Having adjustable camber or not doesn't make a car nicer or lousier to drive, having fixed camber means there is one less thing to worry about when doing alignment

Independent suspension doesn't mean you will have adjustable camber, and anything that is adjustable means it will come loose at some point

I'm driving Mazda 3 2014 with adjustable suspension hence I can get more camber for the front using slotting, but only at less than -1.5 degree, my car is always straight and steady within the car slide limit, this is why reading per side whole doing alignment is more important and my thrust angle is always 0

Camber only help in cornering and in fact too much camber is bad for straight line stability and braking because too much camber will reduce the traction when the car is going straight, and it also cause uneven wear from the tyres, this is why most cars come with a near 0 camber and at most less than -1 degree

Car drifting can be cause by uneven tyres wear, type of tyres and uneven corner weight too, and since you said one of your rack end is loose it is time to inspect and replace if necessary along with the top mount

My measurement is always in degree, since alignment machine show degree by default

Folks, watch your car rear wheel alignment #s .......



Source: Total Vehicle Alignment

In all cars, what is the:

a )Minimum;

b )Maximum, and

c )Optimum

tyre pressures recommended/allowed AND safe ???

Is it measured Cold or Hot?

Link

How Different Types of Suspension System Works? Explained in Details
by The Engineers Post

06:53 Types of Suspension System;
07:08 Independent suspension system;
08:00 Types of ISS;
08:11 a) MacPherson Strut Suspension type;
09:12 b) Double Wishbone Suspension type;
10:01 c) Multi-link Suspension type;
10:38 d) Trailing Arm Suspension type;
11:11 Non Independent or Rigid Axle Suspension System;
11:50 a) Solid Axle Leaf Spring Suspension type;
12:38 b) Solid Axle Coil Spring Suspension type;
13:19 c) Air Suspension type;
13:57 d) Hydro Elastic Suspension type;


15:13

Edit:
Semi-independent suspension system - (Rear) Torsion Beam Coil Spring type?????

This post has been edited by zeng: Oct 23 2022, 10:18 AM

How does the Steering Wheel automatically returns to its centre?

by Lesics



This post has been edited by zeng: Nov 12 2022, 04:38 PM

without independant suspension, we still can adjust tyre air pressure to overcome him

For the first time, I visited Kee Hin (Jalan Klang Lama) yesterday at 2.45 pm for a wheel alignment job with complaints/nuisance of my 2007 Avanza pulls/drifts to the left by itself on straight roads/highways AND steering wheel cocks or off centre to the Right whilst driving/tracking straight ahead with firm steering input.

In total contrary to @ceo684 opinion, I had a totally opposite or different and nasty alignment experience with them.

It is completely unprofessional and a rubbish wheel alignment job I get from them with my vehicle pulls to Left AND steering wheel off centre to Right problems remains totally unresolved with warranty being denied.

A more detailed and complete explanation on this nasty experience of mine with Kee Hin will follow here.

Note:
Base on my recent wheel alignment experience, the workmanship of Speed City Tyre & Trading Sdn Bhd, Jln Tok Ungku, Seremban in December 2020 (2 times, with second time being a warranty repeat job) and a wheel alignment check by Tyreplus -SL Car Care, Klang (at no charge to me) in March this year 2022 are far far better and a lot more professional and accurate than KH.

Edit: Add google address.

This post has been edited by zeng: Dec 24 2022, 10:31 AM

Toyota vios kena bang left side tyre , go alignment test, found out rear LR alightment value is negative 1.65 and 1.35, technician said they can’t adjust it, in long run tyre will makan dalam,so ask suggestion here, stay in JB

This post has been edited by wong_86: Dec 31 2022, 06:44 PM

What model year is your Vios and what's the numbers for individual Rear toes and Front toes?

Your technician comment on rear cambers of -1.65° left and -1.35° right is Internet 'wisdom' popularly published ........ which sometimes is NOT true for one of the rear tyres.

Your rear toes of Left and Right tyre will reveal angles that actually cause 'accelerated' rear tyre wear, either even wear or uneven wear pattern.

For reduced wear rate, it is essential to adjust rear toes rather than the rear cambers, which in your case the rear cambers provides greater safety and vehicle stability in taking corners or turning. The chances of 'dangerous' oversteer phenomenon is reduced considerably in your case.

