Sanwa , Uni-T , Flukes

As I check , Flukes too expensive.Between Sanwa and Uni-T.

Learning for basic testing AC & DC for
-AA recharge Battery (eneloop)
-Phone / Laptop battery ( capacity drop)
-Check for spoil circuit board location on motherboard or handphone.Finding whether it's capacitor problem or chip transistor .
-Maybe check for spoil board on LED monitor , adapter and find a replacement.

mostly purpose is to check for circuit board error issue when it's not working.

Since a beginner , i am not sure which one to choose.
Leaning some basic DIY fixing.


Also , do I need different multimeter to test for car battery or alternator ?

Sanwa can already for home basic DIY.

Flukes of cos for pro means expensive.

Car batt pls get a battery tester. The current (CCA) remaining is in few hundred amps and no basic multimeter can withstand (maybe max 10A only), even a half dead car battery at 200A also will blow up your meter twenty times over before we go into "voltage under load" condition.

https://shopee.com.my/product/51048683/6713...38-1614695768.9
The uni-t auto range meter is easier to use than the manual range select models. It cost more like 58 bucks but for the price able to do capacitance test.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Mar 2 2021, 10:38 PM

What your budget.fluke best

Im using Digitek

UNI-T equally good for a start. I have plenty of their product. FRom small multimeter, clamp multimeter, soundmeter to desktop power bench.

Both Sanwa and Uni-T good enough for personal use.

In terms of accuracy and safety, both are certified to common EC/ETL/UL/GS std.

For same specs, Uni-T will be cheaper than Sanwa (and Fluke of course).

My ex-boss is authorized reseller for Uni-T and Sanwa, can link you up if interested.

For car battery...can try Uni-T UT107 that has special 12V test features.

This post has been edited by duorenz: Mar 2 2021, 10:39 PM

Fluke was too expensive, I usually work with AC 230/415V, need to see AC amps so I got a Kyoritsu clamp meter, works very well for AC amps. Clamp meter usually for noncontact amp measurement and wont be able to do the finer stuff like capacitance test.

For finer work like what TS described the usual multimeter with probes from uni-t eg UT33-A will be good enough.

Essentially..the meter u need will be based on what kind of measurement u intend to do

AC A >10A use clamp meter
Small AC A or DC A below meter threshold (usually 10A max, could be less!) can use the normal multimeter
Big DC A need meter that can support

AC V/DC V normally V is very easy to measure both types also will work

Resistance ohm also common like V, both also can

Capacitance only better multimeter have it. Clamp meter seldom have this. Uni T 33A, Kyoritsu 1009 also can.

Although imma Kyoritsu girl myself coz used to using them in uni, whilst my dad is more of a Fluke person.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Mar 2 2021, 11:09 PM

I m using fluke 179

Get Keysight multimeter

Fluke, but 1 time use forever....

Can Try Kyoritsu.

Japanese tech.

i recommend the following spec :

1. digital multimeter
2. current clamp
3. capacitance

the other specs are usually available on all multimeters.

DIY 8rm kaotim

mr diy can check for pregnancy as well just plug in ear

Sorry for all those who reply in my thread.I though of buying one As for Starter who try to learn electronic but previously went back to work , doesn't have time.Now going to mco or work from home again so i have time study a bit more.

About the Budget Below RM150 ? because I really don't know the real pricing for multimeter

Reason on buying , i repeat.
-As starter or beginner learning electronic
-Want to test all my old AA or AAA battery whether which one I should throw.
-Trying to identified which part of Old spoil Motherboard/Printer/Scanner/LCD monitor and keyboard which have double tab issue.If possible ( want to revive old spoil hardware) by replacing the parts.
-Want to learn on fixing old Mobile phone which does not detect sims card , screen crack , brick and etc.Maybe need a learn soldering technical part.
-Fix old digital watch and analog clock not running.
-Fixing and testing Electronic application like Thermo Pot cannot pump water.

Not going for car battery , start with beginner multimeter first.

So which brand one do you suggest and the price ? My budget max rm200.I am not sure the actual price as mention.That is the above requirement i need for multimeter.Mostly , is to identified what is spoil in the blueprint diagram and try to find a replacement.

Can you describe what are the different between brand which is more expensive ?
There are a lot of model , what is the different in model ? having extra function to test AC/DC accurate ? I prefer digital.

Do I need a separate model to test
-PC motherboard
-Fixing Phone
and etc as above?
:confuse:

Too expensive >rm400.Any beginner ?
No familiar with it and as I check over 1k. over budget for basic use.Maybe oneday I become technician on fixing , i'll need it.
Which model is suitable ? what are the different between model ?
So I need to get all the parts together ? which model have all in 1 ?

