According to YS Khong Driving at 13:30 and 14:53, Front Wheel Drive cars should have called for toe outs (negative toe).

As this Dongfeng Peugeot 1.6L and 2.0L cars alignment specificatons calls for toe out's (negative), can you establish these cars are both Front Wheel Drives and not Rear wheel drive, as per YS Khong Driving's?

By being of lesser toe out's as done by the tyre guys (towards neutral or toe in's) can you feel the supposed difference in turning Right/Left at tight corners as being less responsive or less light, if perceptible?

It's supposed advantage being less twitchy on highway straight ahead driving I suppose.

For the benefit of other readers, my 'translation' of the specs are as follows:

Front Axle:
Camber LHS -0.2(+0.6/-0.4)°
Camber RHS -0.2(+0.4/-0.6)°

SAI/IA* LHS -12.7(+0.4/-0.6)°
SAI/IA* RHS -12.7(+0.6/-0.4)°

Caster ---

Toes -2.5±1 mm


Rear Axle:
Camber -1.8±0.5 °

Toes 5.9±1 mm

This post has been edited by zeng: Apr 23 2021, 07:39 PM

Yes these cars are definitely front wheel drive.

Indeed I don't get the chance to try out the factory suggested toe value. My regular tyre shop refuse to follow because they claim I will need to get new tyre from them very soon.

Hi bro,

This Dongfeng Peugeot being a Front Wheel Drive has 'correctly' spec'ed a toe out for Front axle tyres in accordance with YS Khong Driving proposition. This imo is good practice.

Having said this, Dongfeng OEM has spelled out a toe out range from -3.5 mm to -1.0 mm (Correction: -1.5 mm). Contrast this with YS Khong Driving's proposed toe out of -0.6 mm or -0.7 mm or up to -1.0 mm of a typical Front Wheel Drive, I would personnally tag along with YS Khong's as being more appropriate imo.
Note: Your's proposed value of -1.0 mm toe out is reasonable and workable which imo your alignment guy should have adopted it.

Taking into consideration of YS Khong Driving's position, if it were me I would be agreeable with your alignment guy in 'shrinking' smaller OEM's toe outs angles to follow that of YS Khong Driving's toe out's of say -0.6 mm to -1.0 mm.

Your alignment guy may have a valid point in not complying with OEM's proposed/specified toe out values from -3.5 mm to -1.5 mm and I personnally concur with his saying "you will need to get new tyre from them very soon" may be valid afterall.

However, as of now you have not been able to spell out to us the exact values of toe out's/toe in's as provided by your alignment guy and I really hope he is kind of complying with YS Khong Driving's proposition in your context.

Edit:Do your previous worn out front tyres show higher wear rates at the inside edges of the tyres, if you can remember? Of course your driving style matters a lot.

This post has been edited by zeng: Apr 23 2021, 09:52 PM

Realising this Dongfeng Peugeot has a factory preferred RHS Front camber being more negative than that of LHS (i.e unbalanced Camber angles),
which may not suit our Malaysian road crowns as it possibly promotes cars veering left when driving straight ahead, among others ............

Do your car prone to veer left when new?

Wondering if other local Peugeots has similar 'unbalanced cambers' at Front axles from factory, and if so any veering left phenomenon among Peugeot owners?

Just curious.

This post has been edited by zeng: Apr 27 2021, 01:48 PM

Frankly speaking I can't really remember as the alignment seems fine all the while. It does not really pull to one side.

I believe a slight camber imbalance would not cause the car to pull. It's the tyre, bush and fittings that cause the pull.

I'm fact the outside seems to have slightly more wear than the inside.

Agree with you a slight camber imbalance may not cause a car pulling oneside.

In fact some cars do provide spec range of ±00°30' as acceptable difference between LF and RF camber angles.

Having said this, feedback from Peugeot thread does suggest pulling left was a problem for KL's Peugeots, but that was probably way back in early 2010's.

Could it be Peugeot Malaysia (or dealers) may have rectified this pulling left phenomenon in a recent year or two?

This post has been edited by zeng: Apr 30 2021, 08:35 PM

I asked about inner edge wear because of the huge amount of toe outs recommended by factory.
You seem to have no such huge toe out thing with more wear on outside edge.

Over-steer and Under-steer problems and its adjustments :



Source: Automobile handling, Wikipedia

This post has been edited by zeng: Oct 25 2021, 12:41 PM

In summary, make the axle that lose traction softer to increase grip/the axle that has too much grip stiffer to reduce grip.

i just leave it the shop they more expert do it everyday
but if they start to talk shit need to add chamber nut or what shit...i wud just walk off

One may be surprised that the use of camber/eccentric bolts in most modern vehicles is indeed genuine.



