a gentleman at heart when to comes to your free will. He will invite you and knock at your door. God will never barge your door down. If you expect that, you don't know God.

Christ came to heal the sick, deliver people from their demons and yet we can spit on Him, Mock Him using all kind of vulgarity. Yet Christ loves us. The Love of God is not natural, it is really out of this world and supernatural. This is why I choose to believe in Him over every other religion.

So consider Christ who faced against all oppositions for your sake. He faced them for the sake of your victory. Consider this perfect Hero who deserve all our praise.

I pray this devotion will help you. God Bless.

When we talk about Holy Spirit convicting of sin, we need to teach in context and not just simply brush generally even if it sound right.


John 16:8 - 11 (NLT) - And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment. The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me. Righteousness is available because I go to the Father, and you will see me no more. Judgment will come because the ruler of this world has already been judged.

The Holy Spirit convicts the world (Not believers) of sin because (verse 9) they refuse to believe in Christ. <---THIS conviction is for non believers.
The Holy Spirit convicts Righteousness available (to Believers) (verse 10) as Christ has ascended denoting Salvation, Sanctification, Holiness given once for all. <--THIS conviction is for believers.
The Holy Spirit convicts Judgement (to non believers) as they need to make choice, either accept Christ or the Devil. The devil has been judged. <---THIS conviction is for non believers.

You know, you can be saved anywhere, not necessary has to be in church building. Nowadays you can listen to sermon online even, the invitation for sinners prayer can be done right where you are. After all God is omnipresence.

Just for awareness, Salvation is the work of God. Normally it is the work of the Holy Spirit who convicts, calls the person to repentance and to prompt the person to confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Bible has made it clear if God is not the one who bring the person, he cannot come to God. So without a shadow of doubt, Salvation is spiritual work in nature. Salvation work stems from God himself. Which why I endeavor to tell people, there can be no mixture of Man's effort to qualify in attaining Salvation. God would not allowed it, none what so ever. He will not share such Glory.

Very clearly in the Bible, God tells us Salvation is a grace gift. We are saved by grace, not of ourselves. It is not just laws of Judaism but anything "not" of ourselves. Do you see the key word here?

With that being said, this is why repentance can never be a pre-requisite neither a criteria for Salvation. In contrast, I also never teach anyone, there is no need for repentance. One is talking about qualifying, One is talking about
cooperation with God for change. There is a huge difference here. I think many have a hard time differentiating this. The greatest opposition to this is always the question; if one does not repent, can one be saved? I will answer this question at the very last end. I hope you will understand at the end of it.

BTW Talking about repentance, most people would think repentance is only pertaining to sin. It is not. Repentance for the believer is going on all the time and not about sin but can also be about God as well. Example. you used to think God is only interested to catch you at your sin. But now you can think God is only interested in you for your good. That is also repentance. So don't just narrow it down to sin. It's not.

Walking to church and all that is not even relevant to the context, hence I don't know why it's being brought up, not unless you're missing the point.

If you know how to quote, it is by grace, you are able to walk into boat or obey God, I hope you understand what it means. Grace basically means God's favor given to you unmerited; If God is not the one who work in you, you won't be able to. If you could only understand the meaning here, you will soon realize, it would not be right of you to demand this or that. Do you know who you are demanding against really?

Water baptism is the same as baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is another matter altogether. In a nutshell it is the public declaration of our faith in Jesus Christ. We can all agree water baptism does not saves. For us, water Baptism is an outward public declaration to the natural world and the spiritual world (The Heavens) that one has step into, buried in death, step out of Sin penalty for death, rise again justified by Christ's finished work.

Romans 6:3-4 (NIV) - Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Colossians 2:12 (NIV) - having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Simply put, Baptism is we identifying with our Lord’s death, burial, and resurrection, and declaring that we have cross over into new life via our faith in God working. <--This is the correct context.
BTW we must always remember who is the one with power behind your faith. Your faith gives consent for God to work and God is the one producing fruits in your life.

In teaching I think it's important to be clear and to be sure in what we teach less people get confuse.

Sigh. Hebrews 11 is defining what faith is about. Water Baptism is not the thing that gives substance to faith. I don't know why this is even link to it.

NIV is quite good in defining it.

Hebrews 11:1 (NIV) - Now faith = confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Meaning Faith = you are confident in what you hope for, will happen (though you do not see it yet). The assurance is liken that you have a title deed to a property, you know you have this inheritance.