I have fluke and sanwa or kyrutso( can't remember which one )

As for a multimeter with current probe you need to ask yourself what is the measurement range. Most multimeter can take pretty large range of voltage same cannotbe said of current measurement. If you intend to measure mA these probes are useless.

get an Aneng for starter!!!
no regrets

uni-t multimeter quite good for hobbyist.. i bought 2 few years ago. 1 with clamp meter, 1 with extra temperature meter feature. no need fluke it gets the job done for me every single time until now. everyday use since almost everyday repair smps. also u may need both digital and analog multimeter since both have different working internal and may be useful in different testing situation. and the cheap china transistor tester also. not perfect but still very useful.

This post has been edited by cikelempadey: May 4 2021, 08:16 AM

I'm a hobbyist. I think uni-T meter is already sufficient for my use.
I have multi meter for general purpose use and clamp meter that can measure DC because i mainly deal with solar.

Uni-T UT61E autoranging multimeter
Uni-T UT210E clamp meter

actually the multi meter I use most often away the workbench is Pro's kit MT-1233D. small and light easy to bring around.



This post has been edited by yushin: May 4 2021, 09:21 AM

Basically the minimum clamp meter you should ever use is a Uni-T. Insulation of the meter will be suspect if no name meter. NCV test. Some are special model w a smaller clamp for tight spot.

All the above desktop application you can use digital multimeter.
There is no one size fit all. It really depends on what scope one does.
Some function overlap. Some are specific to that meter type.

The fundamental differences between the normal desktop meter and clamp meter are AC amps and capacitance measurement.

Clamp meter (being indirect) can measure big AC amps. Desktop meter (direct) will probably go kaboom above 10A. Indirect still ok for electrical, better w true RMS accuacy.
-- Direct probe current measurement (in desktop meter) is for finer electronics work: much more accurate but the range is small.


Desktop multi meter can check capacitance (usually), clamp meter not covered.

Below is Kyoritsu clamp meter. Does 1000 AC A, V AC, V DC, resistance ohms and continuity. NCV indicator works anytime an AC V is detected in close proximity.


Below is knockoff Sunwa (pirated Sanwa) only does up to 0.25 AC A, V AC, V DC, resistance ohms, crude hFE for transistor, and continuity.


This post has been edited by ceo684: May 4 2021, 09:58 AM

Multimeter will work fine for the above electronics testing application.
Clamp meter only if you wanna measure AC amps in your DB box. Multimeter being direct probe will not withstand big AC amps. Itu sahaja.

Brand wise any Uni-T will work fine if you don't wanna spend too much. However, some features like auto ranging, 10A DC amps, and capacitance may only be found in higher model.

RM40 below UNI-T UT33D+ can only do V/10 A/Ω - manual range NO capacitance

RM125 SANWA DIGITAL MULTIMETER CD800A - 600V/0.4 A/Ω/100 μF capacitance
RM130 FLUKE 101 - 600V/NO A/Ω/100 μF capacitance
RM120 Kyoritsu KEW1018H - 600V/NO A/Ω/200 μF capacitance
RM150 Kyoritsu 1009 - 600V/10 A/Ω/100 μF capacitance
RM170 Kyoritsu KEW1021R - 600V/10 A/Ω/1000 μF capacitance

RM85 UT202A clamp meter - 600V/600 AC A, NO DC A/Ω/4mF (4000μF) capacitance. If you need bigger capacitance testing you can look at the UT 203/ UT 204, they have even higher Capacitance Range for these as compared to the UT202A.

This post has been edited by ceo684: May 4 2021, 10:33 AM

i'm using this

the kind of projects you plan to do, doesn't sound like a beginner.

you know ur stuff.

Everyday repairing switching power supply? Expensive types? I normally throw & replaced

I only use multimeter to test my car battery see the battery ok or not.

yes. works related. from cheap to expensive all coming in. if too complex may be take few days just to repair one, is possible. and i only use all those cheap testing tools eventough i have my fluke and my peak atlas rarely used. other such as power supply bench, soldering station and hot air station of course use the expensive one.



one of my uni-t meter

This post has been edited by cikelempadey: May 4 2021, 12:23 PM

Do you do part time repairing jobs?

This post has been edited by adamw: May 4 2021, 12:24 PM

this UT210E is good. can measure DC current with clamp.

another good one is UT139E, got loZ setting for phantom voltage. good to troubleshoot house wiring.

this guy tests many multi-meter.

Beli uni-T. U won't regret for the quality and price.

Using this.


This post has been edited by ShadowR1: May 12 2021, 11:51 AM

Wah flexing. this for work?

Yup ... comp bagi one ... using it for some year now ... change batt once ...

