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 [Alignment Guide/General Discussion], How to interpret wheel alignment number?

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TSzeng
post Aug 21 2021, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(billychong930518 @ Aug 5 2021, 10:22 PM)
Hi guys,

wanna ask do you have any recommended trusted tyre shop to do balancing/alignment in Mahkota Cheras/C180 area without need of changing charmber?

My car is Proton Saga VVT version
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QUOTE(zeng @ Aug 6 2021, 12:15 PM)
Edit: IIRC, there is a shop in Salak South that uses 'manual' method and a very famous alignment shop along Jalan Klang Lama that uses computer alignment method. I have to do some search, if there is a need.
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It is Syarikat Kee Hin - Tyreplus along Jalan Klang Lama on your Left after passing by a BHP petrol station (PJ bound from KL city centre).

@ceo684 has good remarks/experience with Kee Hin's alignment results.

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 21 2021, 11:50 AM
DanialTan1990
post Aug 24 2021, 09:09 PM

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Any recommended tyre shop with no chamber bent scam?
speedy3210
post Aug 24 2021, 10:02 PM

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QUOTE(DanialTan1990 @ Aug 24 2021, 09:09 PM)
Any recommended tyre shop with no chamber bent scam?
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Where are you located? No point people recommend to you someplace in Klang Valley when you are in Sabah, for example.
DanialTan1990
post Aug 25 2021, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(speedy3210 @ Aug 24 2021, 10:02 PM)
Where are you located? No point people recommend to you someplace in Klang Valley when you are in Sabah, for example.
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Sorry forgot to tell.

Subang Jaya
TSzeng
post Aug 25 2021, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(DanialTan1990 @ Aug 25 2021, 12:44 PM)
Sorry forgot to tell.

Subang Jaya
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My Avanza Front camber bolts were supplied and installed by this Kim Heng Tyre Service SS14/1 some 6-8 years ago, no problem till todate and are still in use.

Did wheel alignment over there too, not aware of any dis-satisfaction with their service thus far.

@speedy3210 is probably well versed with some tyre shops in Subang Jaya/USJ too?

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 25 2021, 02:49 PM
speedy3210
post Aug 26 2021, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Aug 25 2021, 02:47 PM)
My Avanza Front camber bolts were supplied and installed by this Kim Heng Tyre Service SS14/1 some 6-8 years ago, no problem till todate and are still in use.

Did wheel alignment over there too, not aware of any dis-satisfaction with their service thus far.

@speedy3210 is probably well versed with some tyre shops in Subang Jaya/USJ too?
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Kim Heng is actually relatively near to my home, but I actually like the job of my usual tyreman more. Doesn't matter it he is actually >30km away. Been to Kim Heng twice but somehow his service is not as satisfactory as my usual go-to. And all the jobs were on my daily workhorse wira.

As for Kee Hin, tried his service once when my usual go-to was ill due to cancer. Also OK like Kim Heng, but I think he is more reliant on the alignment rig.

As for my tyreman, I like his skill in reading my tyre wear and adjusted accordingly. Started going for his service in 2000, when I was looking for even tyre wear, and progressed to more corner stability from mid 2000s onward.
TSzeng
post Aug 27 2021, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(speedy3210 @ Aug 26 2021, 04:41 PM)
Kim Heng is actually relatively near to my home, but I actually like the job of my usual tyreman more. Doesn't matter it he is actually >30km away. Been to Kim Heng twice but somehow his service is not as satisfactory as my usual go-to. And all the jobs were on my daily workhorse wira.

As for Kee Hin, tried his service once when my usual go-to was ill due to cancer. Also OK like Kim Heng, but I think he is more reliant on the alignment rig.

As for my tyreman, I like his skill in reading my tyre wear and adjusted accordingly. Started going for his service in 2000, when I was looking for even tyre wear, and progressed to more corner stability from mid 2000s onward.
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Hi bro, thank you for sharing your experience with Kim Heng (Subang Jaya) and Kee Hin (Jalan Klang Lama) for the benefit of the readers here.

It appears to me your usual go-to tyreman could well be a 'hard to find' knowledgeable alignment guy around in the market.

Besides adjusting alignment angles according to reading your tyre wear patterns, can he mods and makes alignment adjustment to Rear cambers and toes of a fixed live axle (like Avanza) and/or rear torsion beams (like prius) or could he recommends one who can undertake such mods (as Toyota factory does not provide for Rear camber/toes adjustment) ?

Mind sharing location of your usual go-to tyreman for the benefit of all, as I'm keen to check with him on the mods ?

