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 LYN Christian Fellowship Thread Ver 16, Welcome Christians, Love is the greatest

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desmond2020
post Feb 28 2023, 01:31 PM

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that is strange, someone with all those single bible verse sermon saying context is important. which is much in irony.

and later Paul write in next chapter:-

12 Not that I have already [g]grasped it all or have already become perfect, but I press on if I may also take hold of that [h]for which I was even taken hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not regard myself as having taken hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Therefore, all who are [i]mature, let’s have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that to you as well; 16 however, let’s keep [j]living by that same standard to which we have attained.

17 Brothers and sisters, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us. 18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even as I weep, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ, 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their [k]appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who have their minds on earthly things. 20 For our [l]citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our lowly condition into conformity with [m]His glorious body, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

Well, you all can read what it means

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 28 2023, 01:44 PM
desmond2020
post Feb 28 2023, 01:34 PM

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so pastor, if we are convinced we are free of sin due to blood of christ, then even if we do sin then that sin is already been forgiven?

in other word, jesus die on the cross for our sins, past, present and future?

is it true that, once one is saved, there is no sins he can do to cause him lost his salvation?
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 01:50 PM

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Let me put it into perspective that make sense to reason it out.

If you are saved, why do you want to sin? I mean, think about it.

It doesn't make sense to say that you are saved but you still want to sin. That sentence is not even logical in itself because it is self-contradicting.

Perhaps there maybe situation where the Gospel was offered in such a way...You can be saved in the Name of Christ but was not told of the complete gospel which is to repent from sin. I pin that on the one who shared the gospel wrongly.

Normally if you share the gospel correctly, sin would have been brought up, hence it would not be the issue.

Either you were never saved in the first place or you were shared with incomplete gospel.

I believe born again believers understand sin is wrong and thus it is a no no.








desmond2020
post Feb 28 2023, 01:50 PM

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oh, and let see what John Mcacthur said

work out your salvation with fear and trembling; (2:12e)The fifth motive for believers’ working out their sanctification is understanding the consequences of sin. Although God is loving, merciful, and forgiving, He nevertheless holds believers accountable for disobedience. Like John, Paul understood well that “if we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–9). Knowing that he serves a holy and just God, the faithful believer will always live with fear and trembling. Fear translates phobos, which describes fright or terror (cf. Matt. 14:26; Luke 21:26; 1 Cor. 2:3) as well as reverential awe (cf. Acts 2:43; 9:31; 2 Cor. 5:11; 7:1). Trembling is from tromos, which refers to shaking and is the word from which the English word tremor derives. Both of those are proper reactions to the awareness of one’s own spiritual weakness and the power of temptation. The Lord seeks such an attitude in His children, as His words in Isaiah 66:2 indicate: “To this one I will look, to him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.”

An important Old Testament truth is “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” (Ps. 111:10; cf. Prov. 1:7; 9:10). This is not a fear of being doomed to eternal torment, nor a hopeless dread of judgment that leads to despair. It is rather a reverential fear, a holy concern to give God the honor He deserves and avoid the chastening of His displeasure. Such fear protects against temptation and sin and gives motivation for obedient, righteous living.

Aware of his own personal weakness, Paul spoke of his “fear and … trembling” as he ministered to the church in Corinth (1 Cor. 2:3), and later of those believers who received Titus with the same kind of “fear and trembling” (2 Cor. 7:15). This kind of “fear and trembling” is closely related both to obedience to the Lord and to love and affection for Him and for fellow believers. It is for that reason that Solomon could declare: “How blessed [happy] is the man who fears always” (Prov. 28:14).

Such fear involves self-distrust, a sensitive conscience, and being on guard against temptation. It necessitates opposing pride, and being constantly aware of the deceitfulness of one’s heart, as well as of the subtlety and strength of one’s inner corruption. It is a dread that seeks to avoid anything that would offend and dishonor God.

Believers should have a serious dread of sin and yearning for what is right before God (cf. Rom. 7:14ff.). Aware of their weakness and the power of temptation, they should fear falling into sin and thereby grieving the Lord. Godly fear protects them from wrongfully influencing fellow believers, compromising their ministry and testimony to the unbelieving world, enduring the Lord’s chastening, and from sacrificing joy.