Build like a tank, work like a charm.

sis u know a lot electrical thing also

Also don't forget to pay attention to the protection limit of the DMM, as indicated by CAT I follow by voltage number. This CAT number indicate the amount of impulse that the DMM is designed for and you need to make sure you don't poke at area it is not capable of measuring.

E.g A CAT I 1kV DMM does not mean it can measure any kind of 1000V. It means it is only able to measure 1kV on a non-mains isolated circuit. You will need a CAT II instrument in order to do it on mains circuit. Go look up Measurement Category.

Protection limit is just as important as other characteristic, so remember that.

CAT include the body itself and probe?

Yup, used to play around with my dad's company issued Fluke. But lower range la. Not ur model.
Sometime then I got my own Kyoritsu

I dabbled in electrical a bit used to sell & commission inverters, automation sensors.

For detailed reading on CAT I II III IV see https://content.fluke.com/promotions/promo-...yguidelines.pdf

There will be a max safe rated voltage for each multimeter per CAT category.

This depends on the unit. Need to check spec sheet. Some can have lesser insulation on the probes. It will be stated on the unit where applicable, or where u plug into.

Example of this meter and referring to the fluke PDF above, this CAT III rated to 600V, means premise based three phase 415V also OK, safe to measure 415V equipment and interior wiring,
but CAT IV (TNB grid/outdoor connections) is only rated to 300V so can only use for 230V measurement for that use case, 415V TNB grid/outdoor connection (following the CAT VI type rating) will require a higher rating i.e. CAT IV 600V or better meter to be safe even though the meter technically can measure 600V on CAT III but safety wise its not guaranteed for CAT IV use case.

The amp rating of this meter also rated as 1000A (AC) only. No DC amps.

For electronics applicable should be a CAT I, as Fluke says higher CAT also no harm. But the CAT rating should follow the intended usage esp for electrical high voltage* 230/415V.
*HV as relative to 9V smarttag batteries, otherwise kena kecam by 66kV 132kV folks.

This post has been edited by ceo684: May 12 2021, 03:22 PM


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Yes, probe and instrument has its own protection limit. Some high end probe will even has fuse built-in in order to meet latest safety standard.
So check both ya

haha u all corrects. outside ppl call 415v as LV only

Sanwa , Uni-T , Flukes
As I check , Flukes too expensive.Between Sanwa and Uni-T.
Flukes only for pro. their main model usually cost more than rm1k. the basic fluke 101 (not true rms) can get around rm150
Sanwa as fluke alternative with cheaper price for pro. dmm basic (not true rms) around Rm100+
Uni-T for hobbyist. basic dmm model less than rm50
*my Uni-T UT33C (not true rms) still going strong after 18 years of use.

Learning for basic testing AC & DC for
-AA recharge Battery (eneloop)
-Phone / Laptop battery ( capacity drop)
U need a spesific charger with battery analizer function such as OPUS BT-C3100 (rm150). expensive wall charger (rm60-150) designed for AAA AA & 18650 mostly but by principal, u can connect a wire from each battery end to the charger. it should detect & analize the capacity since most phone using li-ion battery. as for laptop battery, u need to pry open the battery case & remove each of the 18650 cell & then can check using the charger.

-Check for spoil circuit board location on motherboard or handphone.Finding whether it's capacitor problem or chip transistor .
-Maybe check for spoil board on LED monitor , adapter and find a replacement.
mostly purpose is to check for circuit board error issue when it's not working.
u need to remove capacitor & discharge it 1st before can use capacitor tester or dmm with capacitor tester. u wont get true reading because sometimes those capacitor solder in parallel. on board capasitor testing would need an LCR or ESR meter. can get those around rm60-150. while its not 100% accurate but it will give a big hint for u to remove that spesific capasitor & later test the capacitance using dmm/capacitor tester.
*check capacitor without 1st fully discharge it will kill ur meter instantly.

as for chip test function, the device is expensive & i dont bother to check. usually people just swap a new chip. as i have no experience in changing chip so cant comment further.

Since a beginner , i am not sure which one to choose.
Leaning some basic DIY fixing.

Also , do I need different multimeter to test for car battery or alternator ?
for voltage test u can use normal dmm on battery or alternator. off engine, a good battery should have around 12.8 - 13.5v (give or take). with engine on, u are testing the alternator voltage around 13.8-14.1v. u can use dc clamp meter to check its current.

as for to check battery health & crank power reading, u need a spesific battery charger with analizer function. i dont have one but lotsa variety to choose now. if wana buy, please check if have desulfate function which can recondition ur car battery to factory state as long inside plate not damaged.

