Meanwhile another batch just finished red flag 2021:





This post has been edited by Mai189: May 29 2021, 07:26 PM

Best 2021 Red Flag Nellis vid so far:

Deleted....
MY/SG/ID always in peace.

This post has been edited by Lampuajaib: May 29 2021, 07:54 PM

Read more: https://jakartaglobe.id/news/lockheed-marti...latest-f16-jets

Buy Rafale for the kickback (the french are very famous for these)
Use the money & drum up the Rafale as national pride ala modi to try for the 3rd time lucky bid for the presidency?

So it less to do with strengthening of the military
Just a politikus doing politikus things.

If Probowo want to do what best for the nation
Then just get more F16.

But buying sensible F16 won't win any votes though.

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: May 29 2021, 10:18 PM

Why can't MY & ID accepted it When they been overspend on weapon then everyone else even ID all along?

One thing people got to remember is that SG has exhausted all source of growth, they aren't likely to grow higher than 3% annually.

Post 2030, they either double it to 6% of GDP to spend as much as ID then double it up again post 2040 to keep up with ID while all ID has to do is maintain it at 1% of GDP. But if they don't increase their military spending they would spend only as much as MY post 2040. L

Why do you think Israel are trying hard to have a normalized relationship with their neighbors nowdays?

Thats a good observation. For a small air force consisting of a mix of 3rd and 4th gen russian and uk and us combat jets, the indo should stick with the f16vs above and not add to the logistical train.

The f16vs are regarded as 4.5 gen aircrafts together with the latest f18 SH variants, F15sg, f15sa, f15qa and f15ex. F22s and f35s are 5th gen aircrafts.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 29 2021, 11:03 PM

Buying new F16 seem like quite a waste of money though as it's only just marginally least expensive then the F35. So Wonder if the F16 is just an interim measure and can be exchange with F35 in 10 years time.

USAF already flown the 6th gen prototypes, so by 2030. They would start entering production. Which would allowed the F35 to be sold to non partners country?

Sg is expected to grow > 4% to 6% this year. In spite of being developed or high income, theyve been growing at 3% to 5%, thats quite a feat over the past years. As ive shared, it is all relative as a more developed or smaller country can afford to spend more on some sectors including defence because they do not need to spend more in some other sectors e.g. infrastructure. For e.g. Sg has been spending tens of billions yearly in rail networks but these projects will soon end so theyll end up with more savings in future. Another point to note is Sgs a creditor nation - they make surpluses and do not borrow to spend. Sgs 2 huge global investment vehicles Temasek and GIC for e.g. (worth about USD $800 billion to USD $900 billion in total excluding Sgs foreign reserves of now nearly USD $400 billion) make tens of billions in revenue each year and these funds continue to grow. Sg can spend a lot. There is a limit certainly but if they are pressed, they can sustain a much much higher level of spending than currently. And not borrow at all.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 30 2021, 05:27 AM

Lol 4-6% this year only. Not 4-6% annually. Any country which able to get out of the pandemic would grow 200% more than usual due to the slowdowns before.


Remember state wealth is not equal citizens wealth.

Also the state doesn't pay for the rail, the citizens does. as rail lines are paid through state land sales whose monopoly on supplies inflated the price of property there. They don't pay for healthcare nor roads as well.

SG core competency is
1) low taxes rates which allowed them to be the paper HQ of MNC operating in ASEAN, infact 70% of their GDP is due to those MNC, the rest are filled by mostly GLC which monopolize almost all domestic industry.

2) very competent gov interference a result of blurring the lines between what is PAP and the civil service.


And yet even at the height of a pandemic where people priorities security over anything else, PAP only win 60% of popular votes. If this trend continue and their citizens demanded more and more social services they can't afford to keep the taxes rates low for those MNC to still be there or if they demanded more & more democracy then they lose the effective gov interference.

The end of one party state is quite devastating for SG as they are very specialized on the taxes heaven economy. So unlike TW/SK even ID the end of one party state won't be of any benefits to them. So unless PAP prepared SG for a post PAP SG. It would take quite a miracle for SG to not follow the trejectory of HK. Afterall few decades back HK GDP was 200% of SG/MY.

That is why i said they have been growing decently at 3% to 4% for a developed country.

Their gdp per cap is one of the highest in the world. Their citizens can afford it.

