1 . I'll recommend medical to be plan for longer coverage. Especially cover during old age. This plan waiver included for TPD/ CI?

2 . If ILP look for longer sustainable coverage period. Depending you want 1 plan cover ABC or get basic medical plan + Life plan with CI coverage. Many way can design according your situation need. Agent shall advice if they know you well.

3 . Hmm.. not easy to company all companies product because policy design might not using the same cover period options. Example for GE current medical plan we can choose policy till age 70, 80 & 90 only. Roughly check with GE MPOS. Same amount similar coverage sustainable till 71 / 77 age.


Believe this is the plan you talking about .. minimum 5 years contribution term
https://www.ocbc.com.my/OCBCAl_Amin/pb_takaful.shtml

better refer to policy in hand.

I just did a quick read up from their website but limited info, from the look of it, it seems to be an endowment plan that will provide a fixed guaranteed cash payout on a yearly basis between 15% to 20%

Nothing to panic about first of all. But depending on your mom's retirement fund and her usage. The plan may serve to give her a fixed income for the next 13 years as that's the maximum term that the plan will go for.

I will strongly advise her not to do any cancellation as this will make her lose a huge chunk of her money, but instead keep the plan for now as she will be getting a yearly fixed income from it.

However if cash flow is a problem and these is all the money she got and unable to contribute another 50k every year for the next 3 to 5 years then this plan is really not suitable for your mom and you should get her to file a complaint and quickly cancel the policy. You can lodge a complaint to get back the recent RM850,000 on the ground of misspelling of the product from the bank officer.

Again, if you need any further clarification about insurance, feel free to ask and I will try my best to guide you

Yes, i notice the guarantee cash payout. I believe they describe the guarantee cash payout 15% - 20% in this way:-
First year invest 50k, you get 15% "bonus" = 7.5k
2nd to 5th year invest 50k, get 15% "bonus" as well as 7.5k per year
Then 6th year to 13rd year, no need to do investment anymore and they are giving 20% bonus which is 10k
And i done a simple calculation, total contribution had been made is RM250,000
The bonus total for 13 years is (7500 x 5) + (10,000 x 8) = 117,500
Wtf this kind of policy existing in this world
Nvm i ask my another insurance agent to help me to take a look on the policy
Btw sifu sekalian, how do i send my policy for you guys here?

There should be a maturity benefit at the end of the coverage which is after 13 years. The maturity benefit should be ranging around another 130k to 150k ++. Which makes the total = RM117,500 (bonus total) + maturity benefit = Not less than RM250,000 premium paid.

In savings plan, insurance company will guarantee to return all your premiums paid 100% at the end of maturity if I am not mistaken. Any extra return will depend on the fund performance. Generally, savings plan should not be used as a high return investment tool.

Like previous sifu said, savings plan will have a surrender penalty if you terminate the policy before the maturity date and you will definitely lose money before maturity.

If you want to share the policy here, you can just take the picture of the schedule and upload as image here.

This post has been edited by GE-DavidK: Jul 29 2020, 12:38 PM

Hi both sifu, appreciate your time with my matters. I'd attached the policy for your better understanding.
However, just now i went to the OCBC branch and quarrel about the dispute.
The advisor should not recommend such kind of "retirement" product for "retired" women. What use for my mum to invest her retirement fund and get it at 75 years old as another retirement fund?
That is not professional at all.

After my dispute with the branch manager and the service advisor, we came into the outcome:-
First year 50k distribution had been made, can't do anything, they also strongly recommend not to surrender
Yesterday another RM50k of auto direct debit had been happened. Talked to branch manager that we are not intend for investment another RM50k for 2nd year.
They mentioned that this product , the contribution can be decrease to lowest amount that is RM6k per year (for year 2 to year 5)
We both agree with this outcome, but they need a week to work on my withdraw of the RM50k paid on the 2nd year, and continue with RM6k yearly contribution for 2nd year to 5th year, and they need to deal with Headquaters about re calculate the guarantee payout and other tables etc
If the branch manager can come out with this results, i think probably i will just left the monies RM74k in total there, and untouchable for 13 years until 75years old.
Just the matters of, the guarantee payout and total gain after maturity date. (awaiting them for calculation and outcome)

If it doesn't go into this way (RM50k for 2nd years cannot be reverse or etc), probably i will work on another direction, BNM telelink or ombudsman, but i think it's long and hassle way to go.
Appreciate sifu will give me advise after spending your free time on my attached policy table.
 Supreme_I.pdf ( 640.09k ) Number of downloads: 34


Add On: The branch manager and the advisor mentioned that it is possible to decrease the contribution as low as minimum RM6k per year. Now the main dispute is only for the RM50k had been auto debit yesterday, but the Due date is today, and they have to inform us before they done the transaction due to big amount that not everyone can afford

2nd Add On: Please assist to look for the attachment, let say if the contribution is maintained 50k for first 5 years, the total payout upon maturity is how much?
(RM7.5k x 5) + (RM10k x 8) + (RM157,500) + (between RM167500 - RM190,259) = between RM442,500 to RM464,759 ? am i understanding correct?