#MY RECOMENDATION
for all purpose function, i would recommend Uni-T UT240+ (true rms) @ rm150 on shopee (ship from china). its a clamp meter which can read AC & DC current. most clamp meter only can test AC current & usually cheaper. this clamp meter also act as dmm with capacitor & temp reading. clamp meter with DC current test is good to have if u want to do car wiring repair.

Uni-T UT210E also nice, small clamp meter but AC/DC current max is 100A only while 204+ up to 600A.

for capacitor esr test, u can get MESR-100 (rm180) or LCR meter like M-Tester. got few model priced from rm50-100. eg: LCR-TC1,LCR-T7,TC-T7-H

i myself bought TC-T7-H but im sure its a clone since not showing M-Tester on the lcd display. My mistake la finding the cheapest price on shopee with no rating & picture of actual item. However its functioning well. Wish to get the MESR-100 but its too expensive considering can only check capacitor esr.

*dmm = digital multimeter


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get Aneng brand as you do not the the precision for normal use.
cheap and good and if its dies just throw away and buy a new one.

for precision requirement, a bench multimeter is the way to go.

im using a cheap rm20 multimeter now for >5 years and still working good.
maybe im just lucky.....

This post has been edited by COOLPINK: May 12 2021, 05:04 PM

car battery use CCA value. forget the long name

Cold Cranking Amps

Any recommendations for cheap DC clamp multimeter?

UT210E. RM150+, i ordered one today at shopiiii.

Can I ask why measure AC amps at DB box? Is it a normal test for troubleshooting? Curious to learn

The other thing is, I notice the regular residential DB is really crammed with wires, especially at the E & N bars; I'm curious how the clamps can be used. Perhaps only on the big wires in & out of the ELCB & main breaker?

LOL iinm I understand the clamp is really to measure current by inductance (also non-contact safety iinm). But I see many youtubers (some probably working electricians) use the clamp to hang up and free the hands (good idea ). On the other hand, I notice Fluke DMMs have a magnetic strap accessory to do the same thing.

Can I have your opinion on the Fluke 101 for basic troubleshooting residential wiring - light switches, power sockets, aircon/water heater switches? Is it sufficient? Not going to use for troubleshooting appliances that have capacitors ... just wiring (with the mains OFF)

Thanks in advance

PS: I guess key criteria would be reliability & safety which everyone would expect from Fluke. Not so much features. Suggestions for other affordable brands/models most appreciated

This post has been edited by okuribito: Oct 14 2021, 07:17 PM

https://www.uni-trend.com/meters/html/produ...s/UT210_Series/

UT210C Mini Clamp Meter
all rounder from digital multimeter to AC clamp. sufficient for home electrical troubleshooting. got NCV function, can detect live current without touching the copper directly. the small size make it easier to clamp wire inside db box.

UT210D Mini Clamp Meter
like above spec plus DC current clamp ability. DC current check useful for home electronic projects or in car wiring troubleshooting.

last year the price of UT210D around rm150 (shopee) but i end up with UT204+ (same price range). the reason being 204+ can check DC current up to 600A while 210D only up to 200A. the downside of 204+ is the full size clamp make it a bit hard to clamp wire inside db box.

thanks... would you know what test it is that need to check current Amps in the DB? I read that to prove DB is dead, NCV and Voltage is sufficient (haha dangerous to DIY work on live db)

This post has been edited by okuribito: Oct 14 2021, 09:53 PM

Do NOT work on the live DB if you don't have any idea what you are doing in there.

Current Measurement
You can carefully position the clamp not to disturb the wires in the DB and be 100% mindful don't simply poke here poke there.

It is used in residential to troubleshoot AC that die off.. WH load amps.. getting a feel of 3 phase balanced or totally imba circuit assignment.
Usually I used them for commercial work/inverter load monitoring upon commissioning

NCV sufficient, follow with a 2nd test on voltage just to be sure.
You need to understand the concept of LDL (live dead live), prove the equipment works to measure, prove the dead circuit is truly dead reading, prove the measurement is repeatable on live again.

https://www.fluke.com/en-my/learn/blog/elec...voltage-testing

Clamps are for measuring AC amps under load safely. It is NOT a test by itself. It is a measurement.

Why usually at DB? Because its easy to access all the live wire.
There is no better spot (logically) as:
1. concealed wiring = need to tear down the whole wall
2. device on the other end is fixed in nicely = meaning there won't be enough space to slip in a clamp.
3. flexicord L and N cancel each other out = meaning forever 0A reading
4. Fundamental of Clamps = can only work for AC amps measurement when you can isolate only one leg.

Theoretically, you can use a clamp to check full load amps before the compressor motor jams up or sth along those lines.
Other than that, the fluke 101 is kinda like an overpriced A-class.. you get to check voltage and continuity with it. Cannot read current.

