Fuh.. typical Malaysian mindset.
Dei. Late is late...

One reason why clock in never works.

Let's say I left my phone at my house. If I go back to my house to take my phone, I will most probably be 5 minutes late. So I just go to the office anyway. Do you think I will be able to concentrate for the rest of the day?

But people get penalized for stupid things such as this instead of getting their work done

This post has been edited by sickjoker: Dec 8 2020, 10:25 AM

legal yes after 3 wiring letter

Hmm fair point I guess

Exactly this. I mean sure I apologised for being 5mins late to work for that 1 week. But getting angry over 5mins late for the whole week is pretty telling of the management tbh. What more I have some colleagues who said "if I'm late for 5mins I won't even bother showing up to office". They have that kind of mindset. To be honest 5mins lost is just that 5mins. Staffs still have 7hrs 55mins to complete their work and target. Better 5mins late than never at all!

1 week as opposed to 52 weeks of work. 1 week late does not mean the other 51 weeks people will be late. You will rather have your staff come in by 5mins late but still have the remainder 7hrs 55mins to complete their daily/weekly tasks.

It's like people losing rm1 and then getting pissed over it. It's just rm1, not rm1,000,000,000. Not like we're earning much either we are even working 1/2 days Saturday.

My personal experience, its all depends on your manager. It was the manager who reported to HR. HR come and give warning and probation period. If manager still not happy, then you can be laid off due to no discipline and unable to meet company requirement. Another manager I've worked with, never reported to HR even staff late for an hour each day. What matter is they deliver and easy to reach via phone.

This only works if you are not front facing customer or similar to that line.

This post has been edited by alien505: Dec 8 2020, 11:02 AM

Sorry TS i am not knowing you that well.
Are you saying this is the first time u late to work (though it is entire week) for whole year? The rest of the 51 weeks you never being late to work before.
If yes, then I had to take back my words.

I had to clarify that i dont think being late to work is an issue. But if it is repetitive for the entire week, I think something wrong is here. But if you saying you seldom late to work and this is your first time to do so, I think your boss is being too strict on this. Nonetheless, your boss should know you better than me.

Haha...I am HR kuli, bukan expert.

Can he/she make up for lateness? This is depends on the company & management, but I believe majority managers will not allow it.

1) For example, if you are in manufacturing (assembly line), each worker start their production at 8:30am. If one person late to the production line, the whole production target will be affected.

2) Some of the company still has key holder practice(the last person lock the door). If the staff want to make up for the lateness, but key holder want to lock office door on time & go back home. In this case, it become impossible to stay up.

3) the 48 hours per week is an example. Most of the company will indicate the working hours in employment contract clearly, such as 9am - 6pm Monday to Friday.

etc....will add on if any.

Any company that needs you to work on Saturday in office is surely a Chinaman-style old-fashioned company that values only zombies.

Try to find your way out or you will suffer imbalances in your life. It's even more damaging when your earnings don't mean much, especially when you take Saturday as typical holidays to be spent with your loved ones or friends.

The govt should make Sat/Sun triple the daily pay compulsory regardless of industries to discourage workers exploitations.

As for your lateness of 5 mins, the mutual respects go both ways. The HR shouldn't interfere with your timeliness unless specifically directed by your superior or HOD. Direct involvements by HR means that the company is a small biz that doesn't value talents (if there is even a talent management team) that needs robots, not human for the work.

This post has been edited by abc2005: Dec 9 2020, 12:37 AM

Not everyone works in manufacturing line, or in customer service jobs. I'm sure a good lot of us a just your regular Joes, regular Janes working white collared jobs. Yes we do check in at 8am/9am Mondays to Saturdays (my company work 1/2 day Saturdays). Thing is I've elaborated in the other comment. You come in 5mins late, you still have 7hrs 55mins to get your daily, weekly, monthly tasks to complete. Would you rather have an employee coming in late by 5mins, but still get things done? Or would you rather have an employee who knows they are late by 5mins but choose not to come in to work *at all*?