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 27 2021, 02:10 PM
Mooneyes
post Aug 27 2021, 05:35 PM

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I changed my tie rod end and rack end recently. Then I went for wheel alignment. Came out the wheel is straight but the steering is not. What seems to be the cause?
ktek
post Aug 28 2021, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(Mooneyes @ Aug 27 2021, 05:35 PM)
I changed my tie rod end and rack end recently. Then I went for wheel alignment. Came out the wheel is straight but the steering is not. What seems to be the cause?
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happen same when stop and moving rite.
TSzeng
post Aug 28 2021, 12:12 PM

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QUOTE(Mooneyes @ Aug 27 2021, 05:35 PM)
I changed my tie rod end and rack end recently. Then I went for wheel alignment. Came out the wheel is straight but the steering is not. What seems to be the cause?
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Short answer: incorrect toe angles.CMIIMW.

Any computer print-out or phone camera picture on specific readings , including Rear alignment angles?
....... unlike alignment angle picture in Post #1 which is NOT complete,
without Rear alignment angle readings.


Mind sharing what car model is that?

I suppose your Front suspension is MacPherson type, just guessing.

What about rear suspension type?

Is it Independent suspension or non-Independent types?

If non-Independent, is it Rear live/dead/fixed axle type (like Avanza) or Rear Torsion beams (like -2015 Prius) or ...........???

2016-up Prius is NOT rear torsion beam type!

I know most owners do not know all the above details about their own cars...... and that's forgiven imo,
however at least provides Car models and Model Year..........
which would help (a lot of) other readers here to better understand your context and circumstances, and comment accordingly if need be.

Otherwise, most of us would be just blur blur......

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 28 2021, 12:29 PM
Mooneyes
post Aug 28 2021, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Aug 28 2021, 12:12 PM)
Short answer: incorrect toe angles.CMIIMW.

Any computer print-out or phone camera picture on specific readings , including Rear alignment angles?
....... unlike alignment angle picture in Post #1 which is NOT complete,
without Rear alignment angle readings.
Mind sharing what car model is that?

I suppose your Front suspension is MacPherson type, just guessing.

What about rear suspension type?

Is it Independent suspension or non-Independent types?

If non-Independent, is it Rear live/dead/fixed axle type (like Avanza) or Rear Torsion beams (like -2015 Prius) or ...........???

2016-up Prius is NOT rear torsion beam type!

I know most owners do not know all the above details about their own cars...... and that's forgiven imo,
however at least provides Car models and Model Year..........
which would help (a lot of) other readers here  to better understand your context and circumstances, and comment accordingly if need be.

Otherwise, most of us would be just blur blur......
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Sorry no picture. It is a 2010 honda city with torsion beam rear suspension.
Mooneyes
post Aug 28 2021, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(ktek @ Aug 28 2021, 10:14 AM)
happen same when stop and moving rite.
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Can explain more on when stop and moving? Mu steering wheel senget after alignment. The shop have to manually adjust without alignment machinr to make the steering straight again.
TSzeng
post Aug 28 2021, 01:27 PM

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QUOTE(Mooneyes @ Aug 28 2021, 12:44 PM)
Sorry no picture. It is a 2010 honda city with torsion beam rear suspension.
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All readings were in green and none in red colours?
Actually, being all green is NOT good enough.
Did any one of your Rear angle readings in red?
I ask because Factory most likely does not provide rear alignment angle adjustments for a Rear Torsion Beam design. After-market? Not sure.

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 28 2021, 01:30 PM
TSzeng
post Aug 28 2021, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(Mooneyes @ Aug 27 2021, 05:35 PM)
I changed my tie rod end and rack end recently. Then I went for wheel alignment. Came out the wheel is straight but the steering is not. What seems to be the cause?
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You mean whilst driving straight ahead, I suppose?

Either way during testing do you:
a )let go steering wheel with both hands off OR,
b )either or both hand(s) has to 'hold tight' to the steering wheel?

Steering wheel off centre whilst driving straight ahead?

Pointing towards 11 o'clock (Left) or 1 o'clock direction (Right)?

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 28 2021, 01:38 PM
TSzeng
post Aug 28 2021, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(Mooneyes @ Aug 28 2021, 12:46 PM)
Can explain more on when stop and moving? Mu steering wheel senget after alignment. The shop have to manually adjust without alignment machinr to make the steering straight again.
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That is why majority of car owners like us pay buta-buta for so-called the alignment service BUT end up with 'cannot pakai' or unsatisfactory alignment jobs including me, which is as good as NO alignment job was done.