To have such godly fear and trembling involves more than merely acknowledging one’s sinfulness and spiritual weakness. It is the solemn, reverential fear that springs from deep adoration and love. It acknowledges that every sin is an offense against holy God and produces a sincere desire not to offend and grieve Him, but to obey, honor, please, and glorify Him in all things. Those who fear the Lord willingly accept the Lord’s chastening, knowing that God “disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness” (Heb. 12:10). This fear and trembling will cause believers to pray earnestly for God’s help in avoiding sin, as the Lord taught them: “Do not lead us into temptation, but deliver [rescue] us from evil” (Matt. 6:13). That prayer again reflects the spiritual tension that exists between believers’ duty and God’s power.

Work out translates a present middle imperative of katergazomai and indicates a command that has a continuing emphasis. The idea is, “Keep on working out to completion, to ultimate fulfillment.” Heauton, here rendered your, actually has the more emphatic meaning of “your own.” The command is for believers to make a continuing, sustained effort to work out to ultimate completion their salvation, which has been graciously granted to them by God through their faith in Jesus Christ.

The principle of working out salvation has two aspects. The first pertains to personal conduct, to faithful, obedient daily living. Such obedience obviously involves active commitment and personal effort, for which Scripture is replete with injunctions, both negative and positive. Sin in every form is to be renounced and put off and replaced by righteous thinking. Believers are to cleanse themselves “from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God” (2 Cor. 7:1), setting their minds “on the things above, not on the things that are on earth,” because they have died to sin and their lives are now “hidden with Christ in God” (Col. 3:2–3). Just as they once “presented [their] members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness,” they should “now present [their] members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification” (Rom. 6:19), walking “in a manner worthy of the calling with which [they] have been called” (Eph. 4:1).

The apostle exhorted the Corinthians to strenuous effort in living the Christian life: Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified. (1 Cor. 9:24–27)His words later in the present letter also demand aggressive Christian living: Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained. (Phil. 3:12–16)He exhorted Timothy: “Flee from these [evil] things, you man of God, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness. Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses” (1 Tim. 6:11–12; cf. 4:15–16; Heb. 12:1–3). To the Colossians Paul wrote: So, those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. And beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful. Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God. Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father. (Col. 3:12–17; cf. vv. 5–11)If living the Christian life were merely a matter of passive yielding and surrender, of “letting go and letting God,” then such admonitions not only would be superfluous but presumptuous. But those injunctions, and countless others like them throughout God’s Word, presuppose believers’ personal responsibility for obedience. They must choose to live righteously, to work out their salvation in daily living, while at the same time realizing that all the power for that obedience comes from God’s Spirit.

The second aspect of working out one’s salvation is perseverance, of faithful obedience to the end. Salvation has three time dimensions: past, present, and future. The past dimension is that of justification, when believers placed their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord and were redeemed. The present dimension is sanctification, the time between a believer’s justification and his death or the Rapture. The future aspect is glorification, when salvation is completed and believers receive their glorified bodies. Believers therefore have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved. They are to pursue sanctification in this life to the time of glorification. In that glorious moment believers will see the Lord “face to face” and come to know fully even as they are fully known (1 Cor. 13:12). They “will be like Him, because [they] will see Him just as He is” (1 John 3:2). It was for that glorious moment that Paul so deeply longed. Looking forward to that time he exclaimed: More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil. 3:8–14)Because the fulfillment of that hope was a divinely decreed certainty, Paul could say with complete confidence that “salvation is nearer to us than when we believed” (Rom. 13:11). Although it is not yet completed, the testimony of Scripture is that every believer’s salvation is utterly secure.

In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus declared, “The one who endures to the end, he will be saved” (Matt. 24:13). Paul and Barnabas urged new believers in Pisidian Antioch “to continue in the grace of God” (Acts 13:43) and encouraged “them to continue in the faith” (14:22). In his letter to the church at Rome, Paul declared that God will give eternal life “to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality” (Rom. 2:7; cf. 11:22). He promised the Colossians that Christ would present them before God the Father “blameless and beyond reproach—if indeed [they] continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that [they] have heard” (Col. 1:22–23). He admonished Timothy: “Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you” (1 Tim. 4:16). The writer of Hebrews notes, “We have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end” (Heb. 3:14; cf. 8:9; 10:38–39; cf. James 1:22–25). In each of His letters to the seven churches in Asia, the Lord described believers as overcomers (Rev. 2:7, 11, 17, 26; 3:5, 12, 21).

