The Indonesian Navy plan to have 4 units LHD but imho this will be post 2030 onwards. Credit to Kompas.



https://interaktif.kompas.id/baca/armada-tni-al/

This post has been edited by azriel: May 27 2021, 12:52 PM

When I said 'obligated' it had less to do with FPDA but more to do with SG being a quazi ' protectorate ' of US. 85% of US investment in ASEAN goes through SG. So it's in their best interest to do what the American told them to do.

ID is not like MY at all despite speaking the same language. They have a big country with big population & destined to be a minor world power in 30 years time. So they pretty much act like chinese during the age of Deng.

ID like china military acquisition and international postering are not design for war. It's design for the domestic audiences not dissimilar to what Mahathir did to SG before.


Assembling weapons is one thing, building weapon from ground up is another. MY can assemble Honda car but designing our own car like P1 was an utter failure. To be fair we unlike JP,Ch & US post Mahathir hasn't spend money & protectionism to make local industry a success at all. Just see how much money they spend for the F35 or Shinkansen.

Assembling helicopter is not difficult, Airbus are more than happy to allowed local production. CH/JP/SK/ID had all done those. Personally i do think we would do so as well but instead of the puma it would be the H160M. Which unfortunately the french hasn't completed yet. CTRM had already expand their factory 200% bigger than before.

Assembling jet fighter too is not difficult, LM, saab, Kai even the chinese are more then happy to license local production. But we need to purchase hundred of it to make it worthwhile on top of money on R&D just to get a shittier less capable version then what already in the market.

For SK/India/china/turkey & even ID, due to their geopolitics may make it a worthwhile efforts. Some a ia conflict while other had superpowers ambitious. A good example of it is Gripen. By merit an excellent fighters. But sweeden doesn't have the allies/economic & military power to make it a worthwhile purchase for everyone else.

All of MY weapon efforts & TOT is exactly just that. A songlap efforts. We are not in a conflict or have enough population to justify a dedicated weapon manufacturer. If we truly want a defense industry then pick something with a civilian application. Thing like Eurocopter/Renault truck/Damen ship/ ivenco are civilian stuff that can be militarized.

Infact it does seem it was the army & gov want to do except politaik just can't stop fucking it up.

.

Seem like they would start constructions by 2030.
RMN too plans to get another MRSS by that time frame.

Maybe we should tumpang build one with them. Rather then spending a lot of money just designing a single ship.

Lol wut protectorate? Sg has not joined the US on their more wilder endeavours. There is a reason why Sg has refused to be a treaty ally although they are allies for mutual benefits for all intents and purposes - they signed a separate military agreement.

As for indo, you should count their chickens or assets when they "actually" buy/build something. Otherwise, it is all not true or vapourware esp. given their financial constraints.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 27 2021, 03:12 PM

This is a good point. See how Euro countries support one another in defence. Sg and My have often negotiated on the basis of package of benefits as the 2 economies are linked.

In spite of cross border arguments by politicos, the most pragmatic thing to do by both countries is to work closer together in the future. People to people relationship and even between the 2 militaries are excellent. Many people forget the air defences of Sg and peninsula My are jointly coordinated with IADS at Butterworth. Personal politics aside Sg will not say no to the deployment of her GBADs in My if the need arises. And IADs have vectored RSAF planes against intruders to My airspace.

I suspect with the departure of Tun and his generation and one generation after that, relations will improve. LKY has already left and LHL will be stepping down.

2020 to 2030 - busy decade for RSN however ST has room for more:

RSNs build/induction list in no order of priority is 1) MRCV heavy frigates to replace the Victory class corvettes 2) Mid-life upgrade to Formidable class frigates 3) JSSM LHDs to replace Endurance class LPDs 4) Purpose built light frigates for maritime security 5) Induction/further purchase of Invincible class submarines 6) Build up of USVs and UUvs 7) Likely new minesweepers 8) Definitely new MPAs to replace the ageing Fokker 50s - P8s.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 27 2021, 03:50 PM

Interesting you mention 'wilder' endeavors.
Because they do join in in some minor endeavors.
Understandable why they don't join the war on terror is due to their two neighbors isn't it? They are more than happy to join the war on china though.

Like i said ID are just doing it for domestic audiences. The fact is they don't even have enough capabilities to hold on to their owned territories.

But then again, in 20-30 years they would be in the same position as the chinese is now and would be doing the exact same shit. So it's a good idea for them to start their own military industrial complex. Not to mention not every indonesian want to be indonesian so the risk of being embargo again is high.

