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 [Alignment Guide/General Discussion], How to interpret wheel alignment number?

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TSzeng
post Oct 23 2022, 10:15 AM

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How Different Types of Suspension System Works? Explained in Details
by The Engineers Post

06:53 Types of Suspension System;
07:08 Independent suspension system;
08:00 Types of ISS;
08:11 a) MacPherson Strut Suspension type;
09:12 b) Double Wishbone Suspension type;
10:01 c) Multi-link Suspension type;
10:38 d) Trailing Arm Suspension type;
11:11 Non Independent or Rigid Axle Suspension System;
11:50 a) Solid Axle Leaf Spring Suspension type;
12:38 b) Solid Axle Coil Spring Suspension type;
13:19 c) Air Suspension type;
13:57 d) Hydro Elastic Suspension type;


15:13

Edit:
Semi-independent suspension system - (Rear) Torsion Beam Coil Spring type?????

This post has been edited by zeng: Oct 23 2022, 10:18 AM
TSzeng
post Nov 12 2022, 04:29 PM

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How does the Steering Wheel automatically returns to its centre?

by Lesics



This post has been edited by zeng: Nov 12 2022, 04:38 PM
ktek
post Nov 18 2022, 04:12 PM

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without independant suspension, we still can adjust tyre air pressure to overcome him
TSzeng
post Dec 24 2022, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Aug 21 2021, 11:45 AM)
@ceo684 has good remarks/experience with Kee Hin's alignment results.
*
For the first time, I visited Kee Hin (Jalan Klang Lama) yesterday at 2.45 pm for a wheel alignment job with complaints/nuisance of my 2007 Avanza pulls/drifts to the left by itself on straight roads/highways AND steering wheel cocks or off centre to the Right whilst driving/tracking straight ahead with firm steering input.

In total contrary to @ceo684 opinion, I had a totally opposite or different and nasty alignment experience with them.

It is completely unprofessional and a rubbish wheel alignment job I get from them with my vehicle pulls to Left AND steering wheel off centre to Right problems remains totally unresolved with warranty being denied.

A more detailed and complete explanation on this nasty experience of mine with Kee Hin will follow here.

Note:
Base on my recent wheel alignment experience, the workmanship of Speed City Tyre & Trading Sdn Bhd, Jln Tok Ungku, Seremban in December 2020 (2 times, with second time being a warranty repeat job) and a wheel alignment check by Tyreplus -SL Car Care, Klang (at no charge to me) in March this year 2022 are far far better and a lot more professional and accurate than KH.

Edit: Add google address.

This post has been edited by zeng: Dec 24 2022, 10:31 AM
wong_86
post Dec 31 2022, 06:43 PM

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Toyota vios kena bang left side tyre , go alignment test, found out rear LR alightment value is negative 1.65 and 1.35, technician said they can’t adjust it, in long run tyre will makan dalam,so ask suggestion here, stay in JB

This post has been edited by wong_86: Dec 31 2022, 06:44 PM
TSzeng
post Jan 2 2023, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(wong_86 @ Dec 31 2022, 06:43 PM)
Toyota vios kena bang left side tyre , go alignment test, found out rear LR alightment value is negative 1.65 and 1.35, technician said they can’t adjust it, in long run tyre will makan dalam,so ask suggestion here, stay in JB
*
What model year is your Vios and what's the numbers for individual Rear toes and Front toes?

Your technician comment on rear cambers of -1.65° left and -1.35° right is Internet 'wisdom' popularly published ........ which sometimes is NOT true for one of the rear tyres.

Your rear toes of Left and Right tyre will reveal angles that actually cause 'accelerated' rear tyre wear, either even wear or uneven wear pattern.

For reduced wear rate, it is essential to adjust rear toes rather than the rear cambers, which in your case the rear cambers provides greater safety and vehicle stability in taking corners or turning. The chances of 'dangerous' oversteer phenomenon is reduced considerably in your case.