Perseverance in the faith is the duty of every true believer, and yet not the power of their security. It is, however, the unmistakable and inevitable evidence of divine power operating in the soul (Col. 1:29).

Believers will persevere because God’s power keeps their salvation secure. Jesus repeatedly emphasized that truth. To the multitudes at Capernaum, He declared emphatically that “all that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day” (John 6:37, 39). Later, in Jerusalem, He declared, “I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand” (John 10:28–29; cf. 17:2, 12, 24; 18:9). Earlier in Philippians, Paul wrote that he was “confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus” (1:6). Peter gave believers a similar assurance, saying that they “are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” (1 Peter 1:5).

From beginning to end, the entire divine work of salvation is under God’s control. In a well-loved passage Paul wrote, We know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (Rom. 8:28–30)To the Ephesians he wrote, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them” (Eph. 2:8–10).

So the call for believers to work out their salvation is found all through the New Testament. That is only fitting and proper, since it is a call for the necessary commitment on the believer’s part that is a prerequisite for the joys, blessings, and usefulness of sanctification.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 02:01 PM

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Well allow me throw in light so that we can have a fresh perspective.

I would like to rebut John MacArthur in his opening argument.

If Christ has indeed removed our sins, why should we say If we have no sins, we are deceiving ourselves? Is this verse for the believers? Or would it make sense that verse was actually for unbelievers?

Has Christ removed our sins or has He not? If Christ has, why is there still sin? doh.gif Do you see that fallacy of this argument?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 28 2023, 02:02 PM
desmond2020
post Feb 28 2023, 02:05 PM

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dude he is quoting from bible

1 John 1:8-9
English Standard Version
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

you gotta be kidding me. you got problem with bible verse? damn this doesn't go well
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 02:13 PM

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With regards to Philippians 3:12-14 (NIV) - 12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

You mean Paul was not saved when he made that statement? You mean he was trying to achieve Salvation because he said Not that I've obtained all this.

What was "not that I've obtained all this" refers to?

Brother Desmond you can read the entire Philippians 3, the answer is there.

I could pull it out for you but I suspect you're just going to ridicule me as usual.


TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 02:18 PM

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I know he was quoting from 1 John 1:8-9.

But in relating to working out Salvation with fear and trembling he said this;

work out your salvation with fear and trembling; (2:12e)The fifth motive for believers’ working out their sanctification is understanding the consequences of sin.

The 5th motive ?

If you have been saved, you have been cleared of sin. That is my argument. MacArthur pulls out a fallacy argument, that's my point.

Working out your Salvation, as I said, the context is in the next verse (13)
desmond2020
post Feb 28 2023, 02:19 PM

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dude, i just quote as what it wrote in bible, what you believe it means got nothing to do with me.

ketchup?
desmond2020
post Feb 28 2023, 02:22 PM

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he said sanctification, you said salvation

is this two same thing? dude

just relax and think it through

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 28 2023, 02:22 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 02:23 PM

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Alright ketchup.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 03:25 PM

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Anyway

The surety of the believer's Salvation in

post#215 is quite important.

LINK


This will determine all other things that follows, so get you need to be established in this foundation right. flex.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 2 2023, 09:05 AM

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What does working out your Salvation with fear and trembling means?

Philippians 2:12-13 (NIV) - 12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

The verse Work out your Salvation is a popular one but it is seldom quoted together of verse 13. You know why? So that it gives the impression you need to work out your Salvation less you lose it. This is of course erroneous.

I want to start off by saying, note that working out Salvation = God is doing for you. It does not start with you.

God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Doesn't say work for salvation, it says work out for it is God who works in. Work out what God has worked in. You cannot work out something you are not given<===THIS. Many have missed the point here.