Hence, do consider keeping the existing rear cambers but have the rear toes adjusted to minimal positive toe in's, if you so wish.

The technician is correct in saying the rear toes and cambers in a Vios can't be adjusted, with toyota parts or by service centres.

However, it can be done with shim method which fortunately is available for you in a Kempas JB wheel alignment shop.

Go to Post #2 (or is it Post #1) of this thread, under list of alignment shops ..... look out for some contact details of the shop.... which i think is Jettsin or something.

Edit: The front individual toes can influence whether it is outer edge wear or inner edge wear on rear tyres with excessive Rear Total and individual Toes.

Excessive rear negative cambers does influence whether it is outer or inner edge wear, BUT in itself does NOT cause excessive tyre edge wear if you know what I mean.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 2 2023, 11:39 AM

Model Vios GX

Yeah, yesterady morning i just went there ( Jetsiin auto in Kempas industri area), i presumes is ah Bao, give me two solution, change the axle or shim the camber, i took second solution.
It took near 2 hour to fix the rear left alightment, 4-5 times mount and unmount the tyre, add or reduce the washer, finally the value is toe 0.2, chamber -1.2, all front and rear green color.

He charges RM80 shim camber, RM30 alighment, which is very reasonable, he did it very professional, also remind me pay attention if replace the bearing, big kudos to him

This post has been edited by wong_86: Jan 2 2023, 03:55 PM

Wow.. 4-5 times of mount and unmount of tyres with nearly 2 hours. A shimming job could indeed be quite a 'headache' for a pro. Imo, RM80 for shimming is really value for money for owners of cars whose rear axle is either Rear Torsion Beam or live solid axle - in which the Rear cambers and toes is supposedly not adjustable.

+0.20° Rear Total Toes would be having normal tyre wear rate, even at rear cambers of -1.20° or more negative.

However, if individual rear toe for one side is +0.20° with the other side about the same ...... then you're going to have 'accelerated' abnormal rear tyre wear rate despite of less negative rear camber of -1.20°.

Hence you may want to ascertain that the +0.20° mentioned is Rear Total Toes.

Yes, it is Ah Bao whom I had contacted about my Avanza rear live axle shimming proposition. Unfortunately he is of the opinion shimming can't be done on my rear wheel drive RWD Avanza. 2-3 other mechanics I contacted has similar opinion as Ah Bao's.

However, I still believe shimming can be done on a Rear Wheel Drive Avanza like mine ..... hence the search continues ...... hopefully someone would do it for me in years to come.

Btw after current wheel alignment, do your steering wheel off to one side whilst driving straight ahead ?

Does the Vios drifts or pulls to one side without steering input?

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 2 2023, 09:13 PM

not quite sure is negative or positve 0.20, didnt capture the monitor, just saw all the values are in green color, ah bao also said gaodim, i not expert on car, so i trust him what he said, will monitor the tyre wear condition time to time.
- the steering not wheel off while driving straigh head
- my car will drift slowly in left or right in straight line without steering input

This post has been edited by wong_86: Jan 3 2023, 08:29 AM

The fact that all the (rear) values is green means they are within (Toyota?) alignment specification range adopted by Jetsinn computer.
So the toe value of 0.20* degree cannot be toe out (-ve) but definitely is a toe in (+ve) .
On most car brands (inc Vios GX, I believe) Rear Total Toes of +0.20 degree is typically within factory specification.
But individual rear toes per side of +0.20 degree for Vios GX? I'm not sure, as I don't have info or access to Vios GX factory specification range.
However +0.20 degree individual rear toe per side for some Hyundai Elantra and Accent is within specification.
But the same value is out of factory specification for some models of BMW, VW and Audi.
Glad to learn that Jetsinn gives you a properly centred steering wheel whilst driving straight ahead.
On drifting slowly to the left or right whilst driving straight without steering input, it could be related to your front alignment angles, which is unknown for now.

Hi @wong_86,

How is the rear tyre life after shimming in km so far?
Normal or accelerated tyre wear in your opinion?

This post has been edited by zeng: May 28 2024, 10:51 AM

I tried contacting another 3-4 alignment/workshops who all said shimming on a RWD like Avanza cannot be done, including Oscar Bukit Kemuning.

However I managed to convince Ah Dong of Oscar to do so while I'm responsible should rear axle oil leaks occur in future.