This post has been edited by lovingforyou: Jul 29 2020, 04:37 PM

hi ikey, hope my reply helps

hi cfc, you may walk in to any RHB branch for this product.

where do you get the term "excess" from?
RHB Medisure Supreme brochure

hi encikbuta, if you see the term "Investment Value", that means this is an ILP plan and yea if you were to surrender it, that is the amount you will get (price based on the day of processing)

Another policy with the term "surrender policy", that will be a non-ILP plan a.k.a traditional plan.

This post has been edited by ckdenion: Jul 29 2020, 04:29 PM

Please do not post misleading statement, this can misled people thinking whatever annual cash back is their interest on capital, which actually is not.

Saving plan never guarantee to return all your premium paid when maturity.

Saving plan only guarantee payout annual cash back + guaranteed maturity benefit/amount + non-guaranteed return (if).

The guaranteed maturity benefit /= total premium paid.

If the saving plan has high annual cash back rate one, the guaranteed maturity benefit highly be much less than total premium paid.

The higher annual cash back you are getting, the potential lower the maturity benefit.

Please always look at the table illustrated in the proposal.

hi loveforyou likely there is some misunderstanding here. this plan need to pay for 5 years (total of RM250k with 50k contribution/year). really sad to know that sometimes bancassurance just sell products without going into proper financial planning for the customers (not trained to do so). i think the best you can do now is to reduce the sum to the lowest which is 6k per annum. not to say this plan doesnt suit for retirement, it still depends on how individual wanna plan for their retirement and what available funds a retiree has.

1. Savings plan can serve multiple purposes here, not only as retirement fund but also as life insurance money and additional accidental coverage. There is a nomination feature in this savings plan product.


2. You may reduce the premium for the subsequent premiums in savings plan. Reducing the annual premium to 6k per year is probably the minimum premium required to start this policy in the first place. For this policy, if your mum has no emergency need for the money, just continue paying the premium for the next 5 years and wait for maturity at the end of 13th year. Terminating this policy at the first year will only be getting back RM22k now out of the RM50k paid as illustrated in the schedule you attached.


3. I will calculate the total payout of this policy here assuming you were to continue RM50k premium yearly.

Total Guaranteed Cash Payment (GCP) After 13 Years: (RM7.5k x 5) + (RM10k + 8) = RM117,500

Maturity Benefit at Year 13:
Worst Case Scenario: This policy guarantees minimum maturity benefit at RM157,500 (No matter how bad the fund performance is) at the page with the illustration table. Total payout: RM117,500 (GCP) + RM157,500 (Minimum Guaranteed Maturity Benefit) = RM275,000.

This figure is the minimum payout you are getting from this policy after the maturity which is guaranteed and it is more than RM250,000 that you have paid. I believe this savings plan policy will guarantee a payout of 110% of premium paid as minimum based on this calculation.

Best Case Scenario: Total payout: RM117,500 (GCP) + RM190,259 (Scenario Y Maturity Benefit) - RM10,000 (This is the GCP at the final year) = RM297,759. This figure is the total payout for the best case scenario. There is a possibility that the fund performance outperform the projected return, although this is extremely unlikely. Again, savings plan should not be used as a high return investment tool.

I am sorry that this has happened to you and I have personally assisted a few of my friends to cancel their savings plan half way because they thought savings plan can promise them high return than other investment funds.

This post has been edited by GE-DavidK: Jul 29 2020, 07:35 PM

-deleted

This post has been edited by GE-DavidK: Jul 29 2020, 07:22 PM

No, the cash value not so high one la for endowment especially only 13 years tenure.

As I've already replied you earlier, the objective of buying the plan must be clear. Otherwise you are going to make noise in here about buying a wrong plan.

To cut the lengthy reply. If you're agreeable to reduce your premium contribution and the insurance company allow you to do so, then you will have no choice but to lock in that money to cut losses. Otherwise the plan may not suit your mom's retirement need if you continue to pay 50k yearly for the next 3 coming years.

This sort of plan is not here to grow your mom's wealth especially your mom is already way over her retirement to further accumulate any wealth but more on sustaining her monthly cash flow as her daily expenses.

I won't be even bothered to argue about the cash value or returns of the plan when in the first place the plan feature doesn't suit hat your mom thought she was looking for.

I've done some calculation that if she did a similar investment of 50k yearly payment for 5 years and stagger it for 13 years, her potential wealth would have grew to RM476,000 or if she has existing 250k then she would be able to generate RM15,000 annually if the ROI is 6%.