If you want to poke around AC.. I'd recommend the Kyoritsu clamp (KEW 2117) over it. Autoranging so lesser chance to blow up.
There you can see.. ahh WH take up 16A..
got voltage checks
got continuity test to see whether fuse blow

Coz voltage will be 230V all over the house unless something is wrong.

Magnetic straps are accessories but not needed.
The CAT III or better rating is the one to be concerned about. Just in case butterfingers.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Oct 14 2021, 11:21 PM

clamp meter can only measure current on single wire either live or neutral wire, cannot both alltogether since it will cancel each other out become 0amp result. this mean if u clamp on regular home appliances 3 core wire, the result is 0amp. thus electrician would clamp on single wire inside db box to measure ongoing current value. however this purpose only to measure how much CURRENT that spesific wiring from a certain fuse. this process need to be done on LIVE DB BOX. so if u need to ask this, i would advice u to dont open the db box. very dangerous u know especially if alone. ask friend who knows or any electrician.

even before NCV invention, electrician use the trusted philips test pen to test any live current from sockets to db box. test pen is a must while NCV for convinience to any electrician.

if u only wish to check how much ur appliances using current/power. u can use this device. i havent bought any but i bet much safer for u than touching live db box.

https://shopee.com.my/%E2%9A%A1-Energy-Mete...00-ab70c1989485

anyway, what is ur intention with DIY WORK ON LIVE DB?

hahaha go to sleep for now & when u wake up refreshed, read my post again... I an inclined towards getting the fluke 101 BUT 2 of the pros are telling me to get a clampmeter which I know I DON'T need

Goodnight bro

TQ for your reply. Much appreciated

IMHO normal householders would not be concerned with the things you described. I dunno if by AC, you mean aircon or alternating current. And by WH you mean watthours or some appliance. Either way, I'm not interested in measuring amps

I can only think of ppl who are wondering why their TNB bill is high & hence wanna "measure" how many amps is running thru which circuit at the DB. Rest assured, I'm not one of them - I'd rather just read the owner's manual or the sticker on the appliance. That's why I don't see the need for a clamp meter; but that's only me LOL



Oh yes! LDL - always prove against a known live. And always zero out the leads & check if the Hold button's been accidentally activated previously


The question then is why would I wanna measure current? My end objective is safety. Will knowing how much current runs thru that wire on circuit xyz add to my safety? If not, I'll pass

TQ for explaining. Helps me decide


I thought the 101 is auto-ranging & cannot fool around selecting specific ranges. And on the contrary, someone said that without an amp socket in the 101, there was less chance for a noob to stick the probe in the wrong socket & blow a fuse

hehe what's this WH? sounds more like an appliance in this context

Edit: LOL water heater hahaha now I can go to sleep

It was just a comparison with using the clamp of a clampmeter for hanging the meter up LOL ummm like using a fridge as a cabinet for stuff??



Couldn't agree more!!!

This post has been edited by okuribito: Oct 15 2021, 12:36 AM

AC = aircond.
WH = water heater.

For troubleshooting it could come in useful to see whether the AC (aircon) motor able to run or it tripped off (condition failed to start, reached Imax, and the AC circuitry cut off) kinda thing. Also it might come in useful to determine if you should shuffle heavy appliances if you're maxing out one circuit (case in point: ideally kitchen sockets should be of sufficient ampacity rating to support all the heavy appliances and not running close to redline 19.9A on a 20A rated MCB on looping circuit)

Mostly any meter will work for continuity test.. basically to ensure from appliance metal body it has good body-to-E, and no continuity from body-L and body-N (just to verify the appliance is not leaking).

Uh yes the 101 is auto-ranging. My thought was distracted by the mention of other Uni-T's (some of which are still manual ranging) earlier in the thread -- and therein lies the legacy problem of the user need to remember to start with the largest range and move down to smaller more appropriate range.

The direct competitor for the 101 will be the Kyoritsu 1009 (CAT III 300V basic model w/o LED backlight) or Kyoritsu 1021R ( CAT IV 300V / CAT III 600V, more sensitive model w/ backlight). Sanwa CD800A (ori not fake Sunwa) also OK- CAT III 600V.
Personally no harm in getting either one of them in this paragraph.. if you like fluke, go for it.

There's a difference in the leads..Fluke, Kyoritsu, Sanwa ones like "wearing baju kurung" only the feet (lead tips) are exposed minimally for 3mm.
Many others especially those generic no name ones.. technically are like "wearing tube top" only (whole probe contact is exposed for a good 12mm) and therein lies the danger.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Oct 15 2021, 01:09 AM


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if u want the fluke 101, then go for it. eventhough it really a basic dmm, it should suffice ur needs. as for me, within the price range of rm150-200, i would rather get uni-t 139 series dmm or uni-t 210 series clamp meter. both series are true rms (depend on model) with all the bell & whistle but china brand lah.

my basic dmm uni-t UT33C still working fine until now. i paid less than rm50 almost 20 years ago.

good luck on ur purchase bro.

you're a champ, maam!!!

