.
You have only 1 "witness" Bible translation whereas I have 4 "witnesses" Bible translations to say that the apostle Paul was addressing the faithful saints in the Church of Ephesus, not to ALL faithfuls or Christian believers.

It's 27 vs 5 = about 5 vs 1 wrt Bible translations saying ...
.... "faithful or the faithful" vs "to the faithful", at, .......

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/1-1.htm

So, chances of you being wrong is 5X higher than me being wrong wrt our comments/opinions on EPHESIANS.1 .
.

I will just leave this here for the non believers that may be reading this thread for fun or curiosity (and saw the insane chaos that has been going on for pages).

2 main differences between how salvation is approached:

Type 1: Once you accepted Christ genuinely, youre saved. Done deal. Dont even need to know a single verse. (joking) Now you may continue your cheongster, whoring, cheating on your wife with yee lai, sam lai, going to genting, bribing, driving/parking your alfart like a dirtbag, etc cinapek behavior. Some call this Hyper grace.

Type 2:You need to fulfill a list of stuff to get your salvation + accepting Christ. Mostly RC/orthodox stuff. And you need to renew your salvation passport by continuously doing it.


-----> Type 3: This is the teaching put forth by Allen Parr, and I myself also in this category (before I saw this). Its similar to Type 1. But if youre genuine about being Christian. You will automatically be seeking the way, the truth and life. You may be guided by the holy spirit, or if youre the academics type, just do some research and study, use chatgpt, watch apologist videos (not those silly click bait type), watch sermon by other pastor (timothy keller, cliff knecthle). Now, go out and do some good, but at the same time, knowing that whatever good you do, its not to contribute to your salvation.

Christianity can be as deep and complex as you need it to be or as simple as accepting christ and slowly adding more to your christian life (knowing that youre already saved, be at peace). And its bigger than what your own church tells you either (not a criticism, a church is still a complex organization with their own scandal and issues and can only provide 20minutes of knowledge per week). You're given freewill to discern what is good, what's critical, what's optional.

Like I said, you need a pastor and you need to go to church because you cant even read and interpret the simplest bible verse..


KJV
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Original language of Ephesians 1:1
Παῦλος ἀπόστολος Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ διὰ θελήματος θεοῦ τοῖς ἁγίοις τοῖς οὖσιν ἐν Ἐφέσῳ [B]καὶ [/B]πιστοῖς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ

Kai means????
conjunction that typically means "and" or "also." It is used to connect words, phrases, or clauses, similar to its English equivalents.

you use whatever translation , the original bible says so..

see how delusional you are?

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 5 2024, 10:58 PM

the bible says tat the truth shall set u free! & i'm free indeed!

free from the shackles of kristianiti, after 4 decades of indoctrination & superstition.

i no longer fear tat there's an angel watching my every step, & recording down every one of my thoughts & deeds, just to keep count.

i also no longer fear the existence of an after life, whr i'll be cast into eternal damnation

gosh, wat a terrible way to go through life!

i believe that whenever i pray, the soft gentle voice is not of the holy spirit, but my inner voice talking to myself.

i believe tat miracles are too subjective & are just random events.

i believe tat we r a product of the slow process of evolution, & tat this life is indeed a precious gift, & the one & only, tat we'll ever have.

thrfore, i'll not squander my remaining years, chasing after a non-existent eternal after life.

my mind is finally set free from the prison called kristianiti.



I thank these great men, for expediting the process :

https://brucegerencser.net/

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/15834

https://isthatinthebible.wordpress.com/2015...ding-to-hermes/


You know, kristians can't just keep saying, "because the bible says so", ad infinitum. Circular reasoning simply won't do.

If you're trolling, at least quote Richard Dawkins or christopher hitchen or something. Those are the de facto atheist that that apologist always debates with. Never heard about those guys in your link.

If you're serious as an ex Christian for 40 years... I feel sorry for you. Tons of reliable information out there but you choose to believe in shitty Christian that doesn't have better explanation for you. Perhaps it was the dark age when tools like youtube, chatgpt etc are not available...

i would suggest you DM me, as this has become more of a personal conversation than a public one.. unless there are people who are interested.. else Its a bad testimony.. and we should not be a part of it..

.
Quoting you; .... "You should tear away Ephesians cos it’s not for you
Same for Philippians cos it’s not for you, for church of Philippi
Throw away Romans and Corinthians too cos not for you, for church of Corinth
See how funny and ridiculous you sound? "
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Fyi, .......

PHILIPPIANS.1: 1-3 (KJV) = 1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, ...
.

ROMANS.1:1 & 6-7 (KJV) = 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, ... &
....

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
.

1CORINTHIANS.1:1-3 (KJV) = 1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

.
GALATIANS.1:1-3 (KJV) = 1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

= it's quite evident that ALL (.?) of Paul's epistles/letters in the Bible were personal and addressed to specific Churches or persons which or who he had ministered to previously in his travelling evangelism, ie not addressed to other Christian believers or to faithful believers in a future time or to you and me.
....... Also, it's quite evident that KJV wrongly translated EPHESIANS.1:1.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 6 2024, 01:59 AM

Thanks for admitting what i said...
Evidently your faith (on James, the above etc) is clear..
This no longer is a public discussion but a private one
And as I suggested.. feel free to move to PM than here.. unless you have different malicious intentions

correct translation should be

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus and faithful in Christ Jesus:

if you did read same verse translated to other language than English, this is evident

meaning sending to saints who is at Ephesus and who is also faithful in christ jesus

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Aug 6 2024, 08:25 AM

That's by default so..
Ephesians 2:19 is clear what saved christians are.
"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;"

but its okay ...
by now its evident what we are dealing with based on the consistent behavior and trend..