This post has been edited by lifebalance: Jul 29 2020, 08:14 PM

Thanks for your kind reply. I'd much understanding now.
I'd referred to my mum, and she is agree that if total contribution is 74k (50k at the first year, then 6k for subsequent 4 years), she still can accept under the condition of the payout during maturity is still guarantee not less then the amount she paid.

So currently i could only able to wait for the bank branch manager to work on it and hope it'll be going this way.
If things happened and couldn't smooth going to this way of solution, guess i will take action about refunding all the policy monies, due to the agent advisor is pretend not professional and misrepresentation to my mum, and didn't did his job like query my mum about it'll be total 250k of investment or other reminder, again it's not small value.

I'd dispute with the bank with another point, they didn't basic check and query on my mum financial situation and simply make these things happened. So yesterday RM50k had been debit from my mum saving account. And now my mum don't had additional money to pay next year of RM50k contribution. So we have to loan from bank to pay contribution? The agent never mentioned these things and did about survey to my mum financial situation. I'll bite on this point and make this matters bigger if things doesn't go to total contribution of RM74k.
It's ridiculous plan especially such a huge contribution yearly and didn't confirm if their customer had the ability to pay.

If any other have better solution how to settle this things, kindly let me know. (currently waiting the branch manager outcome for withdraw the 2nd year contribution refund RM50k, then revise the proposal and plan to RM6k yearly from year 2 to year 5, and this solution is both party agree)
Just incase things doesn't go on this way, what can i do anymore?

Well you have no other way other than to lodge a complaint and see how far you can go.

In the court of law, you have to proof that the banker told your mom otherwise; as well as the banker need to tell their side of story. So far we’ve only heard from your side of your story so it’s only fair that the banker who sold the policy tell theirs.

All the best.

Yes, i understand these basic of things.
My mum still kept the draft used waste paper, hand wrote by the service advisor. I can prove that it can be lead to my mum about the misunderstanding.
I'd notice to the branch manager about, i'll lodge a police report and do whatever i can do, just the matters of how far i can go.
I believe they're considering about their branch reputation and etc and trying to solve and minimize it.
So, probably i would just wait and see after a week.

Do lodge a complaint to BNM https://www.bnm.gov.my/index.php?lang=en&ch...mplaint_redress.

The branch tends to be more considerate especially when BNM and bank HQ are involved especially in the case of a senior citizen.

This post has been edited by Ray2021: Jul 30 2020, 09:16 AM

Thank you for your efforts.
I shall wait the outcome from branch manager and see what to do next.
Appreciate

Not only more considerate, they will act with lightning speed too 😂😂😂

For the same premium, you should try for a higher life coverage unless your prefered the lower coverage.

This post has been edited by Cyclopes: Jul 30 2020, 01:28 PM

hi lovingforyou, on the bolded statement above, most bank agents (aka bancassurance, BANCA) are not in the position to go through proper financial planning with the customers. the way they approach is more on product selling approach. im not sure whether they can refund you the 50k (2nd payment) or not. the best they can do now is alter the plan to make the following payments to 6000 per annum and refund the extra value in the account (might not be 50k, only the system can determine the amount to be refunded).

btw im curious on what the service advisor drafted on the piece of paper. is there any proof that the advisor is the one do the sketching on that paper?

It wrote something like 6000 x 15% = 900 interest 1st year
6000 x 15% = 900 interest 2nd year
3rd, 4th, 5th
Total interest you earn for first 5 years is 75%
Than my mum wow, such a good deal, where find
At the beginning, my mum wish to intend a total RM50k (she assume RM10k first year, 10k 2nd year, 3rd - 5th), and proceed it with one goal RM50k, yeepy, just left it there 5 years, wait 5 years maturity then she will get RM50k plus yearly 15% (1.5k interest), 50k for 5 years for another type of "FD" (my mum thought it's new style of FD), it will become 50k plus 37,500 interest (total 87500), great deal right?

At the end it become RM50k yearly contribution. And the most terrible part is, my mum hate 'insurance'. She always murmur beside me yearly regarding that she bought a yearly 6k annual premium medical+ life + lil bit of saving, and thinking to surrender every year to save back the 6k 'spending'
Imagine, sounds ridiculous but it does happen

During my dispute with the advisor, i keep focus on this point, did you really expect my mum understand, especially they use those wording that uneducated senior that won't understand, ex. like circumstances, but not mentioning situation.

The draft paper wrote by the agent, i left it in my office together with the policy.
Probably i try to post it here on Monday due tomorrow's holiday and im not working during weekend.

just 15% pa,,,
recently there was a plan offer at 30% pa too on a recent thread.
(if you look at the image posted in post 17,...this 30%pa "guaranteed income per year" is for 20 yrs while paying just for 6 yrs only)

check that out for further info on discussion made regarding that plan....
hope you could read comments posted there so that you could gather some added info...
Wealth Booster Plan, Investment Scheme
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4977858/all

try read post 46 of that thread for my thought on those plans.

This post has been edited by MUM: Jul 30 2020, 10:34 PM