No, not that I "like" the Fluke ... just that it's simple & got reputation for quality. Yeah I know it's made in PRC but even Sanwa has mfg in Shenzen

Shopee price ~150 ... Looks like it's the 1021R for me ... it's got backlight which the F101 does not haha. Kyoritsu also a serious brand, right?

Both the K & the F can diy a strap to hang up but the K wins with the probe holder (though dunno if easy to hold the meter with the probe attached & ***stick into power/switch sockets)

As for the test lead design, I only wish the distance between the finger guard & the testing end is longer & the insulation narrower - so that it's easy to find&contact the fixing screws in tight quarters (switches and power sockets). Unfortunately, I think none of the brands have this

Thanks again... you been super helpful & generous with your knowledge

some links:
https://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/files/en/manual/1..._92-2238B_E.pdf
https://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00015/
ps: i noticed the upgrade path LOL ...
PPS: *** I mean after opening the faceplate & probing at the terminals at the back



This post has been edited by okuribito: Oct 15 2021, 03:34 PM

Most welcome Yes Kyoritsu is well-regarded brand in the meter industry.
The 1021R is made in Thailand.
Comes w/ batteries in the box.

Typically it will beep on every button you press..or every click of the main dial. Its good practice to double check the meter settings and mode is correct before you begin to use it.

Test leads options are there if you dabble in finer electronics and stuff, but generally the ones that come in the box are already pretty good.

Typically, switches and sockets should have just enough slack and clearance for sticking test leads, its wired with stiff wire so it will hold position once you massaged out the wires.. no worries on that. Usually they won't give drooping lengths because "too much wire" is hard to get in the backbox.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Oct 16 2021, 01:34 AM

Thanks ceo684

Yeah I appreciate the need for some extra length of wire in there as well as not too much; else cannot close the box LOL Still, i think a longer section with narrow insulation between the barrier/finger guard & the tip will speed up work

Btw, I was learning about RCDs and I think I found a use case for current measurement. Since they work on residual current, one might want to find out how much that residual current is.

My friend had a RCCB that just wouldn't reset after a thunderstorm. The electrician said RCCB damaged by surge & recommended to instal a new one. So my friend did that himself; turned off the Main circuit breaker after the meter & took out the old RCCB & put in a new one, ensuring the Line & Neutral were inserted correctly and tightly

Before he turned the main circuit breaker back on, he pushed the RCCB's switch back on; but it wouldn't engage He also had a good look at the old one (not connected at all) and tried to push the switch back on AND he could! So he took out the new one and connected the old one back in the DB. LOL the switch wouldn't engage in the ON position hahaha

He then reconfirmed that the main CB was OFF & removed one of the Neutral wire from the RCCB; tried to push the switch up again - it engaged & stayed up!

We think there's current in the Neutral but none in the Line - that's why the RCCB wouldn't allow the switch to stay up. I'm waiting for my new Kyoritsu to arrive & I plan to go over to measure the amps across the In & Out Neutral poles on the RCCB (mains off) to test our suspicion. What do you think?

This post has been edited by okuribito: Oct 16 2021, 09:06 PM

Whatever current went IN on hot(s) did not return OUT on N is causing RCD tripping, or rather, even TWO RCD tripping means you (DEFINITELY) have a leaking device/melted socket/plug /wires incorrectly wired are touching earth (lately this miswiring issues are very common - not sure intentional sabotage or just pure noob workers wiring power strips and plugs incorrectly) etc.

Need to troubleshoot by isolating circuits - off all and turn on one by one until you identify the problem. The RCD should be able to hold up with 0 final-circuit MCBs turned on.

The problem with desktop DMM amp measurement is you need to run current in series - i.e. through the meter itself to measure amps - safer with clamp.
The touch at in and out N will not work for current because you're measuring in parallel.
Running current through the meter directly produce a lot of heat.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Oct 17 2021, 03:53 AM

ummmmmm the thing is that the RCCB refuse to engage in ON position... ie there's a break in the circuit because the RCCB refuse to close the circuit ....so if "touch at in and out N" it is in series.... Isn't it?

Only IF the RCCB is in ON position will "touch at in and out N" be in parallel IMHO haha I wasn't sleeping in form five physics class Am I mistaken? hehe double check


thanks for that practical tip about stressing the meter

This post has been edited by okuribito: Oct 17 2021, 01:11 PM

If the Incoming breaker/Isolation switch is OFF, the RCCB will not have energy to trip. This is the way it must work. Please double, then triple check, then call an experienced electrician, because the way you describe your circuit is not how it is supposed to work.