So rest assure, it is not a verse telling that you need to work at it less you lose your Salvation. You have already been given Salvation, Friend, so work with what you are given to hone it, to perfect it. We have a lot of things to work out friend, taming your tongue for example. Loving your neighbours? We each have a varying degree to how much we love right? So you're beginning to get the idea of what this verse is all about?

Salvation's encompasses many things, It's not just on eternal life, don't forget. Salvation can also mean to rescue, to save, to heal, to deliver. But remember the verse doesn't say "work for", it's work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Fear and trembling is Hebrewism. It's an expression of something good that you are in awe of.

With that being said, Fear and Trembling means working out your salvation with a sense of an "awesomeness" if not a Good God! And what exactly is God working in you? Both to will, means God gives you the willingness. You may say "I'm not willing to do that". But you know, God can work in you the willingness? And this word, "God works in you" is present active participle., IE present continuous-active God is always working in you, you just have to be aware of it. He is working.

You know how good God is? He gives you the desire, he gives you the performance, and when you do it, God rewards you the grace of the very thing he first gave you. Isn't this amazing? And if are beginning to understand this, you can for example, ask God to give you the desire to look away from pornography. Whatever it is. It's not just pertaining to sin but also to do whatever that is required of God.

You can tell God, "God, I need the willingness," and see God working in you that willingness. This is also the key to holiness.

God Bless.

TSunknown warrior
post Mar 2 2023, 01:08 PM

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Not that I've already arrived...



Philippians 3:12-14 (NIV) - 12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.


This verse can apply to indicate (for believers) that none of us are perfect and may fail here and there. It's such an encouragement that we are told to forget the past and to move on. However does it mean that we have not arrive at inheriting Salvation?

Surely not. Because prior to this chapter, Apostle Paul stated if we have any encouragement in being united in Christ, IE you are already saved. And at the end of chapter 3, the word of God tells us our Lord Jesus Christ "WILL" transform our body into like His Glorious body, another indication you are saved. Nothing is said in chapter 2 or 3 inheriting Salvation is a progress, IE you have yet to obtain it.

Then what was Paul talking about then?

Well the clue can be found in verse 10 & 11 of same chapter.

10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

To be like Christ Jesus is always a journey. To know Christ takes time, takes effort. Paul was saying he wants to know everything there is about Christ and has yet to reach the full revelation, full knowledge of Christ. This is the context.
Verse 11 is a pilgrimage language talking about, when one has reached the end of his life, thereby attaining to resurrection from the dead.

What about "the prize" mention in verse 14 then?

Philippians 3:14 (KJV) - I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

KJV is more accurate. The prize here refers to reward for finishing whatever God calls you for. It's the prize for the calling of God. It's not the prize for Salvation.

There you have it. I pray by now you are convinced that God wants you to know your Salvation is secured by Christ Himself.

Anytime, anyone that tries to contradict this, understand that it's not of God but of the enemy. God wants faith and strong affirmation for his people, the devil only wants to cast doubt so that they remain in defeat.

Press on believers, press on no matter what, don't give up!

God Bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 2 2023, 01:09 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 3 2023, 12:35 PM

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God wants you to be fully assured of Salvation and does not want you to have a guilty conscience

Hebrews 10:22 (NIV) - let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.


The book of Hebrews is one of my favourites, in there are many gems of revelation that God wants us to embrace. Hebrews 10:22 is one of them. It tells us to be fully assured in being near to God. If that does not indicate one already having Salvation, I don't know what it.

You can think this through, you cannot come near to God fully assured if you are not saved. Keyword is on fully assured. It doesn't get any simpler than that. Time and time again, it's always our believing or faith that attracts God like nothing else does.

Having our heart sprinkled to cleanse us from guilty conscience means exactly what it is. As believers of God we are to have no consciousness of sin, ie guilty conscience.

Pure water there refers to being washed by word of God.

With all that being said, any teaching that teaches believers must always be conscious of sin or that we are not suppose to be fully assured of Salvation goes against the word of God.

My advice ignore such teachings. They can write long winded arguments but at the end of the day if it cast doubt into equation of Salvation or faith, the root is usually of the devil.

Hope this verse in Hebrews 10:22 helps you.

God Bless.

TSunknown warrior
post Mar 3 2023, 01:40 PM

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Grace is the answer to Sin, not the Law

Romans 6:14 (NKJV) - For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

The power to overcome sin IE not having dominion over you = Grace.