The rear alignment numbers before shimming were:

Camber
L= -00.31°, R= -00.06°

Toes
L= -00.03°, R= -00.15°

Total Rear Toes= -00.18°

Thrust Angle= -00.06°

Edit: Add image


0.3 mm shims were added to the Right Rear but he refused to add 0.1 mm shims (which I had with me) saying it's so little and minute that it makes no difference, which I beg to differ.

Of the 4 bolts on Right Rear, these 0.3 mm shims were added at Rear bolts (top and bottom)

Unfortunately, AFTER rear alignment numbers were not displayed -hence not photoshot by me.

Will report back after test driving for some time, post rear shimming job.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jun 13 2024, 10:27 AM

Oscar test drove the Avanza and concurs:
a) steering wheel is slightly off-centre to the left i.e about 6 mm base on left/right (wiper/head lights) sticks markings, and
b) vehicle pulls or drifts to the left with both hands temporarily off the steering wheel whislt driving straight ahead.

Without checking front wheel alignment numbers, Oscar proceed to lift up right front tyre (only) off the ground and began adjusting camber bolt(s) on right front.

Note:No lifting or camber adjustment on left front tyre.

After making right front camber adjustment, the front wheel alignment reads as follows:

Front
Camber -00.38°(L), +00.49°® ;

Toes +00.50°(L), +00.20°® ;

The finishing numbers were as follows:

Camber -00.21°(L), +00.44°® ;

Toes -00.01°(L), -00.01°® ;

36 hours after collecting the Avanza from Oscar, the initial test driving feedback thus far is:

a) Whilst driving straight ahead holding firmly to the steering wheel, instead of steering wheel off-centre to the left initially now steering wheel off-centre is even worst than before to the right by some 20 mm of desired wheel position.

b) Vehicle is still pulling/drifting to the left like before, with both hands temporarily off the steering wheel whilst driving straight ahead.

In short, general wheel alignment job by Oscar tak boleh pakai langsung, in respect of problems a and b above.

I would like to speculate front and rear tyre wear rate issue should be ok, if any but only time will tell.

Note: I paid RM90 - RM50 for shimming right rear axle and RM40 for wheel alignment.

This post has been edited by zeng: May 28 2024, 09:17 PM

10 days after (mis)alignment by Oscar I visited Single Dove USJ19/2 on 6/6/24 about:

a)To check and confirm previous rear left tyre alignment as negative toe out.

b)Steering off-centre to the right by about 20 mm whilst driving straight ahead,

c)Vehicle pulls to the left (4 seconds at 60 km/hr) from right tyre on white line to left tyre touched on white line within the same lane.

In contrary to rear left tyre alignment at negative toe-outs by SL Car Care Klang (-0°09' dated 31/3/22) and Oscar (-0.03° dated 6/6/24), Silver Dove measured both rear left and right toes as positive toe-in as below:



Note: I've strong suspicion on its accuracy showing rear left toe as positive toe-in of 0°02' .

The horrible part of front wheel alignment attempting to correct problems b and c above was that this was carried out without displaying the front wheel alignment numbers.

They messed around with both front left and right tie-rods (to change front toes) and no camber adjustment was made and call it quits.

After paying RM40 for the supposed front wheel alignment job, sure enough my test drive for the past one week there is no improvement in my complaints b and c above.

Returning on second day to correct the vehicle pulling left problem in particular, the shop shocks me by merely swapping front tyres left/right and the car was NOT put on the alignment machine to re-measure and adjust the front cambers as well as the front toes.

To me this is another scam alignment job.

no shop want help accurate alignment one. blame here n there.
have u found official sc with these machine ?

btw inspect ur shock mount n bush all got senget or not

mine too mount is broken. that y cannot center line unless hispeed

Not sure of what you meant to say, the image below suggests this Silver Dove machine is an HPA C400.



I'm sure my shock mount bushings (and other suspension bushes) are not loose or senget.

Anyway whenever a suspension components like shocks or arms etc senget, it would be reflected very bizarre or out of mind alignment numbers in a properly set-up alignment process.

But heck, my current problem is the appropriate alignment numbers are not displayed by Silver Dove whilst making adjustments to the front toes/cambers 'blindly' -

this to me is a slip shot job and/or a scam as far as correcting vehicle pulling left AND steering wheel off-centre to the right phenomena is concerned!

This post has been edited by zeng: Jun 22 2024, 08:23 PM