Hence, do consider keeping the existing rear cambers but have the rear toes adjusted to minimal positive toe in's, if you so wish.

The technician is correct in saying the rear toes and cambers in a Vios can't be adjusted, with toyota parts or by service centres.

However, it can be done with shim method which fortunately is available for you in a Kempas JB wheel alignment shop.

Go to Post #2 (or is it Post #1) of this thread, under list of alignment shops ..... look out for some contact details of the shop.... which i think is Jettsin or something.

Edit: The front individual toes can influence whether it is outer edge wear or inner edge wear on rear tyres with excessive Rear Total and individual Toes.

Excessive rear negative cambers does influence whether it is outer or inner edge wear, BUT in itself does NOT cause excessive tyre edge wear if you know what I mean.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 2 2023, 11:39 AM
wong_86
post Jan 2 2023, 03:36 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Jan 2 2023, 11:30 AM)
What model year is your Vios and what's the numbers for individual Rear toes and Front toes?

Your technician comment on rear cambers of -1.65° left and -1.35° right is Internet 'wisdom' popularly published ........ which sometimes is NOT true for one of the rear tyres.

Your rear toes of Left and Right tyre will reveal angles that actually cause 'accelerated' rear tyre wear, either even wear or uneven wear pattern.

For reduced wear rate, it is essential to adjust rear toes rather than the rear cambers, which in your case the rear cambers provides greater safety and vehicle stability in taking corners or turning. The chances of 'dangerous' oversteer phenomenon is reduced considerably in your case.

Hence, do consider keeping the existing rear cambers but have the rear toes adjusted to minimal positive toe in's, if you so wish.

The technician is correct in saying the rear toes and cambers in a Vios can't be adjusted, with toyota parts or by service centres.

However, it can be done with shim method which fortunately is available for you in a Kempas JB wheel alignment shop.

Go to Post #2 (or is it Post #1) of this thread, under list of alignment shops ..... look out for some contact details of the shop.... which i think is Jettsin or something.

Edit: The front individual toes can influence whether it is outer edge wear or inner edge wear on rear tyres with excessive Rear Total and individual Toes.

Excessive rear negative cambers does influence whether it is outer or inner edge wear, BUT in itself does NOT cause excessive tyre edge wear if you know what I mean.
*
Model Vios GX

Yeah, yesterady morning i just went there ( Jetsiin auto in Kempas industri area), i presumes is ah Bao, give me two solution, change the axle or shim the camber, i took second solution.
It took near 2 hour to fix the rear left alightment, 4-5 times mount and unmount the tyre, add or reduce the washer, finally the value is toe 0.2, chamber -1.2, all front and rear green color.

He charges RM80 shim camber, RM30 alighment, which is very reasonable, he did it very professional, also remind me pay attention if replace the bearing, big kudos to him thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by wong_86: Jan 2 2023, 03:55 PM
TSzeng
post Jan 2 2023, 09:07 PM

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QUOTE(wong_86 @ Jan 2 2023, 03:36 PM)
Model Vios GX

Yeah, yesterady morning i just went there ( Jetsiin auto in Kempas industri area),  i presumes is ah Bao, give me two solution, change the axle or shim the camber, i took second solution.
It took near 2 hour to fix the rear left alightment, 4-5 times mount and unmount the tyre, add or reduce the washer, finally the value is toe 0.2, chamber -1.2, all front and rear green color.

He charges RM80 shim camber, RM30 alighment, which is very reasonable, he did it very professional, also remind me pay attention if replace the bearing,  big kudos to him  thumbup.gif
*
Wow.. 4-5 times of mount and unmount of tyres with nearly 2 hours. A shimming job could indeed be quite a 'headache' for a pro. Imo, RM80 for shimming is really value for money for owners of cars whose rear axle is either Rear Torsion Beam or live solid axle - in which the Rear cambers and toes is supposedly not adjustable.

+0.20° Rear Total Toes would be having normal tyre wear rate, even at rear cambers of -1.20° or more negative.