What is Grace? Grace = unearned, unmerited favor of God. It is God providing freely his favor to you without needing you to earn that right.

I can testify this to be true because I practice this verse at heart. How does this work?

Well I put my trust in God's grace. If God say Sin shall not have dominion under grace then in my mental assent, I accept that to be true. I don't fight against it, neither try to reason against it.
This is why mental assent is so important, don't downplay it.

I pray to God trusting He will do it. I ask God to remove every wrongful desire out of my heart including pornography. I pray everyday, day and night.

Meanwhile on everyday journey I may fall here and there but I know, Christ has already redeemed all my sin so I confess that in prayer. I don't wallow sorrowful in sin. I confess by faith, having full confidence, the blood of Christ is more powerful and avails in redeeming and has redeem that sin that just happened. Doesn't matter how many times. The blood of Jesus avails for all time.

If there is doubt or the feeling or uncertainty then fight to enter into God's rest. Being restful in God is so very important. I even confess that I'm the righteousness of God by faith (2 Corinthians 5:21 ), this righteousness is a gift from God that doesn't come from the Law (IE my obedience). It's crazy to even confess that after you sin but it's biblical. Why? It's to affirm Grace being provided to me.

Then one day, it happen. The desire just left, just like that. I no longer have that lustful desire that I used to have. I attribute this to the work of God's Holy Spirit and I say that with care. This is to God's Glory because what happened has nothing to do with me, not even my obedience.

In case if you are wondering where do I base this theology from?

Hebrews 9:24-26 (NIV)

QUOTE
24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
What these verse are saying is this:

Christ represent us in Heaven before God. He is our advocate, our high priest before God once and for all. Some of us may think that each we sin, Christ will magically appear on cross to suffer for us every single time. No.
Verse 26 is very clear. Christ does not suffer each time we sin. How come? Because His finish work is a once and for all and avails for all time. This is why when Christ say "It is finish", it is. Verse 28 confirms this. If Christ has taken sin away then it is taken away. And because Christ is not going to suffer every single time believer sin, this basically means the blood of Christ avails for every single sin. To say that the blood of Christ only wash for the first time and later on, it depends on whether you are obedient enough or repentant enough to merit Salvation is an erroneous theology and not biblical.

I wonder those who shout for obedience and repentance, hows is your spiritual life in your fight against sin? If you are still fighting against pornography, problem with lust, you can't keep your eyes off women in skimpy clothing, you may want to consider IF your theology if it's working for you. You can shout all you want. Accuse me all you want. At the end of the day when you worship God, is it truly free worship or one laid with guilt?

Whom the Son sets free is free indeed.

I share this devotion with the hope that you will turn to God's Grace as the answer.

God Bless.

desmond2020
post Mar 3 2023, 01:50 PM

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Oh hebrews 10:22.

Hebrews chapter 10 is very interesting in a way.

Hebrews 10:22 sounds good to most ears, but many won't like what is after this. Let see

22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.
24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge his people."
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings,
33 sometimes being publicly exposed to reproach and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated.
34 For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one.
35 Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.
37 For, "Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay;
38 but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him."
39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.


Note that ESV rendered it as evil conscience in verse 22? subtle different I must say. That is why I had been advising someone don't take a word out english translation and make a theology out of it

Now, if you notice verse 26 is rather controversial, most charismatic church i know will skip this. I hereby attached a neutral exploration of its meaning after this. You can read and form your own opinion.

What does Hebrews 10:26 mean?
This verse is controversial and subject to varied interpretation. The language used in this passage can be taken in more than one way. However, the overall context of the passage, the book of Hebrews, and the entire New Testament, still stands. As difficult as these verses might be to pin down, they should not be interpreted in a manner inconsistent with the rest of Scripture. As a passage dealing with apostasy, this warning either applies to saved Christians who suffer punishment for their disobedience, or those who were never truly saved in the first place, and who experience particular wrath for so blatantly rejecting Christ.

The Greek phrasing here is sometimes interpreted as to "go on sinning," or as "willfully sinning." There is a subtle difference between these, and how one interprets the rest of the passage greatly influences how these words are understood. The wider context of this passage, however, seems to favor the second view.