Think about it. The employee still have 7hrs 55mins to do the work anyway. It's still an honest day's work after all. What more a lot of Malaysian companies don't even pay OT for white collared staffs. If they really want to be so calculative, then nobody's gonna win this blame game. This whole "I slap you, you stab me" mindset has to be killed off once and for all.

When I first joined this company I thought things seemed OK. 2-3mths in is where all the cinapek mannerism start showing. At one point I have to deal with a 40yo colleague (or department HOD) and his crybaby ass. He legitimately cried when we disagreed with his flawed idea and presentation. I'm not kidding he broke down in tears what a fucking nightmare! The boss actually sided with him just because he's older. The whole debacle got so bad the other guy just decided to up and leave the company. Because there's no way 2 20+yo youngsters have to deal with a man twice our age who knows nothing but only to cry when we point out the flaws and want to correct it.

That's how shitty the company's mindset is. They basically run on this "I can do this to you, but you cannot do this to me" mindset and "you step on my foot, I will stab you to death" approach. Just last week we have 1 biz dev coming in. Within less than 1 week she decided to just give 24hr and leave because somehow the management is just too overbearing and cannot see beyond their nose. So yes my current company is memang a chinamam company lol.

This post has been edited by Redshelf411: Dec 9 2020, 08:27 AM

Perhaps, but it also depends. Like in my office, honestly speaking - both my superiors have no issue with our team coming in slightly late and whatnot. To them it's a menial issue and most of the time we work more than required anyway. So long it does not fall habitual in being late everyday.

Its the HR and top management who wanted to implement the system that ties in bonus with lateness

Haha how often would we get experts lurking here. Most of us here more or less are kulis.

No, I'm not referring to whether employees are allowed to 'make up' for their lateness. Was referring to the fact that employment clause states employees must work min 48 hours. So my point is, even if included in the late hours, the employee still contributing >48 hours, is it deem ineffective for the employer to take action?

.

No doubt your point if the person is a 'key holder' or if they're in the manufacturing line - there's utter importance for accurate time to report in. But so far in most of the work places I've been in (apart from 1 or 2), everything is auto and all you need is your staff card to enter.

Even if there are key holders, there will be a few people with keys. There's no concern about no one opening the door or 1 person being late which then causes everyone else to be late too. If there is such practice in the workplace, then my comment is - it lacks proper planning. What if the sole key holder has an emergency? What is the key holder, for example, forgot his key that day? 101 possibilities. Never rely only on 1 person.

I think some sort of compassion should be shown to the colleague. Why he behaved that way - partially could be due to stress, or he has mental health problems. He may be dealing with problems that nobody knows. What happened could be an outburst after he was being cornered.

End of the day, mass majority will find it hard to not work for Chinaman companies because SMEs are >90% in Malaysia.

Well. Typical. But then, we can see people trying to defend this old man behavoir.

In an MNC, this guy will be kick out no question. But then in a cinapek company, you can do virtually anything once you reach a certain position like I implied earlier. This guy basically knows once he uses this tactic, he basically wins. But then we also know that this guy is probably shameless. What kind of person will behave like this at such a age? No shame? See. This is what happens when you stay in a toxic environment for too long.

In fact, I am still "adapting" working in a cinapek company. A person can virtually be useless but yet still get away with it just because that person has experience in working at a small company. I dunno. They can virtually steal and take your credit in an obvious manner and still get away with it. And there is no shame in them doing it at all even though it is so obvious. And the stupid manager will somehow still side with that person. For example, I provided a architecture diagram for the whole system. The new person that comes in just made a little change to that diagram, prettify it and then send it to the group. And of course the stupid manager sided her because I am in very bad terms with him.

Now you know why that 40 year old can cry and still get away with it.

So the question is, do you really want to deteriorate to such a level working in this kind of conditions.

I know one thing. Once I resign and the whole system get messed up in the process, that manager will still continue in his ways just because he can.

