Well PT PAL has proven themselves again and again. They built many 7,000 to 10,000 tons support ships to Asean countriez and even to TLDM.

Talk to Indonesia engineer on a subject and then you talk the same subject to a Malaysian engineer. See the difference .

PT PAL and ST Marine Engineering. The rest No.

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 18 2021, 01:50 PM

Well, I personally know a good Malaysia engineer who was at Bousted that was brought for LCS project
And now he is in Portsmouth with another major shipbuilding company and when I talk to him he just said "I give up"

This post has been edited by atreyuangel: Sep 18 2021, 01:54 PM

.



given a good design, Indonesia can build any ships.

but locally designed ships? the KCR60 is not something i consider as a good ship. The concept of that tank boat is idiosyncratic at best.

.



to be honest we got much more good engineers than Indonesia. just the politicking and all these get rich quick scheme of selling mediocre stuff at premium prices wasted their skills and knowledge.

he actually resign due to political issues

LCS is a good project he said to me, good enough for him to quit his job to pour his blood and sweat

tapi lepas tu

I have said before no point opposition to keep arguing who is responsible for the LCS Gowind Maharajalela screw up. Because problem never solve by politiking and TLDM never get the vessels

The important subject is to save the LCS Gowind project becos TLDM really really need them .

Rewrite back history, get 4 vessels done instead of 6 vessels for the same original price RM$9.12 billion. This mean price per vessel is RM$2.28 billion, BUT with conditions -

1) Boustead to complete only 4 vessels and passed the sea trials and hand over to TLDM within a specific time.

2) The VLS must have ER Mica (Extended Range Mica 40 km) and NOT short range Mica (16 km)

3) The Konesburg missle must be installed

4) maintain black shark torpedoe

5) maintain Same 57 mm main gun and 30 nn gun

6) if can setis change to Thales tacticos.

After all 4 fully completed and handover to TLDM, gomen pay the balance RM$3.12 billion (rm$6 bil already paid)

It is a fair deal at win win situation. Builder Bustead CEO should look at it. Put this on the table to the government. TLDM get 4 vessels with ER Mica and builder get balance of payment of RM$3.12 billion. But balance of payment of pay upon completion and hand over all 4 vessels to TLDM.

Its a good deal for bustead. Build less 2 vessels at the same total price. And TLDM get at least 4 vessels. Sekian

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 18 2021, 03:45 PM

it was a good project.

rather than just getting corvettes as originally planned under SGPV, we should be getting 6 frigates.

but then...

Anyway here are some Indonesian locally designed ships by Terafulk Megantara Design. All ships are already operated by the Navy, Bakamla (Coast Guard) and BNPB (National Agency for Disaster Countermeasure).

The Gowind LCS was originally modularvdesign of 1000 tons, 1500 tons and 2500 tons. Non of the European navy use Gowind even it was designed by Naval Grouo. It was sold to UAE as original 2500 tons .

But Malaysia took a too bold move to change a modular design from 2500 tons corvettes into a 3100 so called light frigates.

It involved redesign and realignment and off courae $$$ up by I am not sure but at leaat 200%. And boustead do not have the expertise and skill to build steah warship from scrap. You buy the blue print already cost you at leaat RM$1 billion.

Is it worth it this lesson at the hand of politikus?? Better buy from ST Marine , Hyundai or Babcock.

Why malaysia build 3100 ton instead use original 2500 ton? Didnt upgrade weapon also

Do you know both the Lekiu class are the only larger missile corvettes F2000 british design of 2,200 tons? Already 25 years in servive . Taken SLEP in 2014. There are only 2 vessels KD Lekiu and KD Jebat and must guard South china Sea and Straits of Malacca

Both ships are getting old but they are the only missile capable corvettes for TLDM. So how....extend their service life again until 2040 or for another 20 years?

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 18 2021, 03:34 PM

Good question. Why not stay at 2500 tons modular design?? Hahaha....😄😋😋
You change design and buy blue print cost you billions but they are not multi purpose light frigate (can perform both AAW and ASW)😁😁😆

Instead pay a bom for ASW

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Sep 18 2021, 03:49 PM

Unlikely to happened.hahahaha

BNS is not MMEH. BNS is relatively new shipyards with not much experience nor have much commercials customer. And thus they relied heavily on their monopoly of navy ship building & maintenance. Without a navy contract they don't have money and thus they won't be able to finish the ship. Like it or not gov need to transfer them the money first not them handing over ship 1st before getting paid.