However, if individual rear toe for one side is +0.20° with the other side about the same ...... then you're going to have 'accelerated' abnormal rear tyre wear rate despite of less negative rear camber of -1.20°.

Hence you may want to ascertain that the +0.20° mentioned is Rear Total Toes.

Yes, it is Ah Bao whom I had contacted about my Avanza rear live axle shimming proposition. Unfortunately he is of the opinion shimming can't be done on my rear wheel drive RWD Avanza. 2-3 other mechanics I contacted has similar opinion as Ah Bao's.

However, I still believe shimming can be done on a Rear Wheel Drive Avanza like mine ..... hence the search continues ...... hopefully someone would do it for me in years to come.

Btw after current wheel alignment, do your steering wheel off to one side whilst driving straight ahead ?

Does the Vios drifts or pulls to one side without steering input?

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 2 2023, 09:13 PM
wong_86
post Jan 3 2023, 08:25 AM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Jan 2 2023, 09:07 PM)
Wow.. 4-5 times of mount and unmount of tyres with nearly 2 hours. A shimming job could indeed be quite a 'headache' for a pro.  Imo, RM80 for shimming is really value for money for owners of cars whose rear axle is either Rear Torsion Beam or live solid axle - in which the Rear cambers and toes is supposedly not adjustable.

+0.20° Rear Total Toes would be having normal tyre wear rate, even at rear cambers of -1.20° or more negative.

However, if individual rear toe for one side is +0.20° with the other side about the same ...... then you're going to have 'accelerated' abnormal rear tyre wear rate despite of less negative  rear camber of -1.20°.

Hence you may want to ascertain that the +0.20° mentioned is Rear Total Toes.

Yes, it is Ah Bao whom I had contacted about my Avanza rear live axle shimming proposition. Unfortunately he is of the opinion shimming can't be done on my rear wheel drive RWD Avanza. 2-3 other mechanics I contacted has similar opinion as Ah Bao's.

However, I still believe shimming can be done on a Rear Wheel Drive Avanza like mine ..... hence the search  continues ...... hopefully someone would do it for me in years to come.

Btw after current wheel alignment, do your steering wheel off to one side whilst driving straight ahead ?

Does the Vios drifts or pulls to one side without steering input?
*
not quite sure is negative or positve 0.20, didnt capture the monitor, just saw all the values are in green color, ah bao also said gaodim, i not expert on car, so i trust him what he said, will monitor the tyre wear condition time to time.
- the steering not wheel off while driving straigh head
- my car will drift slowly in left or right in straight line without steering input

This post has been edited by wong_86: Jan 3 2023, 08:29 AM
TSzeng
post Jan 4 2023, 01:50 PM

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QUOTE(wong_86 @ Jan 3 2023, 08:25 AM)
not quite sure is negative or positve 0.20, didnt capture the monitor, just saw all the values are in green color, ah bao also said gaodim, i not expert on car, so i trust him what he said, will monitor the tyre wear condition time to time.
- the steering not wheel off while driving straigh head
- my car will drift slowly in left or right in straight line without steering input
*
The fact that all the (rear) values is green means they are within (Toyota?) alignment specification range adopted by Jetsinn computer.
So the toe value of 0.20* degree cannot be toe out (-ve) but definitely is a toe in (+ve) .
On most car brands (inc Vios GX, I believe) Rear Total Toes of +0.20 degree is typically within factory specification.
But individual rear toes per side of +0.20 degree for Vios GX? I'm not sure, as I don't have info or access to Vios GX factory specification range.
However +0.20 degree individual rear toe per side for some Hyundai Elantra and Accent is within specification.
But the same value is out of factory specification for some models of BMW, VW and Audi.
Glad to learn that Jetsinn gives you a properly centred steering wheel whilst driving straight ahead.
On drifting slowly to the left or right whilst driving straight without steering input, it could be related to your front alignment angles, which is unknown for now.

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