In the case of those who "go on sinning," it implies those who come to some level of knowledge of the gospel, but ultimately reject it in favor of their sin. Such persons would be those never legitimately saved in the first place. The following warning, then, refers to how much more severe their judgment would be. Those with greater knowledge have greater responsibility, particularly when it comes to spiritual matters (John 9:41).

If this reference is understood as those who are "willfully sinning," it would seem to suggest those who have legitimately accepted Christ, but who purposefully fail to fully submit to His will. It's true that the Bible sets forth a certain expectation for those who are saved; namely, they are generally expected to live as if they believe. However, this very letter of Hebrews pointed out the dangers of falling into faithlessness and disbelief (Hebrews 3:12–19; Hebrews 6:1–8). That prior warning was given very explicitly to saved believers, and included similar language to what follows.

Earlier in this chapter, the writer of Hebrews pointed out that the sacrifice of Christ was a single, once for all event (Hebrews 10:12). For this reason, there are no longer additional sacrifices being made, in heaven, for the forgiveness of sins (Hebrews 10:18). When sin is truly forgiven, there is no longer a sacrifice to remove it. The other side of that truth, however, is revealed here. Those who reject Christ reject the one and only sacrifice which can save them. There is not, and will never be, any other means to remove sin.
desmond2020
post Mar 3 2023, 02:56 PM

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Let have another view from other preacher

Question:

Would you please explain to me whether Hebrews 10:26 is speaking about a believer losing his or her salvation?

Response:

Hebrews 10:26 can only be understood in its near context (and in the context of the book of Hebrews). Paul's essential purpose in writing this book is to pull Jewish believers away from continuing in the temple ritual now that that ritual had been fulfilled in the incarnation, life, and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. For to continue with an elaborate system of rituals which spoke of the coming Savior and His future death on the cross was to say, in effect, that Jesus was not the Messiah and His death not valid. Continuation in the foreshadowing ritual after the real Christ had come and suffered in the flesh for real was tantamount to denying and disowning Him, and would eventually destroy the faith of those who persisted in the practice. Paul did not come to this realization at once (cf. the development of his understanding of true baptism as Spirit baptism: 1Cor.1:17). Indeed, his imprisonment, chronicled in the book of Acts, is a result of his persistence, for sentimental and "practical" reasons, in these rituals he loved. He had been warned not to go up to Jerusalem "through the Spirit" (Acts 21:4; cf. Acts 21:10-11), and then had agreed to sponsor the vows of some young men to show that "he lived in obedience to the [Mosaic] law" (Acts 21:24), which he certainly did not (1Cor.9:20-21). This was a blind spot, and a compromise, and Paul had previously pointed this out in the case of others (cf. Gal.2:11-14). To be fair, Paul is the first one of whom we know (apostle or otherwise) to even come to understand this issue with clarity (let alone to successfully explain it). And given that the primary features of the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox faiths (not to mention to a very large degree many Protestant denominations) are still largely based upon emulating, adopting, copying or transforming the Jewish rituals (i.e., priests, incense censors, churches with paraphernalia resembling the temple, altars so that communion set in a sacrificial context, etc.), we can see that this was no small accomplishment. Whatever compromise Paul had been involved in is more than set straight by the book of Hebrews which explodes virtually every aspect of the argument for Jewish believers to continue in the traditional manner of worship. This overarching thesis of the book of Hebrews is at the center of the interpretation of Heb.10:26 (set here in a wider context):

