margin account sure kena...

For ibkr/tradestation cash account you can day trade as long as you have settled cash as many times as you want. There is no free riding problem with ibkr as you cannot trade with unsettled cash at all.

Day trading rules applies for margin accounts. If you make 4 or more day trades within 5 trading days for the first time, you can email the customer service and ask for leniency. This only applies for the first time. The limit is per brokerage.

Some people have multiple margin accounts to take advantage of day trading rules. Since tda SG is moving to zero comission based, you can have ibkr/tda sg and maybe e*trade for multiple margin accounts

Day trading is a high risk move and most people loose money over time.

This post has been edited by kaiserreich: Jul 31 2020, 09:28 AM

PDT rule should apply to both cash and margin.
It should be nothing to do with whether your cash is settled or not but rather the act of day trading.

If you day trade, the rule applies to you. That's it.
The only way to bypass is to have >$25k NLV.

Margin account should also be hit if your account is <$25k NLV.

Pdt rule dont apply for cash account la. There is that unsettled cash problem with other brokers but IBKR just locks the cash till it is settled.

I have day traded as many times as i wanted on IBKR (from tradestation) without getting flagged/email etc.

You're right. I just checked what people say online.

Earlier I thought should apply to cash account too because IBKR's definition of PDT is:

Pattern Day Trader: someone who effects 4 or more Day Trades within a 5 business day period. A trader who executes 4 or more day trades in this time is deemed to be exhibiting a ‘pattern’ of day trading and is thereafter subject to the PDT restrictions.

Let's say my cash account has $10,000 which is below the required $25,000.
In the same day, I perform the following transaction:
1) Buy 1 unit of Amazon at $3000
2) Sell 1 unit of Amazon at $3001
3) Buy 1 unit of Amazon at $2999
4) Sell 1 unit of Amazon at $3002
5) Buy 1 unit of Amazon at $2998
6) Sell 1 unit of Amazon at $3003

By doing this, it's considered day trading according to IBKR's definition but I guess FINRA doesn't consider this as day trading.

hmmmm....

https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=26658

if I have $10k in cash account ...and each trade $1k...I "should" be allowed to daytrade 10x since its all my cash... but t+2 means I can't daytrade again until the 4th day when my cash is settled again.

main purpose of pdt is to restrict ppl with $500 margin account from making unlimited $1k trades...which is what all punters wants...

from finra..."Summary of the Day-Trading Margin Requirements - The rules adopt the term "pattern day trader," which includes any margin customer that day trades (buys then sells or sells short then buys the same security on the same day) four or more times in five business days, provided the number of day trades are more than six percent of the customer's total trading activity for that same five-day period." ... the rule is all about specifying margin requirements of $25k and the mechanics of determining who to apply... hence the interpretation that it doesn't applying to cash account since it doesn't use margin

PDT.
In & out of a position on the same day. Round trade. Count = 1
Buy 1 or few stocks few times a day for positional ovn = no count

Hi Fellow Gurus,

I am an absolute newbie in IBKR

I am a StashAway Investor, and adding IBKR into my portfolio to directly purchase some ETFs
Just want to get my numbers right.

Currently, StashAway has a 0.8%p.a charge , with 0.2% ETF expense ratio p.a. and a one-time 0.1% currrency conversion.
https://www.stashaway.my/pricing

Let's use RM5000 Buy and Hold for 5years as an example,

StashAway

RM5000 x (0.8% + 0.2% + 0.1%) = RM50/per annum + RM5 conversion fee

5 years (RM55 1st year + (RM 50 x 4years) ) = RM255 in fees


IBKR + TSG

The flow : MYR Bank > Instarem > SGD in IBKR > USD in IBKR > Purchase ETF in IBKR

Instarem transfer : RM 5000 > SGD : Fees Roughly RM25
SGD.USD Pair in IBKR : Exchange Fees USD2 ~ RM8.50
Buy ETF Fees : USD 1.5 ~ RM6.5

Total Fees : RM40

5 Years (RM 40 1st Year + (RM0 x4 year) ) = RM 40

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Above scenario has not considered withdrawals, but for simplicity sake, I would just take the same RM40 fees in IBKR example.

My other variable is :

Stashaway : Converts MYR to USD directly , den reverse when withdraw

IBKR : Convertys MYR to SGD + SGD to USD , den reverse when withdraw

Summary,

short of the conversion rate risks, IBKR is the clear winner in terms of fees. Or am i missing something ?
Feel free to copy paste the calculation and fix it accordingly.

I will still remain invested in StashAway, but also exploring other options.

Any input is welcome

Thanks guys

yep your understanding for lumpsump, but if you practise DCA, then your IBKR fee will be with higher fee and different calculation

You should be more concerned about the asset return rather than the fees.
In other words, whether Stashaway can give you higher % per year or the ETF you choose can give higher % per year.
Then, calculate the return on a net basis (return - fees). Express it as a %.

I don't use Stashaway but their portfolio is definitely different from the ETF you buy at IBKR.
They probably mix a few ETFs together with bonds. Meanwhile, you're buying just 1 ETF.

Both are different, one is robo-advisor, another is ETF.

I think StashAway allocates your investment into ETFs of different classes or regions (US, Asia ex Japan, tech, healthcare, gold, bond etc) and will constantly optimise the allocation according to their algorithm.

While ETF in your example is just single region / class ETF? It depends what you want.

Fee wise, self DIY on one or a few ETFs should be cheaper.

Hi sifus, newbie here,

Has anyone gotten trading permission for "complex or leveraged products (CLP)"? It seems like the requirement is quite high.

I configured my account to include trading CLP and it says to wait 24 hrs.
24 hrs has passed and I'm still barred from trading CLPs. How do I know it's been approved/not approved?

Thanks!

after sold the stock, need to wait how many day to get the cash?

T+2

Just wondering, usually how long does it take to get whitelable IBKR account approved (funded)?

If you upload all the required documents and fund it, you can get within a day. I got mine the very next day.

2 days for me.

Yeah you're comparing buying just ONE ETF, whereas SA has many ETFs. If you follow the exact same distribution of ETFs as SA costs would increase. And like someone else mentioned, this is for lump sum, if DCA cost would also increase.
For the record, I use both SA & IBKR

This post has been edited by mr_tuzki: Aug 5 2020, 03:39 AM

Sifu here. I'll help answer your question.

Before you apply for trading permission on an additional security/product, make sure you have met the requirements needed. For CLPs, the requirements according to IBKR are:

"In the case of Complex & Leveraged Products, you must have a Good or Extensive Knowledge Level for stocks and options, or stocks and futures, or take a test."

Additionally, they require you to have a certain amount of liquid net worth and income according to your age. For age 31 to 40, liquid net worth should be at least $50k and income at least $45k.

Once you have submitted the permission request, on the account permissions main page, the link "request for permission" next to the product should have been replaced with a greyed out "global". That means it's pending. If it still shows "request for trading permission", then you have not submitted the request yet.

It usually takes less than 24 hrs on a weekday, but because of the influx of noobs like you to platforms like IBKR and robinhood, there might be delays.

Good luck, boy!