win by cheating ............. mclaren

are you sure? read my post and please gave your thoughts.

Now, the verdict is better. At least, it reminds all the teams that they should not steal or receive any documents. If there are no punishments, then every team will do the same.

Regarding the performance though, we couldn't judge who's better and whether it is because of the usage of the stolen documents. Only the key personnel in the teams know it well, right?

well in my post, i want to point out that one of the reason why a Ferrari driver is not on top of the drivers' championship table. Its more their own fault rather than Mclaren's, imo.

If you recalled in many of the post qualifying interview, the Mclaren duo always stressed that the Ferraris is more faster in race trim.

so Mclaren have Ferrari documents, surely Ferrari still have a copy of the documents right? Is ferrari did nothing to improve their car? Is ferrari designer stupid? i dont think so.

that isn't the main point of this debate isn't it? Yes, Ferrari drivers made a ton of mistakes this season but I can say its their effort to keep up with McLaren's "sudden" form of reliability...which the people (non-McLaren fans) are saying that they stole critical information from Ferrari to improve on.

To suggest McLaren's reliabilty is because of the Ferrari data is an insult imo. McLaren's problems have almost always been engine related and Mercedes has done a great job this season ironing out the problems that have plagued the seasons past.
The FIA will have to produce a transcript of the hearing. I for one would be very interested in how they arrived at their ruling.

Cheat machine? Well from my point of view, had McLaren not obtained those documents, Ferrari would have been cheating with that moving floor throughout the whole season.

I don't mean it as an insult, I like both teams to be frank with you...now that Michael is gone. I only do not like Alonso.

I'm suggesting McLaren's reliability because for as long as I have watched F1...McLaren drivers have been not up to par with Ferrari. Now all of a sudden, they're there...and better! Remember how Mika blew his engine in 1999 or 2000...in USA causing Michael to have the perfect chance to win the championship in the final race at Suzuka? And he did win? The next year was a nightmare for Mika...Kimi didn't really fair well either with his reliability problems in McLaren although he did manage to catch up quite near in points.

guys...
if wanna celebrate celebrate in ferrari's thread since this is common thread...
anyways FIA didnt penalised mcclaren for lying after all they said only coughland knew about it...
wut mroe they did gave warnign to kick them out if found guilty (for lying as well)...
so mcclaren can be considered lucky...

yeah i do agree with that.its definitely impossible 4 a team who owiz have high retirement 4 many years 2 suddenly so gawdlike in few months.4 sure sumtin is surely fishy in the car.i wont say no more.i will just hear the verdict 4 the final decision.

This post has been edited by skylinegtr34rule4life: Sep 14 2007, 10:15 AM

I would like to ask.. if there is no cheating or whatever.. why coughlan ask Stepney to put white powder in the Ferrari??

err...isn't the final decision already out? Or you waiting for appeal result?

yup...kimi n massa did messed up abit..

but if mclaren didn't got ferrari document, they won't be so fast either, getting all d better qualifying times...

even if massa n kimi dnf few races...they still can beat all d rest (if not becoz of mclaren ****)

Then u have not been watching F1 long enough. The reason reliability problems crept into the Mercedes engines was because the FIA decided to ban the use of beryllium after 1998 forcing a redesign. Who complained about beryllium? You guessed it: Ferrari.
And you are forgetting one thing: this season there is a rev limit cap for the engines thus making it alot easier for engineers to make reliable engines. Give credit to Mercedes/Ilmor where it is due instead of just speculating.

lets take a look at another perspective, the Mc's may have their point stripped, for this year and next year but not the driver's points rite. so lewis and alonso could still go all the way to win the WDC. next year Mc's drivers could still go damn far like what they have done this year, the team may not win the WCC trophy and recognition, but we all know if this case never happen, we are well aware of who is the best team out there.

I'd say next season will be a VERY interesting one. Ferrari will defend while McLaren will be coming out fighting to prove a point and to regain their pride. Thank goodness the drivers are not caught in this crossfire and allow to continue their private battle. Good for neutral F1 kaki like me.

exactly what i'm trying to say in my previous post, ferrari would defend their title, and if next year Mclaren drivers can score points for themselves like what they did this year, we all know who is the better team. BMW sorry, jk.....what Mc's missed are the team points, possible trophy and the recognition.

I don't need to watch F1 10 years before posting on it rite? Anyway about that berryluiusdasdnkeuh, it was banned in 1998. How long does it take to redesign another with somewhat similar reliability? Its been almost 10 years and McLarens have to wait till the rev limit cap to help them? I don't think so...and was the berry-based engine reliable to begin with that time?

Rev limit does help the engineers a little but that is also just speculation. How can you prove that it did indeed help the McLaren engineers with engine reliability? Any reports?

This post has been edited by young_soul: Sep 14 2007, 11:09 AM

No CONCRETE evidence yet on the usage of the ferrari data so don't jump into conclusions and wait for the FIA's verdict on this.

If you can, find me a source where ferrari data are being used in mclaren's car

already got punish by court...sure got source wan la..

but not for lay-man like u lah