Yes that kind of confidence. Why and How come? Well because the one behind the promise is God and God is faithful and does not lie.

The reason for Romans 5:19 is to let everyone know, God only recognize and accepts Christ's obedience as something valid for crediting righteousness to the believer. Doesn't make any sense to add in your obedience into the equation when none is provided for.

If there is still disagreement to all that I've said above then it's my turn to ask this.

Do you dare claim your obedience is perfect all the time to God? If you know you are not perfect all the time, how are you going to make it to heaven?

Do you see the problem here? The emphasize is on the believer's performances. When you feel you are strong, you think your obedience is what keeps you out of the penalty of sin. But when you fail, You want to turn back to Jesus, ask for forgiveness then repent, hoping that will save you?

When everything is ok, the onus is one you, but when fail, you go back to the One who is actually the real savior.

This is never the Gospel and it doesn't honor God at all. The Gospel is about Christ saving you 24/7, hence the meaning savior. This is why I keep asking, do you understand the meaning of Savior? Nobody seems to understand that.

That is why the Bible tells us to keep ourselves in Christ. This is what it means. Everyday when one wakes up, you can pray to God; there is a lot of saving to do in your life. And you know what? Such requests pleases God because it's not difficult for Him.

It's not about you maintaining your Salvation. You can't maintain it anyway because Salvation is Spiritual in nature. It takes a spiritual being (God) to keep you & to save you. You will be disqualify despite you trying to repent. You know why? You have completely ignore the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus which God the Father accepts as the only work that qualifies.

Take your time to digest before you attempt to react to this. Just digest this for few days.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 21 2023, 03:20 PM

Let see what you have there. unlimited atonement, irresistible grace, unconditional election and most notably eternal security.

correct? that look similar with what our friend, Joseph Prince down at the south enjoy preaching. Personally I have no much problem with Joseph as he didn't diehard pushing for donation like another brother down there. speaking of which, did that brother out of jail dy? anyway, i get that you want to tell audience in church things they like to hear but there is nothing you can pleased harden people. You see, some church in the attempt to please general population had gone to declare homosexual is not a sin and went through mental gymnastic to say that only the act of homosexuality out of lust is a sin.

that is just sad

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 22 2023, 11:09 AM

Morning Guys, Much Grace to all the readers here, every one of you, even my critic.

Thank you again for your contribution.

It's not my intention to boast about this but for your blessing, with the hope, you will also emulate this. I will share bits of my personal life, and some testimonies as time go by.

I seek The Lord every day. I commune with Him every single day if possible. Sure there are a couple of days missed in the month but I make it point that, it's a MUST to meet God every day. It's one of my Christian life's SOP. And you know what? You will never regret doing this.

You are never more blessed with God than without. I can testify, this is true in experience.

Because I was also seeking to end whatever argument there is about Salvation, The Lord gave me this particular verse and to me, it's a sign, He is also witnessing what is happening here.

Titus 3:5 (NIV) - He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

This verse is a strong indication, whatever righteous things we do, whether it's our obedience to God or our repentance to God or whatever it is, does not give us a right to Salvation.

There is only 1 reason why God give us Salvation. ONLY ONE REASON.

God saves us because of his mercy. <===THIS.

If God requires your obedience and your repentance, this verse would have said so.

With that being said, because there could be a new reader who did not follow from the beginning, does it mean no obedience or repentance is ever involved in your Christian living?

Of course not.

I urge obedience because of who God is. He is God Almighty. God is always right, He knows everything from beginning to end. So submit to one who has all the power and who knows everything. You will be wasting your time trying to pit against God. This will be true throughout eternity.

I urge repentance because we were never created to live in a fallen world where there is so much perversion. Satan has perverted the original design of God for living. Do you know, you were never meant to eat by the sweat of your brow? Meaning you won't have it easy? You were supposed to have it easy. Just one example of why repentance is needed. You need to change your mind (repent) and see how God sees things. This is for Christians, I said Christians ya? There are many things more. You might ask, what about sin?

I guess I'll have to prepare a devotion for that one of these weeks. But until then, remember;

We are saved for 1 single reason. One reason. God's mercy. It's who God is. He is merciful and loving.

God Bless.

most notably

And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules” (Ezekiel 36:22-27)

Hebrews 8:10 ESV
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


The New Covenant Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”


2 Corinthians 3:3
3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.[a]

Psalm 51:10 ESV
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

Hebrews 10:16 ESV
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,”

On the same page as you. Thank you.