Sg doesnt have a one party state. But one party has been dominant not unlike BN. And thats because her citizens elected them in. 60% approval for a first by the post electoral system is very high! BN lost the popular vote twice in a row!.

Some of their oppies want to spend even more on defence, so you better wish the fiscally conservative PAP stays in power.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 30 2021, 12:14 AM

The lowest ratio in region

https://www.statista.com/statistics/810421/...-gdp-indonesia/

It is also not quite right to say that a country can simply raise spending by X% of gdp like Y and Z country; all else remaining the same or cateris paribus.

Where is the money going to come from if it does not make surpluses some where in its accounts? Esp. if the same country already relies heavily on loans and foreign credit lines - this shows that you dont have the requisite money or funding in the 1st place!

Very foolish to think that more loans is the answer. You need to service the loans going forward for many years as a proportion of your yearly budget. You are also beholden to foreign powers which have interests and/or own the foreign banks! Case in point is Egypt - it is now leashed to foreign banks or powers.

Msia is doing the right thing by not resorting to foreign loans for military purchases. The budget in particular has been in deficit for years.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 30 2021, 07:18 AM

The idea of Indonesia banking its fighter force on US warplanes is simply ludicrous. I don't think Indonesia has any more appetite for a high degree of dependence on US defense equipment given the history of US arms embargo on the country. In the early 2000s, US arms embargo effectively grounded the Indonesian Air Force's F-16s, effectively eliminating its primary (really, entire) fighter fleet, a condition which was only mitigated with the arrival of the Russian Sukhois.

Note that prior to this, Indonesia had actually planned to build a fighter force composed entirely of F-16s, with 80 examples planned. But the embargo proved that the US is an unreliable supplier. And once bitten twice shy, it now seeks to avoid dependence on one supplier. Neither the public nor the political establishment would accept a return to such a time since it had been taught the harsh lesson that when you depend on the armaments of one country, you'll have to obey its policies and dictates, and no country that has to obey another can claim to be truly sovereign.

Of course, I don't doubt that this policy is partly maintained by officials seeking to secure kickbacks from procurements, it is definitely a motivation. Indonesia is not like Singapore, its officials cannot just pay themselves millions over the table. The public would lynch them if they ever attempt to give themselves such a pay raise, so they have to skim them under the table. Malaysia - and pretty much the rest of Southeast Asia, really - is also in the same straits.

Of course, this isn't good since it lets officials get used to breaking the law. What I'd like to see happen is for countries like Indonesia and Malaysia to be more like the US where officials don't receive kickbacks or bribes and instead secure golden parachutes and run the revolving door of government and business. Instead of taking cash for making government decisions, they should instead take speaking and consultation fees. If these countries can reform their political culture in that direction, it will go a long way towards cleaning up their corruption reputation and perhaps approach the US ranking in the Corruptions Perceptions Index, the US being one the cleanest countries globally according to the index.

Of course, it still wouldn't be Singapore, but that's unrealistic for large and populous countries to aim for in the first place. Instead, countries like the US or Japan provides a better model for managing political corruption and diminishing its perceived impact. Such reforms would also professionalize arms procurement, giving the public greater confidence in the quality of defense spending.

Still clinging to fantasies of "independence"

And the french and the larger EU do not impose embargoes right? That leaves the Russian and their oily merchants and their questionable claims and goods which do not link up with the rest of your western oriented equipment.

Read more: https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Internatio...nese-incursions

This post has been edited by azriel: May 30 2021, 07:49 AM

SG kiasuness is unlimited...lol.
They will reject the rule of gravity, what is going up must going down. Nothing is stay on top forever. That is not surprising, even US is not ready if overtaken by PRC.

Like I said SG will be Taiwan sooner or later.

I understand Indonesia stand in acquiring military hardwares from various sources, ID/India/China have similar pattern. They all are too big to rely on one source. Self reliance at least for the major equipments is the best option. Naturally, they all big nations with abundant sources and domestic market. Why give their domestic market for others?
Even if they can build inferior equipment will be not a problem. They already have natural detterent efect.

This post has been edited by Lampuajaib: May 30 2021, 08:17 AM

According to report this year Indonesia will get a defense budget of USD 12 billion and in 2022 to receive USD 21 billion.