Sg has not joined in any overt anti PRC alliances or groupings. They are involved in the fight against terrorists.

No comment on Indo. They are not the PRC in terms of competitiveness. It may take a longer time - see India. Meanwhile, the world moves along - not like they are sitting still. So, catching up is relative.

Bersama Lima will be a sight this year with the UKCBG

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 29 2021, 05:31 PM

Although SG could build MRSS for MY, the price will not beat ID. If MY looking for a gold plated MRSS then still will not bought from SG.

This post has been edited by Lampuajaib: May 27 2021, 05:18 PM

What ever SG said it will not against US interest and join China.
For ID, at least they will not claimed based on their Majapahit era as China did to claim SCS.

Currently their defense spending is as high as indonesia.

But In pre covid 2033 estimate, MY economy would be 2x of SG while ID would be 3x of MY. So by then MY & ID can afford the same toys as SH even with just 1% spending on GDP on defense. By 2040 MY GDP PPP per capita would be in parity with SK.

So unless we fucked things up and hired ourselves another dictator. Getting the same LPD as SG by 2035 is possible. We can probably afford for a joint procurement of weapon post 2040.

ID MRSS is a ferry.
It's not meant for war
Heck it doesn't even have centralized a/c.

Doubt it has any abilities to replenish heli & other ship.
If it can't do that then how to hunt for submarines & mines?

Obviously our army wanted something like damen's Karel doorman


This post has been edited by darth5zaft: May 27 2021, 07:51 PM

Read more: https://www.terma.com/news-events/news/late...sistance-ships/

Sgs budget has been consistently larger:

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-det...-for-2021_15567

Then you need 2 take into account of how Sg makes every cent worthwhile for a country known for its efficiency, low to zero corruption, low overheads, etc.

I do not have a crystal ball with me to know how Msia or Indo will be like in future. However, I do know that Msians and Sgreans are of the same stock. And if Msia progresses to rely on some form of merit-based (and not race) policies as a basis for societal progress, Sg and Msia will re-merge or at least there will be some form of economic union. The union of Msia and Sg will be akin to another South Korea, if not better.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 29 2021, 05:32 PM

Getting 5th place in crony capitalist index hardly make them efficient, low to zero corruption, low overhead, sugar ,spice and everything nice.

Read more: https://news.detik.com/berita/d-5584235/may...lutsista-kenapa

UK new frigate type 31 is based on Iver Huitfeldt which is based on Absalon class whose initial design as support ship with ro-ro deck.
MRSS offered by ID is 163m to meet RMN requirements.
If it is cheaper and meet all requirements then it is worth to be picked.

Karel Doorman? Really?
It is a 27.000 ton support ship, it is too big, bigger than huge for MY.

To be fair, we should check on GDP and annual budget.
Every nation has their own priorities. MY and ID still many things to develop especially on rural areas while SG is not. So, SG can put bigger percentage on defence sector.

What if MY already finished in developing the rural areas? it will be a different story'.

This post has been edited by Lampuajaib: May 27 2021, 09:19 PM

More like mini Karel doorman.
And most of it tonnage are from the oil it carries not really due to the amount of metal only.

Navantia had offered such a design.
https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/pacifi...rt-ship-design/

Going for indonesia is risky. It's basically what we been doing all along. Taking a ship RMN don't want and try to re engineer & redesign it to what RMN wants. RMN wants) a combo replenishment ship + LPD. Not just a LPD.


Guess the only reason gov hasn't approved it got to do with MMEA. From the way they describe their mothership. It seem they are talking about something like the absalon class. And as you have said. Absalon CAn kinda work as a MRSS.

Personally the reason they want a big MRSS is probably because they wanna get rid of bunga mas 5p but they still want to have a replenishment ship. And as MMEA stated running oil platforms & tanker as mobile base is extremely expensive.

Going danish is great for local industry too. They basically has no more shipyard and only exist as a consultant firms. So their TOT is a real TOT unlike Damen which would insist on doing the 'difficult' part in their shipyard and we only exist as an assemblers.


.Off cause there already exist a vessel that fullfil every one of RMN desire. It's called JS osumi. Going japanese is good since they can't really export weapon. So it's would be more of a co design & co engineering with all the construction being made here. Not to mention they more than happy to give us 1% rated loan. Which would allow us to finished the LCS while getting the MRSS at the same time.

And by next RM. We can just reuse the facilities that make MMEA absalon to build type 31. Just like how the rebooted LMS going to be a sigma.






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