This post has been edited by zeng: Jun 3 2021, 02:08 PM

Interesting ....
that a brand new BMW 2020 M4 Sedan(?) Coupe at 64 miles (100 km or 64 miles) has
out-of-specification Toe and Camber alignment angles ............



Why and how could it be ?

Source

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 7 2021, 10:17 AM

wow steering pun miss center

Concur with you the steering wheel is likely off-centre, possibly pointing right(?) if I may add.
IIRC, a thead respondent inferred this 64 mile M4 before current alignment could be pulling right during straight ahead driving.
However the owner was complaining about out-of-spec alignment in this new car and its non-adjustable Front camber unless parts are replaced.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jun 10 2021, 10:31 AM

Summary of alignment specifications for:

2015-2020 BMW F82/F83 M4 Coupe 20 inch Wheel (Modified Specification);

Front
Camber Minimum -2.00° Maximum -1.00° Preferred -1.50° Tolerance ±0.50° ;
Toes Minimum -0.02° Maximum +0.18° Preferred +0.08° Tolerance ±0.10° ;
TotToe Minimum -0.03° Maximum +0.37° Preferred +0.17° Tolerance ±0.20° ;
SteerA Minimum -0.05° Maximum +0.05° Preferred +0.00° Tolerance ±0.05° ;


Rear
Camber Minimum -2.00° Maximum -1.40° Preferred -1.70° Tolerance ±0.30° ;
Toes Minimum +0.01° Maximum +0.21° Preferred +0.11° Tolerance ±0.10° ;
TotToe Minimum +0.02° Maximum +0.42° Preferred +0.22° Tolerance ±0.20° ;
ThrustA Minimum -0.17° Maximum +0.17° Preferred +0.00° Tolerance ±0.17° ;

This post has been edited by zeng: Jun 19 2021, 12:19 PM

Hi,

Steps and interpretation of wheel alignment angles by a retired alignment business owner (Australia)

Go to Reply #6 of this thread ...



... on How to align a Mercedes Benz 280 SE W116 with Air Suspension.

It is nice and good he did measure the Rear camber and toe angles, but only adjusted Front Caster, camber and toe.

Question: Did Carl make a mistake in the final (Front) adjustment?

Note: 2-wheel front alignment vs thrust line alignment vs 4-wheel alignment.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jul 10 2021, 11:16 AM

Update, 6 months later.

By March 2021, I dropped Front tyres to 37 psi from 40 psi. Rear pressure remains the same at 40 psi. There is no perceptible improvement in vehicle drifting left problem (with both hands off ) and steering wheel is still pointing slightly (towards) right when driving straight ahead.

Front tyres were not swapped left right as a possible 'solution' till todate as suggested by some above, yet.

Note:In February 2021, on closer inspection outer edges of both front tyres had worn more than inner edges with RF outer edge slight more severe ..........I believe most likely this has been happening all along well before the Dec 2020 wheel alignment.

By July 2021 today, there is an improvement in steering wheel seems no longer pointing (towards) right like previously but pointing quite straight ahead.

Has conicity/wear pattern of front tyres improved substantially enough (post alignment) to make me feel better currently ?

However, vehicle drifting left problem (with hands off the steering wheel) remains the same.

Note: Someone(s) has/have suggested above this drifting left problem could be caused by 'unknown' Rear toes which was not 'measured or displayed' in December 2020 alignment readings and he/they could all be right afterall..........
hence the requirement for a more 'complete' Thrust Line Alignment (generally lacking in local alignment industry) instead of the incomplete Front End Alignment broadly adopted locally.

Of late I realise turning right seems to be harder than turning left in relative terms. It requires quite a bit of steering effort to do turning.

Not sure if this has anything to do with reduced Front pressures of 37 psi, or other unknown causes like too high a Front total toes of +12' left and right ?

This post has been edited by zeng: Jul 21 2021, 01:40 PM

Sharing another differrent alignment specs (from Version 1.0) for an Avanza F601 from an Indonesia blog :




Summary of F601 Ver 2.0 alignment specifications -

Front
Toes Minimum -00°12' Maximum +00°12' Preferred +00°00' Tolerance ±00°12' ;

Camber Minimum -01°15' Maximum +00°15' Preferred -00°30' Tolerance ±00°45' ;

Caster Minimum +03°34' Maximum +05°34' Preferred +04°34' Tolerance ±01°00' ;

SAI Minimum +11°25' Maximum +13°25' Preferred +12°25' Tolerance ±01°00' ;


Rear - N/A.



Note:
Previous Ver 1.0 specs Preferred Camber is +00°30' vs -00°30' here.

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 2 2021, 11:53 AM

Hi guys,

wanna ask do you have any recommended trusted tyre shop to do balancing/alignment in Mahkota Cheras/C180 area without need of changing charmber?

My car is Proton Saga VVT version