(19) Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence in this entrance of ours into the [heavenly] holy of holies by the blood of Jesus, (20) an entryway through the [heavenly] veil [of separation] which is new and alive and which He has consecrated for us, that is [through the sacrifice] of His flesh (cf. Heb.10:10; 10:18), (21) and since we have [this] great high priest over the household of God, let us approach [the throne of grace (cf. Heb.4:16) to pray] with a truthful heart in complete faith, (22) our hearts sprinkled [clean] of [any] bad conscience and our bodies washed with pure water [of the Word (cf. Eph.5:26)]. (23) Let us hold on without turning [to the right or to the left] to the hope we have professed - for the One who has promised us [eternal life] is faithful. (24) And let us give careful attention to one another['s ministries] as motivation for [our own] love and good works, (25) not abandoning your mutual assembling (as some have made it their practice to do [and which makes this impossible]), but rather encouraging each other [to persevere in this work of the Lord], and doing so to an ever greater degree to the extent that you see the day [of the Lord] drawing [ever] closer. (26) For if we willfully continue in the life of sin after accepting and recognizing the truth [of the gospel], there remains no further sacrifice we can make for our sins, (27) but only a terrible expectation of judgment, and a burning fire, ready to devour those who oppose [His will]. (28) For anyone who set aside the law of Moses perished without mercy on the [testimony] of two or three witnesses. (29) How much greater punishment do you suppose will not justly come to someone who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, and who has considered His blood of the covenant to be unclean (the very blood by which you were sanctified), and who has violently insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:19-29

The last sentence here is the conclusion for this whole section. We see here what Paul means in the near context when he says above in the verse you ask about, verse 26, "if we willfully continue in the life of sin after accepting and recognizing the truth (of the gospel), there remains no further sacrifice we can make for our sins". In other words, by continuing in the Jewish temple ritual, these Jewish believers were committing sin, and serious sin at that. Because every time they participated in an animal sacrifice, they were saying, in effect, that Jesus died in vain. This really is "trampling" Him under foot; this really is regarding His blood, that is, His death on the cross, as "unclean", this really is "violently insulting" the Spirit who testifies to Him and to the validity of His work.

There were certainly reasons that the Jewish believers in Jerusalem were drawn to these things: tradition, nostalgia, the desire to avoid confrontation with (and persecution by) unbelievers who expected it of them. But Paul lets these backsliding believers know in no uncertain terms that to continue in these practices will be the death of their faith. All sin endangers faith, because all sin is lawlessness (1Jn.3:4). If we are walking in the light (1Jn.1:7), we can confess our failings and be confident of forgiveness (1Jn.1:9). But if we are not walking in the light, that is, if we are involved in a pattern of rebellion, a pattern of sinful conduct we know to be sinful, if we willfully and arrogantly disobey God long and hard enough, then we have no fellowship with God (1Jn.1:6), and our hearts eventually become hardened to Him, and our faith decays and eventually dies - and without faith there is no salvation (cf. Matt.10:33; Lk.14:34-35; Jn.15:5-6; Rom.11:17-23; 1Cor.6:9-11; 10:6-12; 15:2; 2Cor.13:5; Gal.5:19-21; Eph.5:3-7; Col.1:21-23; 1Tim.6:9; 6:20-21; 2Tim.2:12; Heb.2:1-3; 3:6-19; 10:35-39; 2Jn.1:8-9). So while the specific application of Hebrews 10:26 "if we willfully continue in the life of sin" is to this particular pattern of sinning, any pattern of choosing a life of sin against God will lead eventually and inevitably to the same place:

(12) Make sure, brothers, that none of you develop an evil heart of unbelief (i.e., lack of faith) by turning away (lit. "apostatizing") from the living God. (13) Rather keep encouraging each other every day as long as we still call it "today" (i.e. still remain in this world), lest any of you be hardened [in heart] by the deception of sin. (14) For we all have a share in Christ, as long as we hang on to that original confidence [of our faith] firmly to the end, (15) as it says: "Today if you hear His voice, Don't harden your hearts as they did at the provocation [at Meribah]." (16) For who provoked Him, though they had heard? Did not all of them who came out of Egypt under Moses' leadership do so? (17) And with whom was He enraged for forty years? Wasn't it the very people who had sinned, then dropped dead in the desert? (18) And to whom did He swear that they would never enter into the [place of] rest [He had promised], but to those who had been disobedient to Him? (19) Now we see that they were unable to enter into this [place of rest] because of their unbelief (i.e., their loss of faith).
Hebrews 3:12-19

Every one is tempted by his own lust, being dragged away [by it] and enticed [by it]. Then, should lust conceive (i.e., should the person give in to it), it gives birth to sin. And sin, should it be fully carried out to the end (i.e., should the person give in to a life of sin), produces death (i.e., the death of faith).
James 1:14-15