The problem at BNS is not the lack of good engineer it's the lack of capable & talented management. When the ringgit goes to the drain, rather than trying to salvage and complete at least some ships (that's would win them public & thus political support) they priorities prepaying overseas suppliers. As it is ,it's impossible to cancel the other 2 ship as all the material are already paid for and are here. You can cancelled it buy you ain't getting much saving from it.

MiCa missiles hasn't been bought,what they bought is only the mica launchers. Not sure if current arrangements can enable mica er to be install or not. If you go around and install tacticos might as well just use ESSM. Completing a ship for the sake of completing a ship like the kedah is something we shouldn't do anymore. The ship are build to do a particular task, if it can't do that particular task, you are just wasting money operating & maintaining those ship.

For a custom solution this one bolehlah priced, the belharra frigates afterall cost RM3.5 billions per unit inclusive of R&D cost. RM 2 billion per unit if the R&D cost are absorbed by their taxes payers.

according to the original Gowind contract signed in 2011, the first gowind was planned to be delivered in 2017, the last one in 2020. but you all know what happened.

as per original plan we should have right now all 6 fully operational gowinds.

So as i said, originally the gowinds is a good plan. Fudge up by everyone involved, TLDM, BNS, government caused what it is right now, zero ships completed 2021.




why not stay at 2500 tons? TLDM wants the range to be at least similar or near to the Kedah class. Kedah class range is 6,050 nautical miles (11,200 km; 6,960 mi) at cruising speed. Gowind 3100 range is 5,000 nautical miles (9,300 km; 5,800 mi) at 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph). Gowind 2500 range is 3,700 nautical miles (6,900 km; 4,300 mi) at 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph).

Egyptian Gowind 2500 price is 375 million euros each

Malaysian Gowind 3100 original ceiling price was 400 million dollars or RM1.5 Billion in 2011. So very small difference in price of gowind 2500 and 3100. But now 2021 400 million dollars is how much billion ringgit?

This post has been edited by alexz23: Sep 18 2021, 05:52 PM

Belharra is too expensive for what it is. This is what greece supposed to pay for belharra's. Which is why greece has second thoughts and now is looking at other types of frigates.
https://dsm.forecastinternational.com/wordp...ch-warship-buy/

The Type 31e is better for us in my opinion.

This post has been edited by alexz23: Sep 18 2021, 05:31 PM

PT PAL Indonesia just officially disclosed the Babcock Arrowhead 140 specification for the Indonesian Navy. The weapons especially the missiles will be FFBNW.

Engine
• Main Engine 4 x 9100 kW
• Max speed 28 knot MCR
• Endurance 18 knot 9.000 NM

Armament
• MR VLS 3 x 8 cell SAM
• LR VLS 4 x 8 cell SAM
• LR VLS 2 x 8 cell SSM

https://pal.co.id/2021/09/publikasi/news-be...fregate-kemhan/

This post has been edited by azriel: Sep 18 2021, 05:34 PM

so basically

24x VL MICA
32x ASTER 30
16x EXOCET MM40

basically a lean towards being an AAW frigate. probably would not have towed sonar installed.

Yes more towards AAW role while the FREMM is for ASW role.

Unconfirmed it will be 24 x VLS CAMM-ER.

For the SSM they are looking at VLS. Don't know if there is any Western type SSM VLS.

This post has been edited by azriel: Sep 18 2021, 05:46 PM

none right now.

so they are thinking of the Brahmos on the arrowhead 140?

CAMM-ER?

what will the FREMM be armed with? CAMM-ER also?

VL MICA already with sigma frigate and F2000 corvette.

This post has been edited by alexz23: Sep 18 2021, 05:49 PM

I have no idea. Maybe. Yakhont is impossible due to CAATSA.

VL MICA is short range right? They are looking at medium range VLS.

This post has been edited by azriel: Sep 18 2021, 05:54 PM