You are trying to sound like you know what you are doing. Please don't; your safety is at risk.

The (2 units) RCCB is already tripping, there is no need to know how much current by measuring at the in-and-out. To measure at the in-and-out Neutral, you will have to short the in-and-out Live, effectively taking the RCCB out of the circuit. You are trying to somewhat measure the leakage current which is unnecessary to solve your problem, but increases your risk.

Just so you know, there are specific instances where leakage current would need to be measured, where the RCCB is shorted out (bypassed) from the circuit. But this leakage current is typically measured using a very sensitive clamp meter.

Cant agree with you more. Recently while installing a simple water filter next to my washing machine, I received a mild electric shock* when my elbow accidentally touched the side panel of the washing machine. When tested with a Philip test pen on the metal drum n metal door hinges of the washer, to my horror, the pen lit up! I suspected during house renovation more than 15 years ago an inexperienced electrical contractor worker must have wired the wires wrongly. My suspicion was proven right when I checked it with a power outlet/socket tester (see pic below). It showed that there was no Earth! 😅 After dismantling the wall socket, I found out that the PVC insulation of Earth cable was not peeled off enough and the tightening screw was actually screwing onto the PVC insulation only instead of on the copper wire! Imagine if there had been a short circuit during the 15+ odd years, you guys wouldn’t be hearing this from me already unless…. 😂😂😂

*Talking about mild electric shock, I had also experienced the same with my MacBook but I had already check the power outlet it’s connected to and the L, N and E were in order. Wonder what could be the reason…🤔



This post has been edited by sevenor: Nov 26 2021, 04:04 PM

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This post has been edited by sevenor: Nov 26 2021, 09:38 PM

IKR. Look at this idiota's work!
Nowadays buy new home really need to tear down every switch and every socket just to ensure that they are all wired correctly.

Some customer place the wires are not even screwed in at the terminal. They just popped out once I open the socket up

This post has been edited by ceo684: Nov 26 2021, 08:12 PM


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OMG!!! 🤦‍♂️

In fact, I had gone to the length of checking all my house power outlets with the outlet tester to make sure that they were wired properly. I don’t know how I could have missed the power outlet of the washer despite being so meticulous! 😂 I had also labeled all the outlets to avoid overloading any particular circuit but in spite of that, recently a 3-pin plug and the wall socket melted! It must have happened over years. Good thing the ELCB had tripped eventually else… The mistake was in connecting a 2400W kettle and a fridge in parallel in the same circuit AND most probably the use of a 3-core flexible cable which was lower than the required rating. Notice that the PVC insulation of the Live wire inside the plug and parts of the plug melted.

This post has been edited by sevenor: Nov 26 2021, 10:07 PM


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This plug seems like it didn't even get a Sirim sticker
But yeah, in the market there's barely passing and better made plug tops and sockets.
I recommend MK. Good stuff and technically not super expensive.

Sockets E2757 or S2757 about rm4.50-5, diff is whether u want frameless or picture frame flush type.

Plug top for high draw device use MK650 duraplug. About 5.50 ea only.

There's subtle diff in tolerances - like the plug top fuse holder grips like hell vs weakling fuse holder from other ciplak plug tops. Loose connections cause fires. It is also important to cut the wire lengths and strip to the correct mm as the cardboard template to achieve a "perfect fit" in the plug top. I had a similar plug top meltdown coz idiota installed it all 3 wires equal length, 1st problem. Led to 2nd problem, it pulled down the fuse holder and created airgap arcing.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Nov 27 2021, 03:12 AM


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Normally I do not pay much attention to whether a product has SIRIM sticker or not. Now I know better! 😅

Yeah, usually if I were buying 3-pin plug, socket or switches, i would go for MK or Schneider-Clipsal. This burnt plug was happened to be on hand when I needed one and I didn’t think much of it. Most likely it came with another product I bought earlier but which had went kaput.

You are making the association that the plug burnt because of the SIRIM status. While this may be somewhat true due to the quality of the plug that can pass SIRIM, it is not always true.

A fuse inserted into a circuit is a weak point for high resistance, as the connection depends on the spring tension and the fuse contacting its socket on both ends. That is why you see burning failure at the fuse - for sockets, for house incoming fuses, for equipment fuses, etc - the contacts go high resistance due to oxidisation over time or losing spring tension. And when something is high resistance, it begins to heat up, maybe to the point of failure.

All my high current extension sockets have the plug fuse bypassed, and overcurrent protection is provided by a MCB. I also wirebrush the socket pins from oxidisation to ensure a good contact within the socket.