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin (i.e., involved in sin) which is not unto death (i.e., is a deviation rather than a complete turning away), let him ask [forgiveness on his brother's behalf], and life will be given to him (i.e., forgiveness and deliverance), that is, in those cases where those sinning are not [sinning] unto death (i.e., engaged in a willful process of "deadly" faith destroying sinfulness).
1st John 5:16

Let us not put Christ to the test, as some of them (i.e., the Exodus generation) did and were killed by serpents. And let us not be complaining, as some of them complained, and were killed by the Destroyer. These things happened to them as an example to us and were written to warn us (i.e., to avoid similar apostasy) – we who live at the culmination of the ages (i.e., at the doorstep of the Tribulation). So let him who thinks he stands firm beware lest he fall (i.e., from faith; cf. Rom.11:22).
1st Corinthians 10:11-12

Don't you understand that if you give your allegiance to anyone to obey them as servants, then you truly are their servants when you obey them? [This is true] whether [you give yourselves] to sin, which results in death (i.e., of faith ), or whether [you give yourselves] to obedience [to Christ], which results in righteousness?
Romans 6:16

https://ichthys.com/mail-Hebrews%2010-26.htm
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 3 2023, 03:22 PM

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What is sinning wilfully referring to?

Hebrews 10:26 (NIV) - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

Before I start, let us deal with Hebrews 10:22 on the word evil conscience, yes it's a subtle difference whether guilty, bad or wicked but the context remain the same. In either translations, it's still referring to sin consciousness. Because prior to this verse, the passage talks about removal of our sins. Hence the context. It amuses me sometime why the constant need to contradict. smile.gif

Friends, we shouldn't allow any verse to be taken out of its context and causes doubt or even rob you of your security in Christ. On surface reading it may sound as if referring to

1. Apostasy
2. Those who are never saved
3. Those who are saved but deliberately sinning

Let's reason this out.

I submit to you that almost every sin we commit after being saved were committed willfully. <==This.

Think about. If that is the case then by reason of Hebrews 10:26 then nobody is going to heaven if we think that is what it says.

Well you may argue, nobody except those who repent and are obedient. Well in there lies a huge problem.

Just how many repentance or number of times we obey qualify? How do you know it's enough? You can say well I repented and I obeyed but then your next sin was also another deliberate one.

The criteria is that as long as it's a deliberate one, no sacrifice for sins is left. So how? None of those 3 references makes any sense not unless you read the entire chapter of Hebrews 10.

Apostle Paul was painstakingly arguing why the Law as opposed to the blood of Christ cannot save. <===This is the context of Hebrews 10:26. Apostle Paul stated very strongly the animal sacrifice cannot save the person as it could not remove any sin. (Read verse 1 -11)

We need to understand that the book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrews, or Jewish people (which included believers as well as non-believers). Hebrews 10:26, in particular, is addressing Jewish non-believers who had heard preaching on Jesus being their Messiah, but who were still going back to the temple to offer animal sacrifices.

Because Christ has already come, forgiveness of sins is now only made available via his blood, not animal sacrifices. That is why when you read the part " .......after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left" it then makes a lot of sense. the knowledge of truth here refers to Christ.

You must also remember the jewish people by large were still opposing Christ. They insist Moses Law was the way. Hence to reject Christ and go back to temple animal sacrifice = trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace.

And if you read verse 32 onwards, it makes even more sense then.


QUOTE
32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering. 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34 You suffered along with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. 35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded.

36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For,

“In just a little while,

he who is coming will come

and will not delay.”

38 And,

“But my righteous g one will live by faith.

And I take no pleasure

in the one who shrinks back.”

39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.


Verse 32 refers to Christians who were persecuted by Jewish Rabbi for their new found faith in Christ Jesus. In relevance there is a tug of war here, between Judaism and Christianity.

With all that being said, Hebrews 10:26 refers to rejecting Christ and going back to temple sacrifices. We need to let Bible interpret Bible.






TSunknown warrior
post Mar 3 2023, 03:33 PM

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Romans 14:23 (NIV) - But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

Normally we think the word sin = disobeying God, like watching pronography, stuff like that.

But if we understand Bible language, anything that does not come from faith is sin as well.

Food for thought.




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