This is part of my motivation in initiating this thread, so that we learn some knowledge and eventually make required 'demands' on those half-past-six alignment shops/tyreman scattering all over the towns.

Edit:
a )Is the car driving stable on straight highway fast speed, say around 110 km/hr or more?
b )and turning left and turning right equally firm and steady, or a bit nervous?

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 28 2021, 01:57 PM
Mooneyes
post Aug 28 2021, 03:27 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Aug 28 2021, 01:27 PM)
All readings were in green and none in red colours?
Actually, being all green is NOT good enough.
Did any one of your Rear angle readings in red?
I ask because Factory most likely does not provide rear alignment angle adjustments for a Rear Torsion Beam design. After-market? Not sure.
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All front in green. Cant remember the rear readings
Mooneyes
post Aug 28 2021, 03:27 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Aug 28 2021, 01:36 PM)
You mean whilst driving straight ahead, I suppose?

Either way during testing do you:
a )let go steering wheel with both hands off OR,
b )either or both hand(s) has to 'hold tight' to the steering wheel?

Steering wheel off centre whilst driving straight ahead?

Pointing towards 11 o'clock (Left) or 1 o'clock direction (Right)?
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Yes. Off center to the left
TSzeng
post Aug 28 2021, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(Mooneyes @ Aug 28 2021, 03:27 PM)
All front in green. Cant remember the rear readings
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QUOTE(Mooneyes @ Aug 28 2021, 03:27 PM)
Yes. Off center to the left
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Assuming there is no suspension components being loose/faulty and absence of tyre conicity, most likely the Front and/or Rear toes are out.

Cambers may or may not be a problem.

In this scenario, one or more tyres (Front Left in particular) may get uneven tyre wear in times to come.

How severe? I don't know as we have no data points at the moment.

I went back to same shop for foc re-alignment rectification job (7-10 days after the first alignment job) as my Avanza drifts/veers towards left whilst driving straight ahead with both hands off the steering wheel, hence I suppose you could go back to your shop with the above description of problems with a view of getting a re-do at FOC.

To snap phone camera pictures, try stay nearby right in front of computer screen snapping pictures away as the re-alignment job is being done, come back here for clarification if need be.

If your current Front suspension strut does not come with adjustable eccentric bolts for Camber adjustment, you may consider getting the eccentric camber bolts set sorted out and do up the Front camber at one go.

See if you can snap Rear alignment angles as well, never mind it may not be Factory adjustable for now.

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 28 2021, 05:44 PM
Mooneyes
post Aug 28 2021, 06:55 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Aug 28 2021, 05:38 PM)
Assuming there is no suspension components being  loose/faulty and absence of tyre conicity, most likely the Front and/or Rear toes are out.

Cambers may or may not be a problem.

In this scenario, one or more tyres (Front Left in particular) may get uneven tyre wear in times to come.

How severe? I don't know as we have no data points at the moment.

I went back to same shop for foc re-alignment rectification job (7-10 days after the first alignment job) as my Avanza drifts/veers towards left whilst driving straight ahead with both hands off the steering wheel, hence I suppose you could go back to your shop with the above description of problems with a view of getting a re-do at FOC.

To snap phone camera pictures, try stay nearby right in front of computer screen snapping pictures away as the re-alignment job is being done, come back here for clarification if need be.

If your current Front suspension strut does not come with adjustable eccentric bolts for Camber adjustment, you may consider getting the eccentric camber bolts set sorted out and do up the Front camber at one go.

See if you can snap Rear alignment angles as well, never mind it may not be Factory adjustable for now.
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Front tyres are new. Change them 2 weeks ago fyi

TSzeng
post Aug 28 2021, 08:20 PM

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QUOTE(Mooneyes @ Aug 28 2021, 06:55 PM)
Front tyres are new. Change them 2 weeks ago fyi
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With new tyres in Front, you can rule out tyre conicity as a cause of your current predicament.

Having said that, the overlays of nylon ply and/or steel belts circumferencially as such during the factory manufacturing process itself could also be causing tyres pulling or drifting to one side whilst driving straight ahead.

However, this is very rare indeed but it still happens. Such 'problematic' new tyres installed at Rear axle could go undetected until that particular tyre is installed on either of Front tyre in days ahead.

Hence I personally do install two new tyres at Front axle and not Rear, for this possible but rare scenarios.

One really need not unnecessarily worry about the above scenario of new tyre 'problem', until and unless a near 'perfect' alignment of all 4 wheels have been achieved (and this is NOT easy to attain) .......
failing which contributes to the super majority of drifting/veering one side, off centre steering wheel etc phenomena.

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 28 2021, 08:26 PM

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