Actually let me add something to make this more interesting.

I have shown very clear intentions of leaving. And yet I was still "mistreated" just because I show face to my boss.

Of course, if they could kick me out, they would have done so a long time ago but yet for some reason my boss treated me not in the best possible way.

The thing is, I am like a walking time bomb. Once I leave, the project that I am involved in will probably take a very "long time" to restart again seeing the capabilities of the people joining my team.

But then my boss still thinks that he is actually "god".

See the stupidity in this kind of company?

Actually adding one more observation.

The person who newly arrived acted arrogantly towards me even though she needed to learn about the system from me and also her abilities are not really up to par. I dunno how chinapek companies work. But then in most scenarios, this person would probably be let go right since if I cannot work with her, I will have to request to the boss that she leaves.

But then she probably knows how the system work having work in cinapek companies b4.

Everyone has stress and deal with problems outside of work, us included. What gives this dude the right to throw a tantrum in the office? His life is hell, does not mean he should make others' lives hell. We just merely let him know there's a mistake in his work. All he need to do is just make the changes and get on with life. We didn't get paid to be workplace nannies.

True though. I've observed in the last 5-6 months of working here, he's started by talking crap and spreading rumours about the other guy. Mind you, this other guy (our IT guy) is also new as he came in around the same time we do. This IT guy found out and confronted him a few times about it. Nicely and politely of course. But everytime he tried to talk to the 40yo guy, this 40yo guy will just walk away or pretend the IT dude isn't there. Until that "fateful day" when we pointed out the mistakes this 40yo guy did, that's when he go into a crying tantrum and do whatever other shit. The HR girl gave him a warning letter, and gave me a verbal warning. The warning letter the IT dude received was his sign to leave the company. Printed out a resignation letter and submit on the spot. Said he's gonna leave and just don't contact him anymore.

What makes me stay, you ask? I'm still looking for a new job here in East Malaysia. I may not like where I am now, but believe me I'm trying my best to look for a better job here. Hells be damned if I have to work Saturdays in the next company. Dealing with a 40yo crybaby in the workplace is mega ridiculous. Company giving warning over 5mins late is just as ridiculous too.

Good lord this company and country is going to the dogs. Everyone thinks its ok to be shit to each other, but if people bite back it's like they've been sinned against a million times

Checked with my HR college about your question here.
As long as staff was late for even 2 minutes only, it still consider as "lateness", and company is able to take disciplinary actions to end the employment contract after few warning letters. It happen to some of my colleges also.

As mentioned, end of the day this is depends on your superior/manager, whether they will cover you or not.
Assuming you are one of the poor performance staff in the department, definitely "lateness" will become one of the points to against you.

This post has been edited by Jesse0916: Dec 9 2020, 10:37 PM

That's more of the reason to get this shit done with ASAP. In East Msia, there would not be much other than oil & gas, logging, and fisheries. Not sure about your industry but if you are into oil&gas, you should aim for reputable companies like Shell or Petronas and the likes. Chinaman-style companies are quite prevalent in S&S compared to West Malaysia where the HQ are more likely to follow international standards of 5-day work week. Having your boss to defend the indefensible made things even worse.

If all else fail, try to look into opportunities in West Msia or SG if your skill-sets are in demand. Just never settle for less or compromise on Saturday work, unless you can get replacement leaves or compensated for your work.

Am looking into west Malaysia tbh. Not gonna lie, here I am in the office and I'm already bored AF with work. What more the management forever having their eyes on us is pretty tiring though. What could have been an easy, stress-free job job turned into one that's making me burnt out.. Hells.. My colleague next door has been dozing off more often than usual. In a day he can be sleeping for up to 45mins-1hour. Snoring some more. Ughh shit company is shit company!

a lot of people mention japanese company, chinaman company. eh, if you have stupid boss who is very critical about timing, malay, and indian company also the same la. they will still find excuse to penalise you.