Good learnings and exposure of what is in the world today and their personal perspectives.. ..
but let's not allow the devil to takeover this thread , and rightly as other fellow Christians hinted, to keep this more beneficial for the public..

its to discuss and debate on bible verses on a public level than to tackle personal faith issues..

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 6 2024, 11:12 AM

Just a note to non believers and newbies. When the new testament refers to saints, particularly the very first generation of believers, it's just as simple as that, believers, not necessarily ceo and senior managers of churches. Although they are indeed special with just a simple reason that they are putting their lives at risk at that time.

Anyone who says that content written by Paul are not relevant to normal Christian are totally insane. Paul contributed like half of the NT. You don't need to be a priest or hold some management post in your church. You decide for yourself if it's word is useful to you. Sola scriptura. Peace out.

.
I don't think it is necessary to "hide" our Bible discussion here wrt our comments/opinions on the Bible. As for our personal conversations, eg "shake the dust off your feet" at me, it's "What is good for the goose is good for the gander" and "Getting a taste of his own medicine" or the law of ni4ni.

Feel free to post here your comments/opinions on the Bible for the public or readers to judge for themselves, unless you have different malicious intentions or ulterior motives.
.

I'm very sure my replies have been nothing but direct and from the Bible.. but unfortunately, to my surprise it has taken too long too far for simple comprehension of the Bible and I see why.. There's nothing to hide and i have been consistent.

I have no malicious intents but to be reminded we have a testimony to live.

Matthew 18:15-17," Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."

And I remind you to be mindful as well..

and more importantly, to not abuse this platform and be a stumbling block to those who wants to learn, not see vain babblings

I've PM you out of good gesture to explain.. i would advise you to take it from there..

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 6 2024, 11:22 AM

Type 2 is not as simple as that. For without Him we can do nothing. For that we need to continually knock and ask (aka prayer).

I am the vine: you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing. If any one abide not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and cast him into the fire, and he burneth. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask whatever you will, and it shall be done unto you. In this is my Father glorified; that you bring forth very much fruit, and become my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; as I also have kept my Father's commandments, and do abide in his love. (Jn 15:5-10)

.
Quoting you; ... 2 Timothy 3:16
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

.
2TIMOTHY.2:15 (NKJV) = 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

EPHESIANS.6: = 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, ...

= the truth about the Epistle/Letter to the Ephesians is that the apostle Paul was personally addressing to the faithful saints in the Church of Ephesus, (as with his other letters, eg to the Romans, Philippians, Corinthians, etc) not to other Churches or other Christian believers then or now.
....... Of course, some of the things Paul wrote to the Ephesians can be
profitable to other Christian believers for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
.

At MATTHEW.4:1-11, the Lord/God Jesus Christ when tested by Satan, had demonstrated to us by example, how the Scripture/Bible should not be misinterpreted and quoted out-of-context. Otherwise, the Scripture/Bible could have it's truth changed into false teachings/doctrines of demons, etc, that can be used by Satan to misguide and deceive Christians then and now, esp new Gentile Christian adults, until they may even lose their salvation by eventually losing faith in Christ, eg the false Hypergrace, OSAS, Word of Faith movement, Pentecostalism, etc.
....... A good example here is 'happy4ever', a Pentecostal Christian from DUMC, who got misguided and deceived into committing sexual immorality = he has been bedridden since before MCO. In his case, the biblical example of 1CORINTHIANS.5:1-5 applies.
....... Fyi, Ps. Raymond Koh was also from DUMC. He was accused by the authorities of proselytizing to Muslims with his charity NGO.

When Scripture is properly interpreted and quoted in-context, it is useful and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 6 2024, 12:00 PM

As I have said, please continue the discussion at Private Message.
This no longer a biblical discussion but has became a more fundamental issue of comprehension and faith.

And if you are as responsive here, as you should be at the PM; in defending your understanding, there should be nothing you are afraid of.. unless only for other unknown malice intentions

We can continue on how lost you are there. TQ

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 6 2024, 12:42 PM

To unbelievers and newbies... If someone make bold claims that a believer is bedridden and has critical illnesses due to wrong doings against god. The first answer is always, no one know for certain.
The chances of believer or non believers getting some critical illness is about the same (all things equal, genetics, age, level of health care,). Else hospital will have a booth for you to sign up on the spot.
Don't be disheartened if you heard overly positive things or how everything can be cured to every member. If you're chosen for some miracle... Great. If not, god is still there never missing a beat.

.
Are you saying the Word of God/Jesus or Bible/Scripture below which are applicable, are wrong wrt how God will judge/curse Christians, then and now, who committed sexual immorality, eg 'happy4ever' the Pentecostal Christian who committed sexual immorality.? .......

ACTS.15:28-29 (NKJV) = 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.


1JOHN.5:16-17 (NKJV) = 16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.
.

Mate, why avoid the Bible ?
Tackle one thing at a time.. lets start with your faith and comprehension.
Please reply at PM
TQ

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 6 2024, 01:47 PM