On a side note, SIRIM will certify a product for any specifications; for example "this roll of cable is 100 m long ± 1 mm" and SIRIM will pass it if all your cable meets this length. So technically, this roll of cable has a SIRIM certificate. But of course you actually want a roll of cable with a SIRIM certificate to MS2112-3 for electrical specifications to be sure of the electrical characteristics.

Bro, you have misunderstood me. What I meant was, I didn’t take SIRIM’s approval seriously. In order words, I didn’t care whether a product was SIRIM approved or not.

Never crossed my mind that the fuse in the plug top could be the weak link. Learn something! 👍

All your high current extension sockets have the plug fuse bypassed? Wow, very brave of you! What happens if your MCB fails to trip cos MCBs do fail sometimes.

Wirebrush the socket pins? I wonder how many people care enough to do that. I certainly don’t. Never thought of doing it in fact although I have wirebrushes! 😂

Actually not really brave. I make my own high current extensions, so I include a 16A MCB at the metal clad socket extension itself. So 2 MCBs (one at the DB, another at my socket) need to fail at the same time for a failure to trip. Don't forget the item plugged into the extension still has their fuse in the plug.

I also have a 10 mA RCCB mounted with a short lead and a socket, just in case I need to use power tools and work in damp areas.

See, actually NOT brave, and take a lot of extra precautions. Actually, now that I'm talking about it, I think I should change all of them to 10 mA RCBOs. After all, I can only die once, and I don't want to use that card too soon.

MCB or RCCB at the wall socket? I’m curious to learn how you do it. Mind share a picture of it? TIA

Sure. Just do something like this. Since the fuse in my 3-pin plug for my extension is bypassed, then the board is installed with a MCB for protection. This picture is from Sh*pee, mine is in the car, lazy to go and take. But I hope you get the idea.



This post has been edited by stormer.lyn: Nov 28 2021, 09:57 PM

Oh this is the extension you meant. I believe I’ve seen it used by electrical contractor during my house renovation many years ago. I didn’t pay much attention to it then.

To wirebrush the metal parts of all the plug tops and wall sockets around the house will require crazy amount of work! 😅Instead, I think I’ll just wirebrush (with cordless drill) only the plug tops only of those power-hungry appliances and maybe smear a thin coat of Vaseline on them after that. 😀

This post has been edited by sevenor: Nov 30 2021, 04:04 AM

Ayam uses Fluke 101. From price list above, just like last time, most multimeter are almost the same price range (RM100–200). Ayam choose Fluke because it is branded and would probably last longer. The Fluke seems easy to use with no range selection. There is also no current measurement, so you will never have to worry about burning your fuse.

Same as ts, ayam brought the multimeter for basic stuff like measuring battery and sockets.

Not to say i want to say but ayam used to use Keysight multimeter at wok . Those came with lots of accessories hooks and probes.
The Fluke comes with zero accessories and the basic crappy probes. You will need to buy a clip or hook for the negative end.

These are actually what I want but the prices...

Those prices are one thing to consider. But I prefer making my own units as I have control over the parts I use and can replace in case there is a fault. Imagine something drops on the switch and it breaks. I for sure don't want to spend money another time. But in my self-built unit, I can change the metal clad socket by itself. If you can do the replacing/servicing yourself, then it may be something to consider when you buy items.

Actually, I'm capable of making the wooden extension myself. It's true. The one we make ourselves, if using all quality parts, will be much better and safer than the ready made one sold in the shops. What I'm looking for is a wall socket with RCD and not an extension.

This MK Electric 2 Gang RCD Socket will be nice to have. Having said that, I think it's not really necessary if RCDs are already installed at the DB box, unless like you, the fuse in the plug tops are bypassed. Furthermore, if possible, to inspect the plug tops, maybe once a year, to make sure that they are not oxidized.

good tip on cleaning the 3 prongs for oxidation...

i believe they are copper? can use brasso?

Oh, I understand where you are coming from now about the RCD in the socket. Would be nice to be in the USA where the outlet is GFCI protected, and only a few dollars more costly only.

But like you said, the RCD is already in the DB and that is enough. I just want to point out that the MK RCD socket version is 30 mA, and that is not very protective in a wet area. Wet areas are to have a 10 mA RCD, and this is especially important to me when I am using power tools outside. That's the main reason why I have the RCCB extension with a 10 mA trip level.

How I wish this MK RCD (aka GFCI) socket costs a few dollars more than the normal MK socket! It’s more than 700 bucks! 😅

Equivalent is PDL Elimit 10mA about 85
https://s.lazada.com.my/s.3SNja

I actually have one of that but it’s more of a tester than a wall socket. Don’t know if PDL makes one like MK’s 2 gang one.